IH 2405b industrial tractor

[kvelders017]

Anyone have a 2405b I'm having a hydraulic flow issue between the cooler and the small manifold for the brakes

 

[jwal10]

2405b is a 2400b with a utility loader mounted from the factory. 2400b is a utility tractor, based on a 464 IH utility tractor. It is not the heavy duty skip loader 2410b model. There was also a 2412b with loader and backhoe. I have several 454 tractors and a couple 2400, they are nearly the same, just model older. Check here on this site for recommended fixes. Been so long I don't remember all of them. but there are small screens in the lines. I know the lines need to run up hill to the screens/orifices then gently downhill to the brakes on the 454's. Make sure orifices are clean and manipulate the lines if they have gotten bent or sagged. If I remember right some models have it's own reservoir for the brakes, but I just can't remember due, to bad brain fog.sorry....James

TractorData.com International Harvester 2400B industrial tractor information

www.tractordata.com

TractorData.com International Harvester 2405B industrial tractor attachments information

www.tractordata.com

 

[kvelders017]

2405b is a 2400b with a utility loader mounted from the factory. 2400 is a utility tractor, based on a 464 IH utility tractor. It is not the heavy duty skip loader 2410 model. There was also a 2412 with loader and backhoe. I have several 454 tractors and a couple 2400, they are nearly the same, just model older. Check here on this site for recommended fixes. Been so long I don't remember all of them. but there are small screens in the lines. I know the lines need to run up hill to the screens/orifices then gently downhill to the brakes on the 454's. Make sure orifices are clean and manipulate the lines if they have gotten bent or sagged. If I remember right some models have it's own reservoir for the brakes, but I just can't remember due, to bad brain fog.sorry....James

Thanks I'll check it out it's pulling vacuum on the return line back in to the trans housing where it should be some pressure could I have a clogged line

 

[jwal10]

Not much pressure, mostly just gravity flow. Could be leaking down at brakes. I have removed the screens/orifices and run for testing to check flow to there, with tractor running. Leave end of line at orifices open and make sure there is flow up to orifices. Orifices are up around battery area. Important that lines, from there, down to brakes have gentle downward flow or they get air in the lines and lose gravity flow. If you have flow, the brakes should pump up and work, if not the brakes might just be leaking through. Check those screen for plugging or something in the orifice, that hole is very small. Best to not pump brakes much, when tractor is not running....James

 

[kvelders017]

Not much pressure, mostly just gravity flow. Could be leaking down at brakes. I have removed the screens/orifices and run for testing to check flow to there, with tractor running. Leave end of line at orifices open and make sure there is flow up to orifices. Orifices are up around battery area. Important that lines, from there, down to brakes have gentle downward flow or they get air in the lines and lose gravity flow. If you have flow, the brakes should pump up and work, if not the brakes might just be leaking through. Check those screen for plugging or something in the orifice, that hole is very small. Best to not pump brakes much, when tractor is not running....James

My brakes appear to be Fed from the oil cooler line for the hydraulic forward and reverse not sure if a line got crossed I got it on trade from a guy that was working on it the lack of flow also seems to be affecting my forward and reverse when the clutch pack bites it's solid but seems as though it loses pressure after a few seconds also thanks for the info my first tractor of this style so everything is a learning curve for me

 

[jwal10]

Yes oil is fed to the orifice/screen, then gravity mostly. Well, the ones I worked on, never had a shuttle shift. I do have a hydro 454, can't remember about the brakes being different, don't remember ever working on those brakes. And as I said, I seem to remember a different style also, with small brake cyl's? of some kind, instead of orifices, on some models when questions asked about brake problems, many years ago on this forum.

May need to check pressures, sounds like maybe a pressure problem. Also may help in diagnosing, if you do have flow at orifices or not. I am not sure if the clutches in shuttle are hydraulically held with pressure or just actuated with pressure. The brakes do not take much flow but the line to the orifices has quite a bit when left open and the tractor is run at 1000rpm but not much through the orifice. Does the oil look good, new filter....James

 

[kvelders017]

Yes oil is fed to the orifice/screen, then gravity mostly. Well, the ones I worked on, never had a shuttle shift. I do have a hydro 454, can't remember about the brakes being different, don't remember ever working on those brakes. And as I said, I seem to remember a different style also, with small brake cyl's? of some kind, instead of orifices, on some models when questions asked about brake problems, many years ago on this forum....James

Appreciate it I'll be looking into it when I get a chance

 

[kvelders017]

Also looking for information on the valve body on the underside of the transmission is there multiple check balls or just the one on the side

 

[JimB2]

Hi do you have a service manual for the IH 454, 464 and the 2400?
Free download of IH Service Manuals from link below:

D239 / 674 Engine Manual pdf

------------------------------------ Post updated with links to the engine manuals, thanks Oleman! I've run these through text recognition; can be searched in PDF now. ------------------------------------ Hi Folks, Trying to find a PDF copy of the D239 engine manual for my 674, need to replace th...

www.redpowermagazine.com

Notes: This series of IH tractors were built in the IH plant in Doncaster, UK, if Diesel, engine was built in the IH plant in Neuss, Germany.
Some units could have been shipped in a crate and final assembly performed in the IH plant in Louisville, KY, USA.
If you download the IH Service Manuals from link above, the measurements are in Imperial Gallons not USA Gallons.

