IH584 run problems part 2

[old]

So I changed the fuel filters and had trouble bleeding them so I fill them from the top by way of the bleed screws. It didn't want to fire up like it does most of the time so had to hold back on the kill lever in the start position to make it start. It ran for maybe 5 minutes just fine then started to act up and not run like it should run. At times slow down or blow a bit of smoke and also die. So what am I looking at having to do?? Maybe drain the tank and flush it out or what?? Thanks
By the way I haven't ever done much with a diesel tractor

 

[used red MN]

So if I understand right this thing has no lift pump, correct? Rig yourself up a temporary fuel tank off a lawn mower or such, then see what happens. My bet is your pump needs sent to Dieseltech for a rebuild. Are you just getting to the point where you are using this tractor more? I think you’ve had it a year or two. Why so many posts on this one subject? You must be running that “faux” Classic View simulation. Turn that garbajo off. Then every time someone adds a reply to your post it will show in bold indicating you haven’t read it,…whatever. Then all this information can be in one thread and not shot gun blasted all over this forum. Its the old dog and new tricks deal. . Join the 21 century!

 

[old]

So if I understand right this thing has no lift pump, correct? Rig yourself up a temporary fuel tank off a lawn mower or such, then see what happens. My bet is your pump needs sent to Dieseltech for a rebuild. Are you just getting to the point where you are using this tractor more? I think you’ve had it a year or two. Why so many posts on this one subject? You must be running that “faux” Classic View simulation. Turn that garbajo off. Then every time someone adds a reply to your post it will show in bold indicating you haven’t read it,…whatever. Then all this information can be in one thread and not shot gun blasted all over this forum. Its the old dog and new tricks deal. . Join the 21 century!

Gravity flow diesel as far as I know. As for so many posts the first one where it came up twice was a posting issue where it looked like the first one had not posted but it had. As for this post it is a follow up post to the first and the fact the fuel filter didn't fix it and I know the tanks on these style tractor tend to have problems so from what I am seeing good chance the fuel outlet is clogged and I know the cross over line has problem with flow

 

[wore out]

So if I understand right this thing has no lift pump, correct? Rig yourself up a temporary fuel tank off a lawn mower or such, then see what happens. My bet is your pump needs sent to Dieseltech for a rebuild. Are you just getting to the point where you are using this tractor more? I think you’ve had it a year or two. Why so many posts on this one subject? You must be running that “faux” Classic View simulation. Turn that garbajo off. Then every time someone adds a reply to your post it will show in bold indicating you haven’t read it,…whatever. Then all this information can be in one thread and not shot gun blasted all over this forum. Its the old dog and new tricks deal. . Join the 21 century!

Looking at the on-line parts catalog it appears it uses a Bosch diesel pump so it shouldn't be suffering from the deteriorating governor ring syndrome that afflicts Standyne/Roosa Master I.P.'s with age.

It DOES, however, use the CAV fuel filters that folks have issues with installing the sealing O-rings, and they can block fuel flow when installed wrong,

That's something I have NO experience with, someone else is going to have to explain that situation to "old".

 

[Jim.ME]

Looking at the on-line parts catalog it appears it uses a Bosch diesel pump so it shouldn't be suffering from the deteriorating governor ring syndrome that afflicts Standyne/Roosa Master I.P.'s with age.

It DOES, however, use the CAV fuel filters that folks have issues with installing the sealing O-rings, and they can block fuel flow when installed wrong,

That's something I have NO experience with, someone else is going to have to explain that situation to "old".

old, if you have one of these filters check your top gaskets.

A common happening is that the seal gasket/ring, that is supposed to go up into a groove in the mounted filter head, gets into the relieved area just inside the top rim of the filter element. sometimes people install them wrong, sometimes they drop out of the housing and land there. When that happens, it blocks the slots in that area that fuel has to pass through. Although it looks like a gasket should be in the slot of the element, and the gasket fits nicely, the gasket needs to be installed up in the housing head groove (remove the old gasket first). If it wants to fall out, I use a bit of grease to hold it up in there. The rim of the element seats to the gasket in the housing groove.

