IH 504 Gas - Not starting

[Gonya518]

I have a IH 504 Gas tractor that will not start. I bought it running very roughly, throttle and choke needed to be in a finite position to keep it running. There is no fuel getting to the spark plugs. below is the things i have done and trouble shooting that i have tried. Now I am stumped and looking for help.

Removed and refinished inside of gas tank since it was rusted.

New fuel sending unit

Installed a new fuel line from bowl to carb.

Installed a new carb. (I have fuel in carb and runs freely out of drain screw on the bottom)

Installed New Plugs (have spark on all four)

Have suction on the carb for the air cleaner

Have compression in all 4 cylinders.

 

[old]

I have a IH 504 Gas tractor that will not start. I bought it running very roughly, throttle and choke needed to be in a finite position to keep it running. There is no fuel getting to the spark plugs. below is the things i have done and trouble shooting that i have tried. Now I am stumped and looking for help.

Removed and refinished inside of gas tank since it was rusted.

New fuel sending unit

Installed a new fuel line from bowl to carb.

Installed a new carb. (I have fuel in carb and runs freely out of drain screw on the bottom)

Installed New Plugs (have spark on all four)

Have suction on the carb for the air cleaner

Have compression in all 4 cylinders.

Have you held your hand over the air intake of the carb and made sure the suction is real good and your hand get gas on it?

 

[wwoodrow]

I have a IH 504 Gas tractor that will not start. I bought it running very roughly, throttle and choke needed to be in a finite position to keep it running. There is no fuel getting to the spark plugs. below is the things i have done and trouble shooting that i have tried. Now I am stumped and looking for help.

Removed and refinished inside of gas tank since it was rusted.

New fuel sending unit

Installed a new fuel line from bowl to carb.

Installed a new carb. (I have fuel in carb and runs freely out of drain screw on the bottom)

Installed New Plugs (have spark on all four)

Have suction on the carb for the air cleaner

Have compression in all 4 cylinders.

 

[wwoodrow]

If you KNOW you are getting fuel AND spark and its running rough, you need to be sure spark is strong and timing is right. Spark should be blue and able to jump at least 1/8th gap. Points need to be clean. Engine has to be in time. Check plug wires when it is dark to see if you have bad insulation. [ spark arc coming from plug insulation where plug wire insulation is worn] . Pull the distributor cap off and try to move the rotor from side to side to see if it has " slop " . It should have no play or it will cause it to run rough. Look inside distributor cap at the buttons to see if they are extremely corroded .Have you checked the plugs to determine what shape they are in and if correctly gapped? Check distributor cap for cracks[ they can be VERY hard to see. GOOD LUCK !

 

[Red Mercury]

A few years ago I had a similar problem with my 504 gas and it started to run terribly. It would barely idle and had to have the choke pulled out. After quite a bit of head-scratching I found that the intake manifold gaskets had deteriorated and it wasn't getting enough fuel.

 

[used red MN]

Hello G.., welcome to YT! Old has a good suggestion to hold hand over the carb opening to see if gas gets on it. If it does at least you know some gas is getting through the carb. You could pull two plugs and dump a tablespoon or so of gas in them and put them back in and see if it runs a bit on that gas. If it does then fuel is your problem. You have to open the carb up and clean it. Any chance you mixed up the spark plug wire order? Should have a number on the distributor cap for number 1. Then clockwise around the cap in order 1-4-3-2, number 1 plug being the farthest forward closest to the radiator.

 

[Gonya518]

Have you held your hand over the air intake of the carb and made sure the suction is real good and your hand get gas on it?

I have held my hand over the intake and had good suction. Not sure if i got any gas on my hands as i was wearing gloves and had previously had gas on them.

 

[Gonya518]

If you KNOW you are getting fuel AND spark and its running rough, you need to be sure spark is strong and timing is right. Spark should be blue and able to jump at least 1/8th gap. Points need to be clean. Engine has to be in time. Check plug wires when it is dark to see if you have bad insulation. [ spark arc coming from plug insulation where plug wire insulation is worn] . Pull the distributor cap off and try to move the rotor from side to side to see if it has " slop " . It should have no play or it will cause it to run rough. Look inside distributor cap at the buttons to see if they are extremely corroded .Have you checked the plugs to determine what shape they are in and if correctly gapped? Check distributor cap for cracks[ they can be VERY hard to see. GOOD LUCK

 

[Gonya518]

wwoodrow: It is currently not running i have fuel in the carb and have spark at the plugs i guess i could check the timing but i have did nothing to mess with it, so assuming it is fine

 

[Gonya518]

Hello G.., welcome to YT! Old has a good suggestion to hold hand over the carb opening to see if gas gets on it. If it does at least you know some gas is getting through the carb. You could pull two plugs and dump a tablespoon or so of gas in them and put them back in and see if it runs a bit on that gas. If it does then fuel is your problem. You have to open the carb up and clean it. Any chance you mixed up the spark plug wire order? Should have a number on the distributor cap for number 1. Then clockwise around the cap in order 1-4-3-2, number 1 plug being the farthest forward closest to the radiator.

Spark plugs wires are in the correct order. will inspect the distributer and internals. tried with the gas in the cylinders(not much) but it did start

 

[Gonya518]

Thank you everyone for the info. will check into the things mentioned. tried the above mentioned adding gas to the cylinders and it does start but dies right after that burns off. The tractor will turn over and start quickly the first time, almost like it has something in the Cylinders. usually only for a second or two and then dies out.

 

[Janicholson]

Thank you everyone for the info. will check into the things mentioned. tried the above mentioned adding gas to the cylinders and it does start but dies right after that burns off. The tractor will turn over and start quickly the first time, almost like it has something in the Cylinders. usually only for a second or to dies out.

