Inline Hydraulic Float Valve

[Mike(NEOhio)]

I laughed when I saw that bead curve down. I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that anymore. I've welded some real nice beads two or three inches from the crack.

Ha, I've done that more than I'd like to admit. Despite 41 years at Lincoln I was never trained as a weldor.

 

[farmersamm]

This has been one stupidity after another. I spent an entire day trying to figure out how to mount the valve at the tractor remotes. Idiot.

Instead, I've realized that the valve assembly, due to its size, has to be mounted on the implement/mower.

If you're looking at the ball valves on the tractor..........they're my solution to the Oliver problem that has to do with hooking up implements under pressure. I can isolate the quick couplings with the valves. Makes hookups eazy peazy.

Because I've had good results from the clamp style I use, I decided to do it all over again. Why mess with perfection LOL.

An annular cutter will make short work of this kind of cutting. Fast, and accurate.

Cutting two separate pieces, clamped together, can pose a problem. There's just enough movement that the cutter will want to quit cutting. It's the same thing that forms the "tophat" that you get with annular cutters. When the cutter tries to pierce the material, the remaining bit of steel is too flexible, and doesn't want to break out. For something like this I use a solid piece of sacrificial plate underneath the pieces in the vise. Sort of like a flat parallel. It provides support for the cutter as you bear down on it. This workpiece was pierced without problem.........except it left behind a bit of a burr. Always does when doing 2 pieces.

Once the initial hole is cut, the sacrificial plate is removed, and two short parallels are put in its place. Then you can bore to size.

The holes are bored to the exact size of the pipe nipples. After the clamp bolt holes are drilled, the blocks will get milled to create about .015-.020 between them when clamped. This is a foolproof, extremely strong, way to capture your hydraulic pipe. It's necessary because the implement-to-tractor hoses will put a huge amount of strain on them.

The pipe nipples are Sch80 high pressure seamless pipe. Never use regular black pipe for this. Really doesn't cost much more to do it right. A hydraulic rupture can be a PITA, or deadly if it grenades.

The boring bar probably looks a bit funny. It was a fast grind on a piece of .500 HSS blank. The only thing I'm careful about is the cutting edge geometry. It's been doing well for years. Touch it up once in a while, and you're golden. HSS works well on gummy stuff like this hot roll square bar stock. For better materials, I favor a carbide insert.

I really beat the drum for keeping some HSS in your drawer. It can be ground to any shape, and it can make it possible to do work that can't be done with an indexable tool. I like carbide........less mess involved with coolant or oil...........but HSS has its place in a manual setting like mine........especially since I own less than stellar machines. Makes my junk workable.

 

[farmersamm]

Turned a plug that can be inserted into the bore where the pipe goes. This keeps it all aligned when drilling the clamp bolt holes.

Everything lined up ok. You might have noticed that all the parts are marked with punch marks. This is because the blanks were cut with a chop saw, and all pieces are just a tad different. Pairing them, oriented in the same way, insures a good fit because they've all been machined as a unit.

Did a dry fitup to see just how much space this is gonna take. It's ridiculous. Takes half a football field. But I guess it's the only way to set it up. You can see why it has to be mounted on the mower. The minimum size plate to mount all this stuff on is 7"x10". Geez!!

I really can't see any alternative as to how to mount the valve. I don't trust the mounting slots provided, and I can't imagine not providing for the strain on the ports and nipples(shrug).

 

[tom upton]

More than one way to skin a cat, but why not just drill a couple holes in a pc of plate, or even directly onto the frame of your mower and use the mounting holes/slots on the valve body to mount? That is what they are intended for. If worried about vibration you could have put a pc. of rubber under valve body, but really would be fine bolted to a flat pc of plate. Looks like SAE ports in body that you could have plumbed hoses directly into or used SAE to JIC adaptors and no big ugly nipples required. In saying that its always easy to critisize after the fact!

 

[farmersamm]

More than one way to skin a cat, but why not just drill a couple holes in a pc of plate, or even directly onto the frame of your mower and use the mounting holes/slots on the valve body to mount? That is what they are intended for. If worried about vibration you could have put a pc. of rubber under valve body, but really would be fine bolted to a flat pc of plate. Looks like SAE ports in body that you could have plumbed hoses directly into or used SAE to JIC adaptors and no big ugly nipples required. In saying that its always easy to critisize after the fact!

I see where you're coming from. I looked for the least intrusive way to put this mess together. Just couldn't find a satisfactory alternative. The number one concern is the tightening torque on the valve port adapters. Parker calls out around 17ish foot pounds on anything attached to the valve. Probably due to it being aluminum, and because the ports are ORB ports(SAE). They rely on an o ring for sealing, which requires only that the ring be distorted/crushed to seat.