See photo below of hydraulic flow, you indicated that your 2405B had the FWD-REV option, it is similar to diagram below but where it says Torque Amplifier(T/A) that is where the FWD-REV is located. The difference between T/A and FWD-REV is, T/A only uses high pressure oil from pump in the bottom of torque tube to engage the HI side clutch pack and the LO side is engaged by Belleville washer pressure. The FWD-REV clutch packs require high pressure oil to engage both FWD and REV clutch packs. The usual problem is the bolts that hold part of the REV clutch pack thru the cage come loose or break causing loss of REV clutch pack pressure. Using a pressure gauge there is a test in the IH Service Manual for checking the pressures and leak down.
Simple things first make sure the hydraulic filter is clean and the parts installed correctly in the canister and no air leaks around the filter canister. Hydraulic oil is at the proper level, check procedure is, tractor level, run for 3 minutes @ 1500 RPM, shut off engine and check hydraulic dipstick, must be above the Hash mark and if it has the Aux hydraulic pump under right foot rest there should be another scribe mark on the dipstick higher up for full level.
Other things to check are, is there a 3PT hitch on your 2405B? If so does it work properly as the Flow Divider in the bottom of the MCV Valve is supposed to split the 10 GPM flow from the main hydraulic pump into 3 GPM for PS and 7 GPM for 3 PT and other hydraulics. Now since your tractor is the Industrial 2405B it may have a larger capacity main hydraulic pump 12 GPM or 17 GPM and additional hydraulic pump under the right foot rest. The other test to do is check the flow through the oil cooler to be about 3 GPM @ 1500 to 1800 RPM as if a spring breaks in the Oil Cooler Bypass Valve in the MCV it will allow the oil to return to the main pump without going thru the oil cooler to feed the brake system and the FWD-REV pump.

Hope this helps
JimB

 

[kvelders017]

Hi do you have a service manual for the IH 454, 464 and the 2400?
Free download of IH Service Manuals from link below:

D239 / 674 Engine Manual pdf

------------------------------------ Post updated with links to the engine manuals, thanks Oleman! I've run these through text recognition; can be searched in PDF now. ------------------------------------ Hi Folks, Trying to find a PDF copy of the D239 engine manual for my 674, need to replace th...

www.redpowermagazine.com

Notes: This series of IH tractors were built in the IH plant in Doncaster, UK, if Diesel, engine was built in the IH plant in Neuss, Germany.
Some units could have been shipped in a crate and final assembly performed in the IH plant in Louisville, KY, USA.
If you download the IH Service Manuals from link above, the measurements are in Imperial Gallons not USA Gallons.

See photo below of hydraulic flow, you indicated that your 2405B had the FWD-REV option, it is similar to diagram below but where it says Torque Amplifier(T/A) that is where the FWD-REV is located. The difference between T/A and FWD-REV is, T/A only uses high pressure oil from pump in the bottom of torque tube to engage the HI side clutch pack and the LO side is engaged by Belleville washer pressure. The FWD-REV clutch packs require high pressure oil to engage both FWD and REV clutch packs. The usual problem is the bolts that hold part of the REV clutch pack thru the cage come loose or break causing loss of REV clutch pack pressure. Using a pressure gauge there is a test in the IH Service Manual for checking the pressures and leak down.
Simple things first make sure the hydraulic filter is clean and the parts installed correctly in the canister and no air leaks around the filter canister. Hydraulic oil is at the proper level, check procedure is, tractor level, run for 3 minutes @ 1500 RPM, shut off engine and check hydraulic dipstick, must be above the Hash mark and if it has the Aux hydraulic pump under right foot rest there should be another scribe mark on the dipstick higher up for full level.
Other things to check are, is there a 3PT hitch on your 2405B? If so does it work properly as the Flow Divider in the bottom of the MCV Valve is supposed to split the 10 GPM flow from the main hydraulic pump into 3 GPM for PS and 7 GPM for 3 PT and other hydraulics. Now since your tractor is the Industrial 2405B it may have a larger capacity main hydraulic pump 12 GPM or 17 GPM and additional hydraulic pump under the right foot rest. The other test to do is check the flow through the oil cooler to be about 3 GPM @ 1500 to 1800 RPM as if a spring breaks in the Oil Cooler Bypass Valve in the MCV it will allow the oil to return to the main pump without going thru the oil cooler to feed the brake system and the FWD-REV pump.

Hope this helps
JimB



View attachment 108227

It does thank you

 

[kvelders017]

Big thank you to those who took the time to give me information turns out it was the safety relief valve for the power steering return line that feeds the PTO and f/r pump