IH 300 U Engine to Bellhousing Issues

[rshepard2278]

I have a custom built backhoe attachment for my tractor but I'm running into some issues...as I may be putting too much weight on it. I did make some adjustments to where the 3point connects to the backhoe so that it gets better leverage than in the picture. I moved the backhoe about a foot closer to the tractor. That said, when I went to lift it the first time, I heard some very expensive noises (screeching/squealing) coming from the engine bellhousing area. I let the backhoe down and noticed that I could see daylight through the other side of the frame/bellhousing and engine (see 2nd image).

I checked the two bolts at the top of the bellhousing into the engine...well they weren't the original bolts. One of the many previous owners put threaded rods in there with nuts on the end...who knows where the bolts went. Both were loose and this probably explains why the starter would spin and have a hard time engaging.

I ended up tightening about another 1/2 inch of threads...until I realized the threaded rod on the left was just spinning but the one on the right is solid. Now I'm not sure what to do. I've watched a few videos on engine removal but nothing that shows in detail how many bolts hold the frame to the engine and where they're located. Both manuals I have (Operators and the repair manual you get at farm stores) don't have this info either.

My question is can this tractor support approximately 1,200-1,500lbs on a Fast Hitch w/3 point connections?

If so what options do I have to quickly get this going?

My first thought is to build custom frame supports to connect the transmission/frame to the front in order to stiffen things up for heavier loads...has anyone seen anything like that?

I understand the proper fix will be removing the threaded rods, splitting the engine/transmission, tapping new threads, and using the proper the bolts. Additionally, I have the feeling splitting them will be opening a huge can of expensive and time consuming worms...which I just don't have the time this season to do.

Should I just sell it and get a bigger tractor?

 

[used red MN]

Hello rshepard welcome to YT! For the most part if bell housing was bolted tightly to the engine with the proper fasteners those tractors rarely had a problem with coming loose. I have mainly been around the Farmall 300 row crop versions that had additional side channel frames on each side of the engine so maybe this is more of a problem with utility tractors. I can say that I believe you are the first to bring it up on this forum that I recall over the 12 years I have been on here. The fact that it was most likely loose to begin with and put together with hokie all thread probably explains why you had this problem. Even accounting for the fact that you moved the hoe attachment a foot closer than in the picture that hoe is going to put a lot of stresses on the tractor that the original designers probably didn’t plan on.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Forget "quickly." Only way you're going to know what was damaged is to split the tractor.

The tractor was clearly already damaged. At least some of the holes in the casting are clearly stripped out. The wrong fasteners were used to put the tractor back together. "Threaded rod" is way too soft for this application.

You can't just "tap new threads." There are many ways to repair threads, inserts, "heli-coils," weld/drill/tap, etc. but the fix depends on the condition of the existing hole and how much material is around it. It may come down to replacing the entire casting with one that has good holes in it.

Also forget that backhoe. It's way too huge and hangs way too far off the back of the tractor. Look at purpose built backhoes. The hoe is right behind the rear wheels, not half the length of the tractor. It's not just the weight either. Digging can put thousands of pounds of additional pressure on the tractor. I don't know what that unit was meant for but it was not meant to hang off a tractor 3pt.

 

[used red MN]

which I just don't have the time this season to do.

Should I just sell it and get a bigger tractor?

What is the plan for this machine “this season” what kind of work are you going to do with this tractor, personal property or business? Can’t offer opinion on getting a different machine without more of the story.

 

[Janicholson]

I own a 350U and have had implements on it that floated the front tires in the air quite often. They are tough utilities! But that back hoe is not only pulling the TA section away from the engine, it is loading it the opposite as well. Not appropriate for that tractor. A poor design and it really needs to be sold to someone with a tractor 2 to 3 times bigger. (whom you do not know, and sold as is no guarantee or suitability for any purpose. A used purpose built back hoe is the correct answer. Jim

 

[rshepard2278]

What is the plan for this machine “this season” what kind of work are you going to do with this tractor, personal property or business? Can’t offer opinion on getting a different machine without more of the story.

Thanks for the reply and sharing your knowledge. I'm interested in what you said about the side channels on the row crop model (I'll see if I can find some images online). I recently bought the tractor from some kid that inherited it with some land he got from his grandfather. He wasn't very forthcoming with information on what he did to it....now I know why.