90% chance there is a fuel issue. delivery to the carb, or within the carb there is blockage. Another issue could be a vacuum leak in the intake. There is a drain plug in the bottom of the carb. with the plug out into an open top clean can, there should be a first rush, then a steady stream of about a pint every 2 minutes. Less, or a tiny trickle will not run. Jim

 

[Gonya518]

Thank you everyone for the help. Update time..... After installing the new carb, fuel bowl, and new plugs. Idiot ahead....I didn't realize that the new carb had an adjustable jet on the bottom. So that being said, it was closed, that solves the fuel not getting to the plugs. However when I opened it it was leaking gas out of the overflow on the bottom of the carb. Note this is a brand new carb there should not be an issue with the float sticking. Anyways I switched back to the original carb and was able to get it running. The issue now is that the engine RPMs are way to high(will try to get a number if I can and post it back here) Tried to adjust the carb and did nothing to slow it down. Can someone please give me a direction of the exact adjustment settings for the zenith carb. Also any idea why the engine is racing so fast. I know that it should be a lower RPM. I don't let it run very long as I don't want to blow the engine up.

 

[used red MN]

You have to pull the carb down and check to see if the throttle plate was installed on the shaft correctly. There should be an idle stop screw on the carb lever that the governor rod operates. Its end should bump against a stop pin. When it is in this position the throttle plate should be closed. Moving the lever so the screw end moves away from stop pin the throttle plate should angle to the open position. If this is correct with the throttle wide open adjust the linkage that goes to the lever on the carb so the pin can slip through the linkage yoke and the carb lever. Put the pin in and its keeper. Then move the throttle back to an idle. This should close the carb throttle plate. If so, start it and see if the over revving is corrected.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Thank you everyone for the help. Update time..... After installing the new carb, fuel bowl, and new plugs. Idiot ahead....I didn't realize that the new carb had an adjustable jet on the bottom. So that being said, it was closed, that solves the fuel not getting to the plugs. However when I opened it it was leaking gas out of the overflow on the bottom of the carb. Note this is a brand new carb there should not be an issue with the float sticking. Anyways I switched back to the original carb and was able to get it running. The issue now is that the engine RPMs are way to high(will try to get a number if I can and post it back here) Tried to adjust the carb and did nothing to slow it down. Can someone please give me a direction of the exact adjustment settings for the zenith carb. Also any idea why the engine is racing so fast. I know that it should be a lower RPM. I don't let it run very long as I don't want to blow the engine up.

Engine speed is controlled through the governor. If the carburetor is not connected to the governor correctly, or if something has gone wrong inside the governor, the engine will race.

There's a rod that runs forward from the throttle plate on the carburetor, to an arm. The shaft that arm pivots on goes across the front of the engine to the governor. If you disconnect the rod and push it all the way back, that will put the carb at idle. If the tractor still won't idle, the problem is in the carb. Otherwise the problem is in the governor.

Work the "throttle lever" back and forth with the engine off. The governor arm should move back and forth along with it.

 

[Jim Becker]

If you disconnect the rod and push it all the way back, that will put the carb at idle.

Forward is idle.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Forward is idle.

Thanks. You are correct.

 

[Gonya518]

Thanks everyone for your input. Good news. Tractor runs fine. Took the governor to carb linkage off and shortened it 1/2 turn and that fixed the really high idle. Will probably need to rebuild the original carb in the future. So on to the next issue.

I have a hydraulic leak coming from the back of the left spool valve located by the seat on the right side. I can find the diagram for it but no part #'s for me to buy the parts. I am assuming I will just need O-rings but don't know what size they are. If anyone has this info can you please help me out?

Also I will need to change out the engine oil and hydraulic/transmission oil. What type of engine oil does this tractor call for(remember this is a gas engine)? Also for the Hy/ Tran fluid would this work?

 

[used red MN]

Thanks everyone for your input. Good news. Tractor runs fine. Took the governor to carb linkage off and shortened it 1/2 turn and that fixed the really high idle. Will probably need to rebuild the original carb in the future. So on to the next issue.

I have a hydraulic leak coming from the back of the left spool valve located by the seat on the right side. I can find the diagram for it but no part #'s for me to buy the parts. I am assuming I will just need O-rings but don't know what size they are. If anyone has this info can you please help me out?

Also I will need to change out the engine oil and hydraulic/transmission oil. What type of engine oil does this tractor call for(remember this is a gas engine)? Also for the Hy/ Tran fluid would this work?

CNHI Farmall 504 hyd. part diagram.Is this the valve you are looking to find orings for? This has the PNs and dimensions with them. If this is not what you are looking for click 07- Hydraulic system. This will bring you back to view all the hydraulic subsections. A problem I feel they have with there site is when you select a dealer if they don’t have it in stock it won’t show you a price.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Thanks everyone for your input. Good news. Tractor runs fine. Took the governor to carb linkage off and shortened it 1/2 turn and that fixed the really high idle. Will probably need to rebuild the original carb in the future. So on to the next issue.

I have a hydraulic leak coming from the back of the left spool valve located by the seat on the right side. I can find the diagram for it but no part #'s for me to buy the parts. I am assuming I will just need O-rings but don't know what size they are. If anyone has this info can you please help me out?

Also I will need to change out the engine oil and hydraulic/transmission oil. What type of engine oil does this tractor call for(remember this is a gas engine)? Also for the Hy/ Tran fluid would this work?

There is a procedure to adjust the governor. With the engine off, you disconnect the clevis on the linkage that runs to the carburetor. Set the throttle lever to full throttle. Now adjust the rod length so that with the carburetor held wide open, the pin slides easily through the arm and the clevis.

As I described earlier.

Don't just randomly change the length of the rod.