It Could Never Happen To Me...

[Colin King]

After spending about an hour spreading used poultry bedding on the pasture this afternoon, I shut down the 961D to do chores. As I was grabbing feed (I was about 10' from the tractor), I could smell something burning (key was off). I looked around and saw quite a bit of smoke coming out from under the dash. I ran to the tractor and quickly disconnected the battery, which stopped the smoke. The battery sparked mightily. The smoke appeared to be coming from the voltage regulator, but further investigation is needed.

I'm not sure how close I came to having a catastrophic fire, if at all, but nonetheless this experience certainly increased my awareness of the dangers of tractor fires.

Earlier, I had noticed that the generator was making a fairly noticeable whirring noise that could be heard over the idling engine, but that noise went away after about 5 minutes. Coincidence? I'll have to do some electrical tests to find out.

Colin, MN

 

[wi11y]

Ah the joys of generators and regulators. The regulator will eventually stick. When it does, it stops acting on behalf of the generator and will dead short the generator turning it into a motor. Hopefully you only need to replace the regulator. Yet there is a hiccup with getting a new regulator. You need to take the generator and the new regulator to a shop and get them tuned. This way the regulator doesnt under power the generator or the generator doesnt over power the regulator creating a bigger catastrophe.

Are you starting to understand why many owners are using a one wire alternator instead of a generator?

 

[Paul in MN]

Glad you were there to see the smoke and pull the batt cable! May be time to consider doing the 12 V conversion and using a cheap alternator with built in regulator. They sure have reduced the amount of electrical issues we deal with here.

Good luck in what you find!

Keep us posted!


Paul in MN

 

[RodinNS]

Could be gen/reg. Could also more likely be the starter/switch.......
You got lucky for sure.
I'd just reconnect the cables and see what wants to spark up and go from there. May be as simple as a short to ground somewhere.
I wouldn't much hesitate on installing a Delco 10si alt if the gen is indeed the problem unless originality is a big deal to you.

Rod

 

[Royse]

Sounds like you got lucky by still being there.
That used bedding smells bad enough without being on fire!

If it sparked when you disconnected it, I wouldn't try connecting it
back up. Those sparks can be enough to explode a battery. BTDT.

Yours should be a 12V generator, no?
If so you may have better luck finding a quality replacement than
I can find for the old 6V systems. Those regulators are the reason
I have started converting mine to 12V alternators.
By the time I buy three $45 regulators to get one good one, I
have paid for the entire 12V conversion on a gasser.
And you would already have the 12V battery.

 

[maxwell99]

I couldn't agree more on changing to an alternator,
However do as I say, not as I do,
I have another brand tractor, un mentionable on this site, but the engineers in there infinite wisdom in 1957 ran the tachometer off the back of the generator, TO 35 Ferguson

So If I change to an alternator, I will need to come up with an low rpm electronic tachometer that will fit in the tachometer slot,

So far, as all things are still running good, it is just too much work for me to change over,
Note to file: O'Reiliy's auto parts sells voltage regulators (made in US) with life time warranty,
But then again, I have not had an almost catastrophic Fire,

 

[Destroked 450]

Hope it hasn't melted the wiring harness, I'd convert it to a Delco alternator. I've converted my 4000 and 5000 and getting ready to convert the 4500. 4000 has been converted for 15 years and still has the same alt.

We're getting ready to start spreading poultry litter here next week but it'll take a few days to get it all done. Should have around 500 tons to spread and sell, I need about 150 tons on my farm, the rest we'll sell to other farmers in the area.

 

[Dieseltech]

There are tractors with Delco alternators that have the tach drive too, MF 175-180 and AC 190XT-200 come to mind..

 

[Destroked 450]

961 gets it's tach drive of the back of the hydraulic pump, 65 and later -000 series have tach drive on the generator.
Plain old Delco alternator is all Colin King needs.

 

[Colin King]

Poultry litter does amazing things out on the field. Sounds like you have a pretty big operation. I'm on the hobby scale by comparison. What do you raise?