As for this season, I have some personal property that I need to clear, grade, dig for a septic tank, and hopefully pour a foundation before the snow files and ground freezes (I live in N. MI.). I'm trying to DIY as much of my house build/utility setup as I can.

I found a better video of splitting the engine (

) where his tractor also has the same threaded rods (see screenshot of video).

I'm thinking someone did a very shotty rebuild on the motor, or maybe a clutch swap, and rigged it back together. I was always concerned from the start that the tractor wouldn't hold the weight...but I got great deal on both the backhoe ($1,000) and 300U w/loader ($400 and a handful of solar panels). Both needed repairs but nothing outside of my capabilities...and help from these forums!!!

My plan now is to take it easy on the tractor until I have time to fix it correctly. As for the backhoe, I'm debating on turning it into a self-powered towable unit. Again, that will take a while since I work full time and only have nights/weekends free...might have to put my house plans on hold till next year.

 

[rustred]

I have a custom built backhoe attachment for my tractor but I'm running into some issues...as I may be putting too much weight on it. I did make some adjustments to where the 3point connects to the backhoe so that it gets better leverage than in the picture. I moved the backhoe about a foot closer to the tractor. That said, when I went to lift it the first time, I heard some very expensive noises (screeching/squealing) coming from the engine bellhousing area. I let the backhoe down and noticed that I could see daylight through the other side of the frame/bellhousing and engine (see 2nd image).

I checked the two bolts at the top of the bellhousing into the engine...well they weren't the original bolts. One of the many previous owners put threaded rods in there with nuts on the end...who knows where the bolts went. Both were loose and this probably explains why the starter would spin and have a hard time engaging.

I ended up tightening about another 1/2 inch of threads...until I realized the threaded rod on the left was just spinning but the one on the right is solid. Now I'm not sure what to do. I've watched a few videos on engine removal but nothing that shows in detail how many bolts hold the frame to the engine and where they're located. Both manuals I have (Operators and the repair manual you get at farm stores) don't have this info either.

My question is can this tractor support approximately 1,200-1,500lbs on a Fast Hitch w/3 point connections?

If so what options do I have to quickly get this going?

My first thought is to build custom frame supports to connect the transmission/frame to the front in order to stiffen things up for heavier loads...has anyone seen anything like that?

I understand the proper fix will be removing the threaded rods, splitting the engine/transmission, tapping new threads, and using the proper the bolts. Additionally, I have the feeling splitting them will be opening a huge can of expensive and time consuming worms...which I just don't have the time this season to do.

Should I just sell it and get a bigger tractor?



View attachment 122407View attachment 122406

Someone had a bad dream when they came up with this setup. The camels back is broken. Totally way too light of a tractor for that setup. I see it has a pto hyd pump but even so I’m sure them hyd. Are going to be slow. And even though it has outriggers on the hoe I don’t think it’s going to be satisfactory holding the unit from moving around. I don’t even see the swing on it, Reminds me of my dog catching a gopher the other day when I was plowing and she shook the heck out of it to kill it. Those tractors are a poor design and even with a front end loader on them is another bad idea. Scrap or sell that setup and get an actual backhoe that’s built for the job. Then if you don’t need it when done it can be sold.

 

[rshepard2278]

Forget "quickly." Only way you're going to know what was damaged is to split the tractor.

The tractor was clearly already damaged. At least some of the holes in the casting are clearly stripped out. The wrong fasteners were used to put the tractor back together. "Threaded rod" is way too soft for this application.

You can't just "tap new threads." There are many ways to repair threads, inserts, "heli-coils," weld/drill/tap, etc. but the fix depends on the condition of the existing hole and how much material is around it. It may come down to replacing the entire casting with one that has good holes in it.

Also forget that backhoe. It's way too huge and hangs way too far off the back of the tractor. Look at purpose built backhoes. The hoe is right behind the rear wheels, not half the length of the tractor. It's not just the weight either. Digging can put thousands of pounds of additional pressure on the tractor. I don't know what that unit was meant for but it was not meant to hang off a tractor 3pt.

