I'm looking at a backhoe, I have some research questions...

[Nyquil Junkie]

As the title says... :lol:

What I have in line is a Ford 4000, Industrial, year unknown as yet. From the pic of the dash, it seems like a mid 60s. Diesel, description says well maintained and barn kept. It hasn't been used in 4 yrs, hasn't been started in 2. I don't know if that means anything for a diesel (what I know about diesels would fit in a coffee cup) but for a gas, I know that would be bad news... people tell me for an old diesel.... no problem. I have my doubts.

Anyway, a few random questions ....

Would starting the thing with 2 (possibly 4) year old fuel in it harm anything or prevent it from starting? (they tell me with a battery it'll fire right up). If it does start will that old fuel cause problems later on once the new fuel and filters are put in?

hat was the difference between the standard ag tractor and an "industrial" version? The only manuals I can find cover the 4000 and others but not specific manuals on "industrial".

Other than any obvious problems like leaks, breaks, horrible noises, abnormal smoke, oil where it shouldn't be, water where it shouldn't be, ect ect... is there anything specific to these old ford tractors that I should look for?

Until I go check it out in a few days, thats pretty much my questions about it. I'll take a pile of pics and get the numbers off of it.

My level of expertise is fixing trucks, skid steers and other equipment but, I've never messed with anything diesel. So a lot of basic engine hydro and machine stuff I grasp fairly quickly.....lets hope anyway :lol:

I already was thinking about removing the hoe when not in use but your find collection of postings by people thinking that same thing put me off the idea real fast.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Destroked 450]

Starting it on old fuel isn't a issue, as for everything else it's a mater of which model it is, Ford made several different models of industrial tractors, raise the hood and see if there's a tag on the underside, it will contain the model number, date it was built and the serial numbers, list them here so we can better understand what model your looking at.
If the tag is gone the numbers are hand stamped onto the top of the clutch housing just behind the starter, should look similar to the ones in the photo, however the loader frame makes those numbers are hard it see and you may need a rag to wipe the dirt and grease away enough to read them

 

[Sean in PA]

Ford made a a couple of different tractors that they called the 4000. They made a 4 cylinder tractor series called the 4000 that had both a light industrial and a heavy industrial model from 1961-1964. Then they made another 4000 series from 1965-1975 that had a 3 cylinder engine. There was one industrial model within that servies that was called the 4500. They also made the 4400 model in the same series that Ford called a Utility model, but lots of folks call them ian industrial model.

The main difference between any Ford industrial model and the ag chassis models within the same series is the front axle and steering is much heavier duty on the industrial model to handle the greater weight that a loader brings to the game. The engines were generally the same between the ag and industrial models. I think that the 4 cylinder 4000 heavy duty industrial had a thicker casting for the rear axle center and trumpets to handle the heavier weight as well.The industrial models can sometimes also have unique transmissions that weren't generally available on the ag chassis models, like the Sherman reversing auxiliary transmission on the earlier 4 cylinder industrial models and the 4x4 torque converter auto reverser and the 4x4 and 4x6 manual reversing transmissions on the later 3 cylinder 4500 (and 4400 utility model as well).

Since you're referring to it a "4000 industrial", that's probably how it's listed in the ad and that means that it is most probably an earlier 4 cylinder 4000 heavy industrial model since it has a backhoe.

Old fuel should not be a problem.

 

[Royse]

Destroked, I've owned a lot of Ford tractors and that has to be
the clearest, straightest set of numbers I've ever seen on one!

 

[Tom in Mo.]

Using the old fuel should not be an issue but check the fuel tank level first. You don't want to crank it if the tanks empty. Air would be sucked through and then you have problems.
I have a 1975 Ford TLB and that thing has paid for itself many times around here.
It might be a jewel or it might be a fixer upper. Good luck with it.

 

[Tom in Mo.]

I agree! Those are incredible stampings.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 06:32:04 03/13/20) I agree! Those are incredible stampings.

The stampings on my '73 4000 look about the same. They have a couple of coats of yellow paint on them, but even with that they are very easy to read.

 

[showcrop]

Siphon some fuel from the bottom of the tank before cranking. Determine whether you will be getting fuel or mud.

 

[Destroked 450]

(quoted from post at 22:08:25 03/12/20) Destroked, I've owned a lot of Ford tractors and that has to be
the clearest, straightest set of numbers I've ever seen on one!

Thank Ultradog MN for that photo.
Jerry posted it a while back and I thought it was so good that I copied it to my photo file use as a reference photo.

 

[JDEM]

Here is my 1964 Ford 4000 Industrial with a backhoe and loader. 172 c.i. four-cylinder engine. Sherman under/overdrive aux. trans. Some parts
are certainly specific for the Industrial version or the HD Industrial version.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

What is the lift capacity of the front loader on a 4000?

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 20:40:28 03/13/20) What is the lift capacity of the front loader on a 4000?

It depends on which model 4000 it is and which loader it has. As has been said, Ford made multiple models within both the earlier 4 cylinder 4000 series and the later 3 cylinder 4000 series and there were multiple loader models available for many of them, and then there were after market loaders available as well, so we would need to know the exact 4000 model and loader model to be able to provide an accurate answer. The range is probably between 600 to 700 lbs. lbs. on the lighter one-arm "Farm loader" models up to 3750 lbs. which is the rating for the loader on the 4500 (according to tractordata).

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

Thats gonna be important to figure out.... one of its side jobs will be moving 800-900 lb round hay bales if the skid steer breaks down.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

Well we went to check it out, and bought it. Overall it was tight and no leaks in the loader system, a few minor drips on the backhoe. After 4yrs sitting in the barn it cranked a few times and fired up. No major smoke, no scary noises. Ran pretty smooth.