 

[old]

Looking at the on-line parts catalog it appears it uses a Bosch diesel pump so it shouldn't be suffering from the deteriorating governor ring syndrome that afflicts Standyne/Roosa Master I.P.'s with age.

It DOES, however, use the CAV fuel filters that folks have issues with installing the sealing O-rings, and they can block fuel flow when installed wrong,

That's something I have NO experience with, someone else is going to have to explain that situation to "old".

This one has what I would call spin on fuel filers like the spin on oil filters so the seal ring shouldn't be the problem since the old filters have the seal rings still on them

 

[old]

old, if you have one of these filters check your top gaskets.

A common happening is that the seal gasket/ring, that is supposed to go up into a groove in the mounted filter head, gets into the relieved area just inside the top rim of the filter element. sometimes people install them wrong, sometimes they drop out of the housing and land there. When that happens, it blocks the slots in that area that fuel has to pass through. Although it looks like a gasket should be in the slot of the element, and the gasket fits nicely, the gasket needs to be installed up in the housing head groove (remove the old gasket first). If it wants to fall out, I use a bit of grease to hold it up in there. The rim of the element seats to the gasket in the housing groove.

View attachment 72613
View attachment 72616

The fuel filters are the Wix 33373 and 33472 so they are not like what you have pictured. I am thinking the problem is at the tank fuel shut off valve and cross over line. I think I will need to figure out how to drain the tank and then remove the shut off valve which is broken any how as in the end has been broken off so to shut it off it takes a pair of vise grips. Plus I probably should take the cross over pipe that runs from one side to the other side of the tank off and make sure things are not clogged up and maybe flush the tank out

 

[wore out]

The fuel filters are the Wix 33373 and 33472 so they are not like what you have pictured. I am thinking the problem is at the tank fuel shut off valve and cross over line. I think I will need to figure out how to drain the tank and then remove the shut off valve which is broken any how as in the end has been broken off so to shut it off it takes a pair of vise grips. Plus I probably should take the cross over pipe that runs from one side to the other side of the tank off and make sure things are not clogged up and maybe flush the tank out

Did you look at (cut 'em open, if necessary) the old fuel filters?

If there's sludgy goo in them, likely you have some bacteria and/or fungi living in your fuel tank.

You need to treat the fuel with diesel fuel biocide to kill them, and it will take a couple of fuel filter changes to dispose of the remains.

Any water settled in the tanks aids in their growth.

 

[old]

Did you look at (cut 'em open, if necessary) the old fuel filters?

If there's sludgy goo in them, likely you have some bacteria and/or fungi living in your fuel tank.

You need to treat the fuel with diesel fuel biocide to kill them, and it will take a couple of fuel filter changes to dispose of the remains.

Any water settled in the tanks aids in their growth.

I did put in some diesel fuel additive today old filters look good and so did the fuel I dumped out of them

 

[showcrop]

"At times slow down or blow a bit of smoke and also die." sounds to me like classic fuel obstruction. I would remove the line from the filter inlet and let it run into a bucket and see if it will continue to run full or slow down. I have been able to clean a lot of crud from tanks by siphoning.

 

[Dieseltech]

Starting at the tank, remove the outlet lines and see how the fuel flows for FIVE minutes into a catch can. Flow MUST be good for a gravity system to work or the injection pump can't get what it needs for both delivery and ADVANCE to work right. If good TO the filters, next check at the OUTLET of filters, if good there remove the banjo bolt line at the FRONT of injection pump next to timing gear case, that's the supply line from the filter outlet. If flow is slow there, replace that line as they do fail inside over time. Sounds to me like injection pump is being starved of fuel somewhere in the system, better fix it and take good care as there are FEW hard parts available anymore for the Bosch VA AR, BR, and CR version hydraulic governed pumps anymore. I can get gaskets/seals to repair leaks, but if it needs a hydraulic head good luck finding one.

