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Ultradog MN

Ultradog MN

Well-known Member
Location
Twin Cities
It's finally time to get a squirt gun.
I'm an old stick man. Held a couple of certifications in an earlier life.
Know some about welding but nothing about wire feed.
But wire is so much cleaner and more practical.
Have a good dealer who I've dealt with since 1979. He would do some trading.
My pal Kenny would contribute a giant old 3 ph Miller which is probably scrap value.
Such a shame. It's stick or mig. 400? Amp. Works perfect.
He has a spool for aluminum too which the dealer said he'd like to see.
I have 100' per side of double nought cables that he might give something for.
It's time for them them to go anyway and hopefully not as copper.
He sells Miller and some yellow unit. Should gave grabbed a brochure on the yellow one.
I think I want 220 but he said they'll work 110 and 220. What does running it on one versus the other give you?
The portability of dual voltage would be nice.
I can't see myself using it to weld over 1/8". I still have DC stick for heavier.
Want to weld some tractor sheet metal mower decks, tubing.
Just thinking about it here.
He said he can get me a Hobart too. Made by Miller now, in Wisconsin.
Cheaper than a Miller.
Wonder if the parts are made in China and assembled here. Hope not.
Maybe I ought to take a night class this winter and learn about squirt guns first. Take my own advice to others here...
I just know I need to get a wirefeed welder one of these days and I have a lot to learn.
 
(quoted from post at 03:35:39 09/29/19) It's finally time to get a squirt gun.
I'm an old stick man. Held a couple of certifications in an earlier life.
Know some about welding but nothing about wire feed.
But wire is so much cleaner and more practical.
Have a good dealer who I've dealt with since 1979. He would do some trading.
My pal Kenny would contribute a giant old 3 ph Miller which is probably scrap value.
Such a shame. It's stick or mig. 400? Amp. Works perfect.
He has a spool for aluminum too which the dealer said he'd like to see.
I have 100' per side of double nought cables that he might give something for.
It's time for them them to go anyway and hopefully not as copper.
He sells Miller and some yellow unit. Should gave grabbed a brochure on the yellow one.
I think I want 220 but he said they'll work 110 and 220. What does running it on one versus the other give you?
The portability of dual voltage would be nice.
I can't see myself using it to weld over 1/8". I still have DC stick for heavier.
Want to weld some tractor sheet metal mower decks, tubing.
Just thinking about it here.
He said he can get me a Hobart too. Made by Miller now, in Wisconsin.
Cheaper than a Miller.
Wonder if the parts are made in China and assembled here. Hope not.
Maybe I ought to take a night class this winter and learn about squirt guns first. Take my own advice to others here...
I just know I need to get a wirefeed welder one of these days and I have a lot to learn.
Click to expand...
The yellow one might have been ESAB. That name is usually associated with top quality. I'm told the feed system of a Hobart is inferior to the Miller. Less metal, more plastic. The dual voltage machines can do heavier material on 220 with a longer duty cycle.
 
We had the president of Miller at a meeting a few years ago.He said we would never see a Miller at a box store and
what I have seen setting on the box stores shelves, the Miller will have infinite adjustments and the Yellow will
have four settings,the parts numbers, sometimes are the same, but not near all. The thing to watch out for when
using a 115V welder is the Duty Cycle. I saw an ad last week for a MIG noname for sale, 20% DC, really, it takes
me ten minutes to set the wire speed :) Miller has a great system,plug in the adaptor, plug that into the wall
and weld. The inverter stuff is hard to beat, and easy to move around the shop. Red or Blue both build great
machines.
 
The new Hobart stuff is cheaper built. Not the it isn?t usable or good for occasional use but things like aluminum windings instead of copper etc. Also the Hobart has a much more fluid puddle than a similar Miller. Makes it easier to weld like a pro in no time, but can be challenging on any out of position work.

