IH 444 pto disengaging

[Massey_165]

On my IH 444 when bush hogging I have to keep my foot on the pto lever, if not it will kick back out. I did this while cutting 4 acres, when I was almost done the pto kept stopping on me, I could push the clutch in and let it back out and the pto would take off again, any ideal what could be wrong?

 

[Tim in New York]

Will be interested to see what you get back. I have a similar issue with my 2424. I have given up using the PTO. You might want to cross post this to the IH forum.

Tim

 

[Massey_165]

Will be interested to see what you get back. I have a similar issue with my 2424. I have given up using the PTO. You might want to cross post this to the IH forum.

Tim

I did!

 

[wore out]

I have a 424 with the same PTO setup.

It's a really simple setup, a shift collar (5) on the PTO shaft gets shoved forwards to engage with splines on the "live shaft" that passes through the hollow transmission lower shaft to engage the PTO.

There's a little "pilot" on the "live shaft", that engages a bushing (7) in the front of the PTO shaft, if there is wear/play there it will try to "work" the collar out of engagement.

If the rear bearing on the PTO shaft is worn, or a snapring has failed and the shaft is able to move fore and aft that will "work" the shift collar out of engagement, as well.

Or, possibly the splines are worn or the splined area may even have a twist from a severe shock load on the PTO at some point.

On mine, the support (3) was broken and the engagement lever (4) was beat up.

https://www.mycnhstore.com/us/en/ca...56875BD6/4CCF6496-EFBE-E111-9FCE-005056875BD6


Also, an implement PTO shaft that is too long or doesn't telescope freely will tend to damage the snap ring and other parts that keeps the shaft in the tractor from moving fore and aft as I mentioned before.

 

[INCase]

Will be interested to see what you get back. I have a similar issue with my 2424. I have given up using the PTO. You might want to cross post this to the IH forum.

Tim

me too. mine does the same thing. sometimes it will run for quite a while before it disengages and the next time it keeps jumping out. also seems to kick out more if i hit something heavy (ant hill or a bit of brush)

has also the issue that grandpa probably broke the PTO lever (the longer dog-legged one #18 in Wore-out's diagram) and someone had attached a steel plate to the shaft with a u-bolt and then welded the old lever onto that. I have wondered if some of my problem is the u-bolt/plate has slipped on the shaft and is too far back (clockwise) so the collar doesn't engage well ???? does anyone know where you can get that lever? 389573r92

do you guys notice that you have to have the clutch pedal on the floorboard to get it to disengage and just a slight movement off the floorboard engages the PTO?

ement and the buildings)

 

[Tim in New York]

Thanks for that diagram. My lever (#18) has been busted and repaired also. But its still "springy" and flexes quite a bit. Guess if I ever need to use the PTO I will have to get somebody to look into the internal parts.

 

[INCase]

Is it possible to substitute #18 with the #26 lever? I think the #26 is more readily available mostly aftermarket.

sounds like the #18 naturally more flimsy and prone to breaking??

 

[wore out]

Is it possible to substitute #18 with the #26 lever? I think the #26 is more readily available mostly aftermarket.

sounds like the #18 naturally more flimsy and prone to breaking??

IIRC, that's exactly what happened when I replaced the lever on my "424" (probably about 25 years ago).

 

[INCase]

from my owners manual this is what our 444 should have. I didn't relize that little elbow sticking off the side went into a detent. I wonder how much stain that puts on things bending the lever to move/bend it out to go between the detents for engaged/disengaged. Also looks like (has been broke since i got it so I'm just guessing) my disengaged position is way more forward travel than what this picture shows for the forward disengaged position. anyone have a picture of their tractor with this style ever on it?

 

[wore out]

from my owners manual this is what our 444 should have. I didn't relize that little elbow sticking off the side went into a detent. I wonder how much stain that puts on things bending the lever to move/bend it out to go between the detents for engaged/disengaged. Also looks like (has been broke since i got it so I'm just guessing) my disengaged position is way more forward travel than what this picture shows for the forward disengaged position. anyone have a picture of their tractor with this style ever on it?

Lever is a sort of "spring steel" and bends and springs back, no issue there. I don't think.