It was definitely neglected and in rough shape when I got it. In my reply to @used red MN, I shared images from a video where someone else had threaded rods in their 300U. I agree that it's definitely the wrong fastener for the job. Those bolts are a crucial structural component.

As for the backhoe, it's a custom one-off backyard build that I found on FB marketplace. I think it was intended for a cat 1 or cat 2 hitch. I had a strong feeling the backhoe would be too much even after I moved the mounts so that it's closer to the tractor.

I'm going to see if I can find some frame rails that'll fit to reenforce the frame. As for the backhoe, I'm going to keep it and I'm leaning toward converting it to a self-powered towable unit...and use the tractor for other stuff.

 

[rshepard2278]

I own a 350U and have had implements on it that floated the front tires in the air quite often. They are tough utilities! But that back hoe is not only pulling the TA section away from the engine, it is loading it the opposite as well. Not appropriate for that tractor. A poor design and it really needs to be sold to someone with a tractor 2 to 3 times bigger. (whom you do not know, and sold as is no guarantee or suitability for any purpose. A used purpose built back hoe is the correct answer. Jim

Yeah, I was a little over ambitious with this setup (bought them separately). I think they still be useful albeit not together.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Swing cylinder behind out rigger. That whole thing looks way too far away from the tractor.

 

[rshepard2278]

Someone had a bad dream when they came up with this setup. The camels back is broken. Totally way too light of a tractor for that setup. I see it has a pto hyd pump but even so I’m sure them hyd. Are going to be slow. And even though it has outriggers on the hoe I don’t think it’s going to be satisfactory holding the unit from moving around. I don’t even see the swing on it, Reminds me of my dog catching a gopher the other day when I was plowing and she shook the heck out of it to kill it. Those tractors are a poor design and even with a front end loader on them is another bad idea. Scrap or sell that setup and get an actual backhoe that’s built for the job. Then if you don’t need it when done it can be sold.

Actually, I was very surprised how well the hydros worked on the backhoe. I had to ease into the level when moving it or the outriggers would slam up/down. I was able to get almost a full bucket in one scoop. The PTO on the 300U took it like a champ. Cheap spools though but I couldn't turn it down for the price ($1,000).

The pivot is here (see pic) but it's hard to see in the image.

View attachment 122527

 

[rustred]

Actually, I was very surprised how well the hydros worked on the backhoe. I had to ease into the level when moving it or the outriggers would slam up/down. I was able to get almost a full bucket in one scoop. The PTO on the 300U took it like a champ. Cheap spools though but I couldn't turn it down for the price ($1,000).

The pivot is here (see pic) but it's hard to see in the image.

View attachment 122527

View attachment 122529

View attachment 122531

I can see it now. Restrictors can be installed in those cyl. Lines to prevent the slamming

 

[rshepard2278]

Swing cylinder behind out rigger. That whole thing looks way too far away from the tractor.

Yes, completely agree...hence why I moved it about a foot closer. Here's a newer image of backhoe actually up on the tractor. I could probably transport it without the bucket and arm attached to the backhoe. Then use the loader to pick up the bucket and arm....but that would be a huge pain. When I lower the backhoe down onto some cribbing and put the outriggers down, the backhoe works well enough for what I need.

 

[rshepard2278]

I can see it now. Restrictors can be installed in those cyl. Lines to prevent the slamming

I'll have to look into that. I was thinking of extending the levers on the spools to give me a little more speed control.

I've been really trying to figure out how to make this work. I've been toying with the idea of making the backhoe into a self-powered, towable unit...but I'm not sure if I can get the weight/proportions right so that I can dig properly.

I've seen a couple of videos of barn find 300 utilities with backhoe attachments (links below). The one in the barn definitely shows a solid frame connector from front to back. The other video shows a loader with a wrap around frame mount that connects both front and rear (has both factory loader and hoe). In both videos the buckets/boom/arm weight just as much, if not more, than mine. The main difference, compared to mine, is that both rely on the tractor's pump/tank with the pump moved to run off the front of the crank.

With that in mind, I'm thinking that I could delete the tank on my backhoe. That will give me the clearance to bring the backhoe even closer and reduce the weight at the same time. As for the hydraulics, I can attempt to still use the PTO pump and plumb it into the tank under the seat. If I use a larger diameter low side line, I can get more volume without having to increase the tank size. Even if I need to increase total tank volume, that will be a problem for future-me.