 

[urbancase]

Old, I have a 584 and have for the most part after have fuel problems off and on for a few years redid the whole system, including pulling tank off and fixing a few pin holes in the side of the fuel tank from rust with it being bolted to fenders, put new valves on tank and made new steel lines. Another thing I did was got adapters from wix filters and replaced the glass bowls with screw on filters. For some reason I had more problems with fuel on that tractor than any other.

 

[MARK ROBKE]

As I said in my reply to your other thread, since you ran it low, or out of fuel, the fuel inlet in these models tend to clog inside the tank (if there is debris in there). Undo the fuel line at the filter inlet and blow back into the tank. That will unclog it. Absolutely the first thing to do.
Then to bleed the filters- fill the tank plumb full, open the bleeder screw on the second filter (the one before the injection pump)- it's a 10 mm screw head- and just wait - it will gravity bleed. You said you have spin-on filters, which are better-IMHO- so they should not be any problem. And you should also clean the crossover line-probably easier when tank is low. Good luck, Mark.

 

[old]

Starting at the tank, remove the outlet lines and see how the fuel flows for FIVE minutes into a catch can. Flow MUST be good for a gravity system to work or the injection pump can't get what it needs for both delivery and ADVANCE to work right. If good TO the filters, next check at the OUTLET of filters, if good there remove the banjo bolt line at the FRONT of injection pump next to timing gear case, that's the supply line from the filter outlet. If flow is slow there, replace that line as they do fail inside over time. Sounds to me like injection pump is being starved of fuel somewhere in the system, better fix it and take good care as there are FEW hard parts available anymore for the Bosch VA AR, BR, and CR version hydraulic governed pumps anymore. I can get gaskets/seals to repair leaks, but if it needs a hydraulic head good luck finding one.

When I put on the new filters I could not get fuel out of either one of the bleeders so I figure I have a clogged up fuel outlet. The shut off valve has the shut off T broken off of it so figure I'd siphone the tank and pull the shut off off and the cross over line etc. and clean things up

 

[old]

Old, I have a 584 and have for the most part after have fuel problems off and on for a few years redid the whole system, including pulling tank off and fixing a few pin holes in the side of the fuel tank from rust with it being bolted to fenders, put new valves on tank and made new steel lines. Another thing I did was got adapters from wix filters and replaced the glass bowls with screw on filters. For some reason I had more problems with fuel on that tractor than any other.

This one has the screw on type filters that look just like the common screw on oil filter just these are for fuel

 

[old]

As I said in my reply to your other thread, since you ran it low, or out of fuel, the fuel inlet in these models tend to clog inside the tank (if there is debris in there). Undo the fuel line at the filter inlet and blow back into the tank. That will unclog it. Absolutely the first thing to do.
Then to bleed the filters- fill the tank plumb full, open the bleeder screw on the second filter (the one before the injection pump)- it's a 10 mm screw head- and just wait - it will gravity bleed. You said you have spin-on filters, which are better-IMHO- so they should not be any problem. And you should also clean the crossover line-probably easier when tank is low. Good luck, Mark.

I ran it just low enough that the top cross over at the top of the tank was low but other wise tank was 3/4 full but I know the cross over pipe at the bottom of the tank are known to get clogged so one has to keep them full which I have tried to do

 

[caterpillar guy]

Those tanks the shape of them lets all the crude settle to the bottom right over the shutoffs. I would check at the tank for fuel stoppages then work my way to thew filters for flow if good to the pump then I would guess the pump is in need of work. also check those banjo fittings for junk stuck in them that would normally pass through the lines and other fittings. Call me if you want more help. 989 413 5684 Mark.

 

[old]

Those tanks the shape of them lets all the crude settle to the bottom right over the shutoffs. I would check at the tank for fuel stoppages then work my way to thew filters for flow if good to the pump then I would guess the pump is in need of work. also check those banjo fittings for junk stuck in them that would normally pass through the lines and other fittings. Call me if you want more help. 989 413 5684 Mark.

When I changed the 2 filter and tried to bleed them I got no fuel out of the bleeder so figure the lines/outlets are clogged. I plan to drain the tank and pull all outlets and clean them up and may even replace the shut off valve due to the T handle of it being broken off