Colin

 

[Colin King]

Royse, I'm really glad that I parked it where I did. If I had parked it in it's normal location, I would have walked away and would have never seen the smoke until potential damage had been done.

I'm intrigued by replacing the 12v generator & regulator with an alternator. Never done this before. Is the famed Delco 10si what I'd need? And I would no longer need a VR?

Colin

 

[Colin King]

Functionality ranks higher than originality in this case. Considering the cost of the VR, I'm strongly considering the alternator. It's already a 12v system because it's a diesel.

Colin

 

[Colin King]

Thanks, Paul! Hope you had a nice Father's Day!

 

[Colin King]

I did have to move the tractor out of the way this morning so that I could do morning chores - it was parked so that it could be used as the chore tractor. I did have to reconnect the battery, and yes it sparked. Had the battery hooked up for less than 5 minutes and during that time the VR got hot to the touch and began smoking. My maintenance record shows that this 12v VR has 15 hours on it. That's the extent of my diagnostics at this time. It'll be a few days before I get to look further into the problem.

Thank you all for your thoughts. I appreciate your help, and I'm strongly considering replacing the generator/regualtor set-up with an alternator.

Colin

 

[Royse]

A 10SI would work fine and you wouldn't need an external
regulator as it is built into the alternator.

I like the three wire style, but a one wire would work fine.
Being diesel you have no worries about the diode or lamp
so that it doesn't back-feed the ignition like it can on a gasser.

On either style alternator I would get the right pulley to fit
your belt. The narrow belts that fit the automotive alternator
pulley can slip on your crank pulley and/or water pump pulley.
YT sells the pulley separately if you can't find it locally.

With the right brackets you should be able to reuse your
original belt if its in good shape. I was able to on my 960.

Around here, the parts stores carry the same alternator with
part numbers ending in -12, -3, -6 and -9 indicating the clocking
of the two wires going into the side of the three wire alternator.
That can make a difference if you want to tuck it up under the
hood out of the way and/or keep water out of the wires.
With a -3 the wires rubbed my governor linkage.
A -6 put the wires at the bottom so the linkage wasn't an issue and
water wouldn't rain directly into the connector if it were left outside.

 

[Colin King]

Thanks, Royse! You've been a huge help. I'll keep you posted.

Colin

 

[Destroked 450]

(quoted from post at 19:03:38 06/21/16) Poultry litter does amazing things out on the field. Sounds like you have a pretty big operation. I'm on the hobby scale by comparison. What do you raise?

Colin

Yea it makes great fertilizer, we use it on hay fields, pastures and the few acres of corn we raise to feed cattle. We're getting 7-8 4x5 rolls of grass hay per acre and have spent less than $3000 on fertilizer in 9 years on our 125 acre farm.
We have three 500 ft poultry barns and raise broilers for a major food supplier. Not really a big operation but all my wife wants to mess with. She raises the chickens, I maintain the equipment and clean up the mess.

Not sure about the pulley on you generator but I had my Lucas pulley bored to fit the Delco alternator. If the Delco isn't clocked the way you need it you can insert a paper clip or small wire through the hole in the back to hold the brushes, then take the four case bolts out and turn the back of the alternator to the position that works best for you, after it's bolted back together remove to wire and it's ready to go. The kit for my 5000 had the alternator clocked at 3:00 sticking the top wires against the head and the tach drive pointing at a power steering line so I reclocked it to 6:00 and everything worked better there.
The conversion kits say you can use the factory belt but on my -000 series I found that using one a size longer worked better.

 

[souNdguy]

when you get a chance see what actually burned. may be a simple as a bare wire rubbing.

 

[Colin King]

I sure will. Hope to get into it tomorrow.

 

[souNdguy]

Good luck.

 

[Colin King]

Thanks for the tip on adjusting the back of the Delco. I picked one up yesterday. My hope is to start working on it tomorrow, time allowing.

Colin