Because of this......................there's very little, if any, resistance to the port adapters spinning out of the port under strain. This might be ok for an in-cab installation where the hoses aren't under strain as the mower turns, but any external mounts are under a bit of strain which can lead to the doggone things unthreading.

A plate mount, which was envisioned, and currently complete, is about the only way to go IMHO. It's more complicated, and requires a bit of fanoogieing to make it work. Clearance, and standoff, issues have been a PITA.

 

[farmersamm]

When it was time to mark the plate after cutting..............it turned out to be badly bent. Not caused by cutting...........this was cut with a plasma cutter which doesn't leave any appreciable HAZ to warp anything. Just one more thing to pile on the time. Can't mount anything to this.

The plate is clamped to a straight piece of tubing. The clamps provide restraint. When the metal is heated at the apex of the bend, it expands.....or tries to. The clamped restraint prevents it from expanding like it wants to. Instead, the metal will upset. Thickening somewhat in the heated zone. This takes the stretch out of the metal at this point. Any time you see a bend, the metal was stretched at the apex of the bend.

The metal is heated to somewhere around 1200*. The critical temp for mild steel. If you're doing this, you can judge temperature by seeing the metal go into a dull red IN THE SHADE. Or, you can use an IR thermometer. I probably didn't quite get to 1200* because it's a thin (1/4) piece of plate. I just need a fairly gentle bend.

When the plate cools a bit, hit it with a bit of water. This speeds up the process of shrinking the heated area. The clamps prevent the shrink from going anywhere but where you want it. It won't bend in the opposite direction......which it can if it's not restrained. This is precise heat shrinking.

And BAZINGA............we gots a straight plate.

I do a lot of heat shrinking, so it pays me to have a dedicated heating rig. The torch puts out 500,000 BTU's. It's a pretty serious lil' fella.

Some applications require heating a spot...........myself........I like either heating a band, or a wedge. This requires a huge amount of heat in order to do it fast. An Acetylene setup would require manifolding the Acetylene bottles to provide adequate flow rate without exceeding a safe withdrawl rate. For this reason, I really suggest a Propane/O2 rig. You can withdraw Propane from a bottle faster than Acetylene.

I'm pulling the Propane at not only a higher pressure, but at a really large CFM rate.

O2 is the big difference. You're pulling very high pressure, and volume. You need a coupla bottles if you're doing a lot of this during the day.

 

[farmersamm]

Blue it up for marking

Transfer punches are ideal for locating the point for holes you need to drill. DON'T WHACK THEM.........just tap them. They're easy to dull. Once you find the little dimple, enlarge it with a regular center punch.

I'm 100% manual machining here............and I'm about 100% old school. DRO is just a set of letters...........I still use a wiggler to spot my locations. Great little tool.

Spacers are required to clear the bolt heads. All in all...........it's been a ton of work for something that should have been included in the tractor hydraulics. Is what it is I guess.

Bolt it to the machine tomorrow, then grab some hoses to plumb it out.

Then...........it's bearing time. I found a bad pillow block bearing when doing the work. Have to get it off, and find something that fits.

I did this in 2 posts.........if you want to get the tutorial on heat shrinking the plate, go back one post. I'm used to forums that limit you to 5 pics per post.

 

[farmersamm]

K'kins car was in the shop for a window regulator repair. A piece of 2x4, a wedge, and a screw...........................and she was back on the road again

 

[super99]

Good work, wish I was as talented as you are!

 

[farmersamm]

Good work, wish I was as talented as you are!

Don't gimme that crap. I'd guess, and it's probably a good guess, that you don't have all the stuff needed to do this stuff. Never never never run yourself down. There's plenty of Aholes on the internet to do that, don't do it to yourself.

 

[Harold Hubbard]

View attachment 85855

This has been one stupidity after another. I spent an entire day trying to figure out how to mount the valve at the tractor remotes. Idiot.

Instead, I've realized that the valve assembly, due to its size, has to be mounted on the implement/mower.

If you're looking at the ball valves on the tractor..........they're my solution to the Oliver problem that has to do with hooking up implements under pressure. I can isolate the quick couplings with the valves. Makes hookups eazy peazy.

View attachment 85856

Because I've had good results from the clamp style I use, I decided to do it all over again. Why mess with perfection LOL.

An annular cutter will make short work of this kind of cutting. Fast, and accurate.

View attachment 85857

Cutting two separate pieces, clamped together, can pose a problem. There's just enough movement that the cutter will want to quit cutting. It's the same thing that forms the "tophat" that you get with annular cutters. When the cutter tries to pierce the material, the remaining bit of steel is too flexible, and doesn't want to break out. For something like this I use a solid piece of sacrificial plate underneath the pieces in the vise. Sort of like a flat parallel. It provides support for the cutter as you bear down on it. This workpiece was pierced without problem.........except it left behind a bit of a burr. Always does when doing 2 pieces.