I think if I can reduce the backhoe weight, fast hitch positioning closer to the tractor, and add front/rear frame connections, I can make it work.

 

[rustred]

I'll have to look into that. I was thinking of extending the levers on the spools to give me a little more speed control.

I've been really trying to figure out how to make this work. I've been toying with the idea of making the backhoe into a self-powered, towable unit...but I'm not sure if I can get the weight/proportions right so that I can dig properly.

I've seen a couple of videos of barn find 300 utilities with backhoe attachments (links below). The one in the barn definitely shows a solid frame connector from front to back. The other video shows a loader with a wrap around frame mount that connects both front and rear (has both factory loader and hoe). In both videos the buckets/boom/arm weight just as much, if not more, than mine. The main difference, compared to mine, is that both rely on the tractor's pump/tank with the pump moved to run off the front of the crank.

With that in mind, I'm thinking that I could delete the tank on my backhoe. That will give me the clearance to bring the backhoe even closer and reduce the weight at the same time. As for the hydraulics, I can attempt to still use the PTO pump and plumb it into the tank under the seat. If I use a larger diameter low side line, I can get more volume without having to increase the tank size. Even if I need to increase total tank volume, that will be a problem for future-me.

I think if I can reduce the backhoe weight, fast hitch positioning closer to the tractor, and add front/rear frame connections, I can make it work.

This is all
It takes , a couple of Parker flown control valves then u can set the cyl speed with the knob. Easy fast simple. Pull your lever and it will
Only move as fast as u
have the valve set.

 

[rustred]

J u might be needing that much oil volume for all them cylinders . But yes getting it closer would be better and moving the hyd tank. Ideally a bigger tractor would be worth the experiment also. But that’s what u got to work with. Making and running a frame under the tractor would make it more solid also.

 

[rshepard2278]

This is all
It takes , a couple of Parker flown control valves then u can set the cyl speed with the knob. Easy fast simple. Pull your lever and it will
Only move as fast as u
have the valve set.

Appreciate the info, thanks. I was a car mechanic in a previous life but hydraulics are new to me.

 

[rustred]

Appreciate the info, thanks. I was a car mechanic in a previous life but hydraulics are new to me.

Appreciate the info, thanks. . I was a car mechanic in a previous life but hydraulics are new to me.t

I
Must have forgot the photo of them.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Thanks for the reply and sharing your knowledge. I'm interested in what you said about the side channels on the row crop model (I'll see if I can find some images online). I recently bought the tractor from some kid that inherited it with some land he got from his grandfather. He wasn't very forthcoming with information on what he did to it....now I know why.

As for this season, I have some personal property that I need to clear, grade, dig for a septic tank, and hopefully pour a foundation before the snow files and ground freezes (I live in N. MI.). I'm trying to DIY as much of my house build/utility setup as I can.

I found a better video of splitting the engine (

) where his tractor also has the same threaded rods (see screenshot of video).

I'm thinking someone did a very shotty rebuild on the motor, or maybe a clutch swap, and rigged it back together. I was always concerned from the start that the tractor wouldn't hold the weight...but I got great deal on both the backhoe ($1,000) and 300U w/loader ($400 and a handful of solar panels). Both needed repairs but nothing outside of my capabilities...and help from these forums!!!

My plan now is to take it easy on the tractor until I have time to fix it correctly. As for the backhoe, I'm debating on turning it into a self-powered towable unit. Again, that will take a while since I work full time and only have nights/weekends free...might have to put my house plans on hold till next year.

View attachment 122497

Making the backhoe a towable unit is a good plan. You can still power it with the PTO, you'll just need longer hoses is all.

 

[rshepard2278]

Making the backhoe a towable unit is a good plan. You can still power it with the PTO, you'll just need longer hoses is all.

That's a great idea!!! I won't have to mess around with a small engine/hydro pump. I just got a 30 foot dual axle camper frame w/leveling jacks on each corner. I can modify the trailer to connect via 3 point and retain stability vs. using a standard ball hitch. Thanks @BarnyardEngineering, much appreciated!!!