 

[JimB2]

It would appear that your 444 is a crate unit(power train only) build at the IH Bradford, UK plant and then final assembly in the IH plant in Louisville, KY, USA where they used US built parts to do the final assembly. The US parts were not a replica of the IH UK parts but parts that were common to the IH 404/504 tractors made in the US. Some parts like the Delco electric system were a big improvement, other parts were equivalent and other parts were not as good as the IH UK part and the PTO lever was one of them.
See below of a photo of the PTO lever on an IH UK made tractor.
History of the PTO lever on the Grandfather of these IH Bradford, UK built tractors was the B250, B275 and B414. The drum brakes on these tractors were barely adequate to stop the tractor with a heavy load behind, on the next revision IH increased the size of the brake drums and now the brake drum interfered with the existing PTO lever so the lever had to be redesigned with a curve in to go around the larger brake drum and still lock into the "Engage" hole in the diff casting. The IH Louisville assembled tractors had a problem with Operators forcing the IH, US PTO lever and either bending it so it no longer Engaged the PTO properly or breaking the lever.

 

[INCase]

Thanks for the picture and the history. nice to have bigger brakes. is this unit shown a UK or US tractor with UK style handle?

now that i think about it a bit more (tractor isn't sitting at my desk) my lever doesn't have the little elbow part that goes into the detents. it is just the dog-legged handle but as I mentioned someone had repaired it by welding the handle to a steel plate and putting a u-bolt to clamp the plate onto the shaft. which is why i think it could be out of wack position wise which doesn't help engagement right now. Since the handle broke off the steel plate i just grab the u-bolt threaded part and engage-disengage which engages easy enough but I still have to put my foot against the ubolt to keep the PTO engaged sometimes. I thought i had a picture of it but cannot find it.

 

[JimB2]

Thanks for the picture and the history. nice to have bigger brakes. is this unit shown a UK or US tractor with UK style handle?

now that i think about it a bit more (tractor isn't sitting at my desk) my lever doesn't have the little elbow part that goes into the detents. it is just the dog-legged handle but as I mentioned someone had repaired it by welding the handle to a steel plate and putting a u-bolt to clamp the plate onto the shaft. which is why i think it could be out of wack position wise which doesn't help engagement right now. Since the handle broke off the steel plate i just grab the u-bolt threaded part and engage-disengage which engages easy enough but I still have to put my foot against the ubolt to keep the PTO engaged sometimes. I thought i had a picture of it but cannot find it.

The photo is of an IH Bradford, UK completely built tractor.
I live in Canada and we only received the B250, B275, B414, 434, 444 and 384 series of tractors completely built in IH plant Bradford, UK and shipped to Montreal, Quebec or IH Hamilton, Ontario. My Dad had B414, 434 and later 384, all build in IH plant, Bradford, UK. There were several of those IH series tractors in the area. After these tractors became used, several of them were purchased and resold in the Northern US States as there was no import duties on used agricultural equipment.
One identifying item on an IH Crate unit assembled in Louisville, KY is a round tubular front axle as the UK units had an inverted "U" axle.

The other problems that happen are, the left foot rest becomes bent up caused by a tree branch etc while bush hogging and now the clutch dose not go far enough down to completely release the PTO clutch and the Operator forces the PTO lever to engage to PTO collar as it is grinding away on the PTO shaft, another is a stuck PTO clutch and OP again forces PTO lever to engage PTO and when the finger adjustment on the pressure plate become worn or the clutch pedal is out of adjustment, pushing clutch all the way to left foot rest will not release the PTO clutch and again OP forces PTO lever into engagement position with lots of shaft grinding. If with the clutch all the way to the foot rest dose not stop the PTO shaft from turning to engage the PTO lever easily, then turn the engine OFF, hold clutch to foot rest, engage PTO lever then start engine at low idle speed and let up on clutch, this will stop grinding the PTO shafts until adjustments/repairs can be performed.

 

[wore out]

from my owners manual this is what our 444 should have. I didn't relize that little elbow sticking off the side went into a detent. I wonder how much stain that puts on things bending the lever to move/bend it out to go between the detents for engaged/disengaged. Also looks like (has been broke since i got it so I'm just guessing) my disengaged position is way more forward travel than what this picture shows for the forward disengaged position. anyone have a picture of their tractor with this style ever on it?

Here' s the replacement lever on my "424", I got it from the CIH dealer probably 20-some years ago, it was in a Mahindra bag with a CIH part # sticker over the Mahindra part number.

 

[JimB2]

View attachment 91566Here' s the replacement lever on my "424", I got it from the CIH dealer probably 20-some years ago, it was in a Mahindra bag with a CIH part # sticker over the Mahindra part number.

The PTO lever on your 424 has to have even more clearance to avoid limiting on the extra hydraulic valve.