View attachment 85858

Once the initial hole is cut, the sacrificial plate is removed, and two short parallels are put in its place. Then you can bore to size.

View attachment 85859

The holes are bored to the exact size of the pipe nipples. After the clamp bolt holes are drilled, the blocks will get milled to create about .015-.020 between them when clamped. This is a foolproof, extremely strong, way to capture your hydraulic pipe. It's necessary because the implement-to-tractor hoses will put a huge amount of strain on them.

The pipe nipples are Sch80 high pressure seamless pipe. Never use regular black pipe for this. Really doesn't cost much more to do it right. A hydraulic rupture can be a PITA, or deadly if it grenades.

The boring bar probably looks a bit funny. It was a fast grind on a piece of .500 HSS blank. The only thing I'm careful about is the cutting edge geometry. It's been doing well for years. Touch it up once in a while, and you're golden. HSS works well on gummy stuff like this hot roll square bar stock. For better materials, I favor a carbide insert.

I really beat the drum for keeping some HSS in your drawer. It can be ground to any shape, and it can make it possible to do work that can't be done with an indexable tool. I like carbide........less mess involved with coolant or oil...........but HSS has its place in a manual setting like mine........especially since I own less than stellar machines. Makes my junk workable.

Because I have only a lathe, and not a mill, I will do a split piece with shims between the parts when I do the final bore. That gives me the crush clearance in one operation.

 

[farmersamm]

Because I have only a lathe, and not a mill, I will do a split piece with shims between the parts when I do the final bore. That gives me the crush clearance in one operation.

Sounds like me before I had a lathe. I started out with just a mill, and had to make round stuff using a rotary table. That got old real fast. I was lucky to be able to buy the lathe before the prices skyrocketed on the import tooling. I don't believe I could justify the purchase at todays prices. They're insane.

You adapt I guess. Funny how that is. There's always a solution when you're forced to find one.

The insurance lady told us that we needed to up the amount on the shop X2. I didn't believe her until I thought about it. Things have gotten that expensive. Most of my stuff has been acquired over many years, at hugely lower valuation than what the replacement value is today.

She also told us that they're not writing many policies at present. They've been limited to a set amount of policies per month. The insurance companies don't want to cover wildfire, and storm, damage anymore. Oklahoma, although it never makes the news, is plagued by wildfires during the Winter months, and it seems to be getting worse.

I think the State insurance commissioners, or the Fed Govt, needs to step in, and tell these companies that they can't cherry pick their customers. If they want to do business in a State, they have to take all comers. This same sorta crap is going on in California. I've read that they're arbitrarily canceling polices out there. They want the gravy without the risk.

 

[farmersamm]

Had to use the smoogie machine to get the bolt holes right. Hand drilling never seems to hit the mark, at least when I'm doing it I like the import die grinder.......cheap, and works nice. Still prefer my Dewalt, but this import job gets used when I'm working in the dirt.

Plumbed the valve 3/8 JIC where I could. The remaining outlet will stay NPT.

Naturally, something has to go wrong. This fine German machine doesn't use standard (at least for this part of the world) connectors. Near as I can tell, they're Series 56 connectors. https://ph.parker.com/us/en/product/global-fittings-56-series-metric/10c56-12-6 I need to have a hose made with JIC on one end, and this abomination on the other. I hate foreign stuff I might be able to find an adapter. Hope springs eternal.

Hopefully Aberdeen will have something.

This thing is getting out of hand..............IT'S ALMOST AS BIG AS THE MOWER.

 

[farmersamm]

Plumbed, then moved around to see just how much slack is needed for the hoses. Fittings were only installed on the caddy end of the hoses. They were left over long so that I could mark them for cutting, and installing the remaining fittings on the tractor side. Ran out of time, so get to the hose shop tomorrow. Meanwhile, I've moved on to replacing a broken bearing on the caddy PTO shaft.

 

[farmersamm]

Scarfing 101
​

This is a flange mounted spherical outer race bearing. It's the carrier bearing for the caddy PTO shaft. At this point, I'm removing the eccentric lock ring. Note how the metal is melted, not cut. Scarfing allows you to heat the offending metal, and wash it away......while not bothering anything underneath it.....namely the shaft.

The shaft is left pristine.

After removing the flange, outer race, and ball bearings..................I'm left with the inner race that rides on the shaft. The metal is melted, then you hit the O2 to blow it away. Because of how a scarfing tip is made, and the angle it works at, you'll never damage the parent metal if you're experienced at using such a tip. It's surgical.

For something like this, you don't have to completely remove the metal. Once it's this thin, it will either slide off, or can be easily broken with a hammer.