I took it for a spin, all the gears run nice, the clutch is good. All the hydros do what they should quick and smooth. The outriggers lifted the butt end of the tractor right off the ground, no struggle no bogging at an idle.

The stamp on the engine by the starter was beat on, itll take some work to bring that out. I took some pics of the grill and whatnot so maybe itll narrow down a year. it has 3140 hours on the clock but I think its broken as the tach isnt working. It runs at 60psi oil pressure....if the gauge is right, but it seems to be working, on 0 when not running and shoots up and hovers at 60 while its running.

Seems like a good solid well kept machine.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

The upload and posting is being cranky so... sorry for dupes I can't edit. :lol:

The plate is off the hoe... the plate on the loader was painted over so... no info until I can clean it off.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

Also... it has over under transmission.... not real sure what that is or how to use it but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

The only problem I see is on the hoe. In this pic, the chain is loose on the slack side and tight on the pulling side, which might be normal.... I don't know. The black arrow pointing to that big pin on the base of the hoe arm has some slop in it when you swing from side to side. I think replacing that pin won't be to difficult if I can find the right pin.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

Ok let me try it again...

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

Another post since I can't edit yet...

The hoe has a pump for it on the PTO, and turns on and off with the pto lever. They just sifted it back to turn it on and forward to shut it off but IIRC the PTO has a 3rd position... I'd like to know how to properly turn the hoe pump on and off, unless its just a 2 position on off deal?

The loader has its own pump up front.

I may have to start a new thread later on 1001 questions on "what is this thing" and "how does this thing work".

:wink:

 

[Destroked 450]

The tractor is a 63 or 64 model 4000 industrial with a 172 diesel engine, on the diesel tractors battery acid often drip onto the clutch housing where the serial numbers are stamped which eroded them to the point they are no longer readable, I can only see a couple of the number on my 801 diesel.
You tractor has what they call the Sherman over/under drive unit mounted inside the clutch housing which gives you more slower and faster gears than what was available with the standard 4 spd trans, under drive will be very handy for loader work. There should be a shift lever on the left side of the trans case near the clutch pedal for the over/under drive
The pto control only has two positions, off and on, the over/under drive must be in standard position for the pto to run at the correct speed for the backhoe pump.
There will be others chime in that know more about this series of tractor and backhoe than I do.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

(quoted from post at 19:06:16 03/15/20)
the over/under drive must be in standard position for the pto to run at the correct speed for the backhoe pump.

That would answer one of my questions... the guy who was showing it to me said he did not remember much about it after so long not using it, and the backhoe was slow, kind of weak and not responding quite right. The outriggers did lift it off the ground normally, but there were some issues with the hoe, to which the guy said it was low on hydro fluid, and since it was basically working and did lift the tractors back wheels off the ground quick, I figured he was right due to a leak in one of the back end lines that needed fixed. The O/U lever was in the low setting all the way forward (if I remember right). I wonder if it was just pumping slow in the low range then and not low on fluid? I wont know until I get it home later this week...

 

[showcrop]

I once had a three point PTO pump hoe. It was quick. It appears that there is a filter on the back of the left fender. replacing the element in that unit could make it work much better, or you could just remove it and plumb in a filter base that takes a spin on filter. It appears to be overall well cared for with mostly original paint.

 

[Tom in Mo.]

Glad it fired right up. From the photos it looks to be a great buy (that said not knowing the $). I'm not sure if you've been around equipment much but don't expect it to work alongside a regular backhoe like a 555 or such.
Looks like a fun project though! Complete. Normal wear for a 56 year old machine.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

We paid 5k for it. It has the 2" tooth bucket on the hoe with 2 more, a toothed narrow ditching bucket and a smooth one that is a little wider than the ditch bucket.

Around here loaders or backhoes for that price are all beat up rusted leaking machines with problems... so this was a good find for its condition and level of maintenance. Other than the swing pin on the hoe, its pretty tight all around.

It was 40F the morning it was started, after a 4yr sleep that was pretty impressive how quickly it started.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

It has the 2" tooth bucket on the hoe

24" that is.

Would someone be kind and turn on my ability to edit my posts? :lol:

 

[Destroked 450]

Editing is not available here, the price we pay for having two viewing formats

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

(quoted from post at 07:02:31 03/16/20)
Editing is not available here, the price we pay for having two viewing formats

I will check twice and post once from now on... :wink:

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

Is the backhoe on this the Sherman F-9 Backhoe? If so I'll buy the Parts Manual (Part No: FO_SHERF9 BH_PT). Thanks.

 

[Keith Williams]

Nyquil Junkie,
I think I see a dealer tag on it that says Vernon Dell Inp.
Is the tractor located near East Liverpool, Ohio?
Vernon Dell is located in Calcutta, Ohio.
Mark is the "Parts Guy", Great guy to work with.
Keith

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

East Liverpool isn't far from me, but the tractor is about 2 hrs from EL, a few miles south of Washington Pa... it didn't end up far from the dealer.

Good to know they are still there.... when I need some parts. Thanks for the info!

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

It depends on which model 4000 it is and which loader it has.

From what I can figure by research and comparing pics, it seems to be a Ford 703 loader. It has a big pump of its own on the front of the tractor if that makes any difference in its lifting ability.... it doesn't share the pump with the hoe, it has a big pump on the PTO of its own.

 

[Sean in PA]

According to documentation on the N club site, the 703 loader was rated for a maximum weight of 1200 lbs. to full height.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

(quoted from post at 13:49:47 03/19/20) According to documentation on the N club site, the 703 loader was rated for a maximum weight of 1200 lbs. to full height.

That'll do it. :wink: