IPTO stuck

[Ohtuckian2025]

Well, I'm back. Again. I had everything working perfectly until my mower found a tree stump. I have a MF175 diesel paired to a 60" International rotary cutter, not a Bush Hog or brush hog that everyone mislabels. I just recently purchased 10 acres down in Kentucky and I've been going through shear bolts repeatedly because there are a lot of tree stumps and rocks that are hard to see because of heavy brush. I've been buying sets of 5 shear bolts from TSC. The guy at TSC told me that I could just use grade 5 bolts. Well, he was wrong. Grade 5 bolts do not shear. So, now, my PTO on the tractor does not turn, it just sits there pulsing. I'm hoping someone can give me some preemptive advice because I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I"ve tried pulling the PTO shaft out, but it won't budge. Does anyone know if it's the IPTO clutch or what should I be looking for? I am taking the top cover off today, maybe it will be obvious? Suggestions appreciated.

 

[TheBartman47]

With the tractor off and PTO in neutral, can you turn the shaft by hand? When the tractor is running and you engage the PTO, does the engine change RPM any at all, that is, does the clutch seem to apply any pressure?

 

[Ohtuckian2025]

No, the PTO does not turn with engine off and PTO in neutral. In fact, I hooked up just the PTO shaft from my mower and turned it and it was very hard to turn even with the leverage of the mower PTO shaft. I also used that mower PTO shaft for leverage to remove the tractor PTO shaft and it's all OK. No, the engine speed does not change. I am in the process of splitting the tractor because I'm pretty sure I've jammed up the IPTO clutch assembly.

 

[TheBartman47]

Yep, sounds like something broke on the inside and will require at least a clutch pack reassembly.

 

[Ohtuckian2025]

And, the only way to get the IPTO clutch assembly out is by splitting the tractor, right?

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Grade 5 or 8 will actually work beautifully…with a slip clutch. that everything the tsc man has ever seen sold is equipped with…that’s how to make this actually work enough to get your brush dealt with. I’m just guessing that the old ih doesn’t have one. Or a belt to give way.

This same setup works absolutely wonderful on the tiller will hit the buried concrete and spin just enough to still get the job done without any danger of destroying the tractor or the tiller

Otherwise on the old one grade 2 it is.

As much as newer tractors haven’t upped their game even the low quality implements without a motor have gotten very nice. Unfortunately they cost as much as my tractors.

 

[Powered By IH]

Hopefully you just stripped out the splines of the clutch plates.

How many times have you had the top cover off? You must be getting good at it by now lol

 

[Brian G. NY]

"not a Bush Hog or brush hog that everyone mislabels."
I've never mislabeled my 60" Bush Hog "Squeeler". LOL

Grade 5 or 8 will actually work beautifully…with a slip clutch. that everything the tsc man has ever seen sold is equipped with…that’s how to make this actually work enough to get your brush dealt with. I’m just guessing that the old ih doesn’t have one. Or a belt to give way.

Well, slip clutches are fine unless you let them seize up from rust; then they are virtually useless.
I like to loosen the springs on my Bush Hog before use each year and run it into some heavy weeds or light brush and force it to slip so the plates smooth up a little and then retighten the springs.
My Bush Hog is stored outside and although I do cover the slip clutch itself, it still tends to seize up.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

"not a Bush Hog or brush hog that everyone mislabels."
I've never mislabeled my 60" Bush Hog "Squeeler". LOL

Grade 5 or 8 will actually work beautifully…with a slip clutch. that everything the tsc man has ever seen sold is equipped with…that’s how to make this actually work enough to get your brush dealt with. I’m just guessing that the old ih doesn’t have one. Or a belt to give way.

Well, slip clutches are fine unless you let them seize up from rust; then they are virtually useless.
I like to loosen the springs on my Bush Hog before use each year and run it into some heavy weeds or light brush and force it to slip so the plates smooth up a little and then retighten the springs.
My Bush Hog is stored outside and although I do cover the slip clutch itself, it still tends to seize up.