For 1/8th or less, a 180 amp 120v machine will do all you need. But once you start on wire feed, you will wonder why you waited all these years and wish you could do most everything with it.
 
I?ll say upfront that I?m only a hobby welder. However, I?ve learned a boatload about various types of machines from the two sites below. If you don?t already know the differences between flux core & true mig (I mean more than just no-gas/gas) then i suggest reading before buying. It?s like wading into the YTDOT arguments, there are many opinions.
Welding Web
 
I have a Hobart 180 (I think). Have had it for about 15 years now.

If you're careful, you can weld R panel with it. I have also welded some 1 1/8 solid rounds together with it (It was for a blow-away-proof picnic table, no stress to worry about). It's been involved in two "incidents" that involved end-over tumbling along the ground (don't ask) and still going.

All replacement parts have been Miller and were identical to the ones that came off. I'm not sure what's going on with the Miller vs. Hobart branding.

I mainly use plain wire and gas but have used the flux core with it for outdoor use. The flux core works but makes a not pretty weld.

They have some multi process machines out there now that will do stick, Mig and Tig. You might find you needed a Tig setup and didn't know it.
 
Ultradog MN; The night class is a good idea. If they run a good class teaching wire feed, you'll be able to make a more informed decision about what to buy. I prefer stick because I don't have a shop where I can leave a wire feed welder set up (though I own one), and it's easy to haul out one of my inverter stick welders to do a job. I can't deny that SMAW (MIG) would be a better choice in many cases. 1/16" (16 gauge) steel is as thin as I can weld with stick, and I'm not really good at it, but it's a breeze with SMAW running .023 wire, and you can weld metal thinner than that. And repetitive jobs like a steel railing I rebuilt a couple of years ago get really tiresome having to chip slag and wire brush each weld before I could move on. I'd advise against buying a 120 volt machine. It might be all you ever need, but then again, it might not. It's unlikely that you'll ever regret having more power than you need, but you will regret not having enough.

Stan
 
Term confusion (not a flame!!!) SMAW is Shielded Metal Arc Welding informally called "Stick" welding. TIG is Tungsten Inert Gas (usually hand fed filler into a gas shielded moving puddle, but can be automated). MIG (Metal Inert Gas) Wire Feed. Jim
 


I'll tell you this much. I've been playing with MIG for a couple years now and it's a LOT different from stick. It's like starting out all over again.
 
" Hobart too Made by Miller' Miller and Hobart are two separate companies that have nothing to do with each other except being both owned by ITC . Hobart is not made by Miller. 110 is to be avoided.
 
I bought a Miller 211 several years ago. It is both 110v or 220v. I am very happy with it. I had a flux core machine years ago but hated it. I would never go with flux core again because of poor penetration and crappy looking welds. I have welded very thin sheet metal with the 211 using .024 wire and up to 1/2" on .035 wire.
The very next year Miller came out with the 215, it also does TIG along with MIG. I purchased a spool gun with my 211 but have not used it yet. Like was said, duty cycle on the 220v is much better vs the 110v, but I have welded away from my garage where I had to run it on 110v extesion cord.
We have a Miller 211 at work, and I talked to our pipefitters and boilermakers what they thought about the Miller 211 before I purchased a wire feed for myself, and they liked the machine for whar it is, They have very big MIG welders that weld all day with 100% duty cycle. I figured if they liked it it was good enough for me.
 
The yellow one is likely esab, I had one and even tho it worked ok I didn't like it because the fan made too much noise. I've had a bunch of Miller welders as well as the esab, a thermal Dynamics, and several Lincolns, my current wire feed is a Miller. If I had my choice and was going to buy again it would be a Lincoln. They have a smoother arc and use less consumables. My Miller is called a vintage and is a newer version of the old Miller matic 200, the welder that made Miller's reputation and which they have never been able to match since. Miller's work ok for steel and for what you are doing, but you can really see the difference on things like a spool gun. You would need to run both a Miller and a Lincoln side by side to tell the difference. The Miller is a good welder, just not as good as Lincoln in my book.
 