Smooth as a baby's butt...........ready for the new bearing.

The entire bearing was disassembled in around 10 minutes. This is fast, and with practice..................very safe.

This is the scarfing tip. It's made so that you can run the torch at a very low angle to the surface of the metal (almost parallel). The metal is preheated to a molten state, then you hit the Oxygen lever to move the metal ahead of the molten puddle. The Oxygen stream will not cut, but simply moves the metal out of the way. You can see that the O2 orifice is quite large.............this is so the Oxygen jet is not at high pressure/velocity..........it's more of a gentle somewhat diffused stream. If done right, the metal you want to save, shows up as a dark area, completely distinct from the metal you're removing. Arc gouging types call this the "separation line".

This process pre dates arc gouging, and plasma gouging. I find it to be more accurate, and doesn't require special machinery to accomplish the same task. If you haven't heard of it, or never tried it........................I suggest you pick up a tip, and practice with it. You'll be hooked. Removes stuck parts, removes welds, even removes the stubborn warts that mess up your drivers license pic

 

[farmersamm]

This should finish it out I guess.

The mounting surface for the flange bearing was bent. I feel this is what destroyed the original bearing. I'm thinking this caddy was a Rusto Reman. Coat of paint, and out the door it went. The bearing/driveshaft had failed, ruining the mounting plate, new bearing was just slapped on prior to paint. The bearing housing had cracked in 4 places. DUE TO BEING MOUNTED ON A BENT PIECE OF PLATE.

Instead of using water to shrink the metal, it was peened while hot. This relieves the stress, and allows it to shrink back to shape. This is a viable alternative for situations where you either don't have water, or there's insufficient restraint available. Again, I have to stress..................this isn't heat working which involves taking the metal up to the melting point, or near.

This bearing style requires a flat surface for mounting. Any deviation from flat can cause the housing to crack when the bolts are tightened.

The mounting surface is blued, then the bearing is rocked/scraped/slid on the blued surface to establish the high spots. High spots are gently ground out in stages............don't expect to hit your mark in one go. One bolt hole had to be enlarged also.

In the end, we have a good fit. Time consuming, but worth it IMHO.

Before moving on..........I should note that I couldn't source a bearing with an eccentric locking collar. All that was available was a set screw design, which I don't like. I prefer a collar that really seats everything solidly. To compensate, I used 609 on the shaft/bearing. It's good stuff for tight fitting assemblies. There was no damage to the shaft surface, so the fit was a tight slip fit. 609 will fill gaps from around 9 tenths, to up to around 4 thou. Good stuff. Added insurance. You have to heat the part to disassemble it, but by the time it's needing disassembly............it's probably toast anyways.

 

[farmersamm]

To finish out the hydraulic system......................

The return port on the side of the hydraulic sump was removed. Had to heat it to get it out. Most of these plugs require heating to remove. MAKE SURE TO DO ANY KIND OF HEATING WITH OIL IN THE UNIT........................DO NOT DRAIN IT. If drained, there will be Oxygen present in the heated area............which can cause combustion. The oil isolates the area from O2.

The line runs behind the seat. The valve isolates the sump when the implement is not in use.

All lines cut to proper length with ends installed. The electrical harness safely attached to the return "float" line. I have the option of letting the hoses dangle, or lifting them with a length of bungee strap. I'll probably go the safe route, and suspend the hoses.

Everything is quick connect, including the return line and electrical connector.

The 3 way float valve is controlled with a simple toggle switch mounted on the lever. Flip of your thumb, and you can toggle between float, and closed pressure loop. Works fine. Most importantly..............it's a one hand, instant, on-the-go, way of controlling the valve. Stuff happens fast when you're in the field. Because it's clamped to the lever, it can be loosened and slid down the lever when not using the disc mower. Gets it out of the way if desired.

We're pushing 100* temps right now. Cold front coming this weekend that should drop temps to the lower 80's. I'm waiting till the temps drop before cutting. The Hydra Power transmission, being ready to fail, will like the lower temps for keeping the oil a bit cooler during the day. Is what it is I guess. If the tractor survives haying, the tranny will come out this Winter...........after I build a rough terrain gantry crane(sigh). Sad thing is.............the Allis was set up for doing this. Built all the necessary accessories for the loader to do this kind of work. But, the Allis needs a motor.

Edit: Almost forgot............. I had some keyboard commando try to tell me that you don't need float for these mowers, and that they run them without float on his side of the pond. Wrongo Boyo. I can lower the cutter bed anywhere in the yard using closed loop pressure. After lowering as much as possible........................you will still see the mower arms "relax" after toggling to float position. This tells you that the cutter bed will never be sitting flat without float. Uneven cut, strain on the cylinder and cylinder mounts as it bounces...........................yeah, go ahead and run them without float.