I will admit the slip clutch on the implements I have are stored indoors and is only 15 years old at the moment. But I think you can purchase an add on slip clutch for this and take it off set it in the garage if you wanted to.

 

[Rbellucci]

Well, I'm back. Again. I had everything working perfectly until my mower found a tree stump. I have a MF175 diesel paired to a 60" International rotary cutter, not a Bush Hog or brush hog that everyone mislabels. I just recently purchased 10 acres down in Kentucky and I've been going through shear bolts repeatedly because there are a lot of tree stumps and rocks that are hard to see because of heavy brush. I've been buying sets of 5 shear bolts from TSC. The guy at TSC told me that I could just use grade 5 bolts. Well, he was wrong. Grade 5 bolts do not shear. So, now, my PTO on the tractor does not turn, it just sits there pulsing. I'm hoping someone can give me some preemptive advice because I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I"ve tried pulling the PTO shaft out, but it won't budge. Does anyone know if it's the IPTO clutch or what should I be looking for? I am taking the top cover off today, maybe it will be obvious? Suggestions appreciated.

Using Grade 5 bolts instead of shear bolts is a tough lesson to learn. If the PTO is pulsing but not turning, you might be looking at damaged internal splines or a fried IPTO clutch pack. Pulling the top cover is definitely the right next step to see the extent of the damage.

 

[Dieseltech]

As an old MF mechanic it sounds to me like the hydraulic IPTO clutch pack is wrecked. Lift cover, rear trans/diff case split and pumps removal are needed before the IPTO assembly will come out. With engine OFF the PTO shaft should turn by hand because the PTO brake will be OFF with NO hydraulic pressure.

 

[Ray,IN]

As a retired tool N die maker, I have to throw the BS flag on using gr5 or higher bolts for protective shear bolts. I ALWAYS want the easiest to replace, and cheapest part to break first. When ACE hardware sells ½"x 3" gr 2 bolts with a nylock nut for $1 ea., I don't mind replacing one when it breaks.
It's not difficult to understand what happens when a gr 5 bolt breaks in a cast iron part., the cast iron suffers the damage, even though the bolt did break.

 

[Texasmark]

"not a Bush Hog or brush hog that everyone mislabels."
I've never mislabeled my 60" Bush Hog "Squeeler". LOL

Grade 5 or 8 will actually work beautifully…with a slip clutch. that everything the tsc man has ever seen sold is equipped with…that’s how to make this actually work enough to get your brush dealt with. I’m just guessing that the old ih doesn’t have one. Or a belt to give way.

Well, slip clutches are fine unless you let them seize up from rust; then they are virtually useless.
I like to loosen the springs on my Bush Hog before use each year and run it into some heavy weeds or light brush and force it to slip so the plates smooth up a little and then retighten the springs.
My Bush Hog is stored outside and although I do cover the slip clutch itself, it still tends to seize up.

Totally agree on loosening the springs and slipping the clutch deliberately (driven by the tractor) for a couple of minutes.....then returning the springs to the length that they were originally.....helps to measure their length prior to loosening the bolts.

On bolt strength, I find most sources recommend Grade 5. Only difference I found was the shaft on my JD 375 round baler is spec'd in the manual for Grade 8 and I use that.....I snapped one yesterday and the higher the grade the easier they snap rather than shear....on the baler shaft it's easy to find the holes as it's obvious where the holes are as there are 2 plates that line up rather than a circumference inside a circumference.

On snap vs shearing, I like to run Grade 2 on my mower shafts because they shear, leaving a trail as to where the holes are even on implements recommending the Grade 5. Reason is that I can find the hole on the inner shaft much easier with a smear rather than just a snap.....most of the time the snappers just blend in with the shaft and you can't find them to knock the slugs out.....at least it has been my observation and practice.