Jim;

Thanks. I shouldn't try to think at the end of a workday---it aggravates my forgetfulness. I knew that what I was talking about was GMAW, and I had plenty of opportunity to catch my mistake, but I didn't. Whether I'll still know it a few years from now is something I try not to think about. I realize that it reduces a person's credibility when they don't seem to know what they're talking about.

Stan
 

Have a dual voltage miller.. love it. weld a lot of stuff now that I used to have to throw away. But do a LOT of fluxcore wire as I well outside almost always,,, in the wind. Finally got a miller plasma cutter was well, dual voltage. Good for most cutting. Dual voltage lets me weld in a lot of places that a 220volt welder cant go, but try to stay on 220 at the shop with a very long 220v extension cord with 20 amp 220 plugs on all 4 walls and one 50 amp in the center with a big cord for it.
 
You were credible Stan and made a good, helpful post. Thanks.
And as far as not remembering, as long as you can still bond the pieces of metal together who cares if you forgot what that's called.
 
Ultradog MN,
My stick welder works well repairing most of my things, rusty metal.
My 220v wire welder has a bottle and was used in a body shop.
It works best on rust free metal. Flux wire doesn't leave a clean weld, slag.
I find it hard to weld dirty rusted out mower decks.
 
I have a 120 volt lincoln machine it about 20 years old now and lots has changed in machines since then. I would say buy the 240 volt machine. I thought at the time portability would be the ticket on the 120 machine but the few times i extended it out i was running near maximum output and can hear the fan slow as i weld. More than half the time i use it it is near maximum as at the highest setting it will trip a 20 amp circuit so to run at max it needs a 25 amp circuit. The 240 machines used to give slightly more duty cycle and would think due to lower input current across the rectifier that would still be true.

The other reason i bought this machine was the infinitely variable output voltage setting instead of most having 6 or maybe 8 steps. It was really useful for working light gauge materials. If i were to replace that would be a deciding factor for me again. I know on the miller 210? They have a variable output voltage setting as well but again thats an older machine now.
 
I've got a Lincoln SP175, 2 dials to adjust (pwr & speed). I run a bottle and it is a great 220v machine.

Been looking into the dual power Millers and can't justify the $2k price tag.

One of my sons did the 4H welding project, they use Stick exclusively. He used my old Tombstone and did well with it. When he was finished I handed him the MIG and had him do a comparison..... He wanted to know why I made him do the stick, said with all the frustration and ugly welds he can't believe I keep the Stick around at all!

Do yourself a favor and get an auto-darkening helmet for MIG, & have a well lit welding bench. You won't regret the change.
 
UD,

I did the stick thing for about 25 years, and then was encouraged to get a MIG machine by my oldest son. I did not make the transition easily, and believed the stories about no penetration with MIG. My first MIG machine was a Century 160 amp bought from your nearest NordEast welding supply shop. It was a happy day when I got the Century, and an even much happier day when I traded it off for a well used gravity box (grain wagon). I found the ESAB Multimaster 260 at Toll Welding and tried it out in their demo area. The arc characteristics were phenomenal. I ponied up to the bar and bought it in 2001, and as I was about to leave the store with my NEW purchase, I bought a used ESAB 875 plasma cutter. Back story: My oldest daughter was about to get married, and my wife would not tell me what the various wedding things were costing. So I said "damm, if I'm going to be broke, I might as well have something I want." She was a little miffed as she doesn't understand "guy logic". But, It all worked out OK.

So now, almost 20 years later, both of my sons have the same model ESAB welders and similar Plasma cutters in their shops. All 3 machines have been good and have done a lot of repair welding and some fabrication. The arc characteristics of the ESAB have been very good. Much of our repair welding is on rusty farm equipment, sometimes I grind a clean V, and sometimes I just let it do the cleaning with its arc. We haven't had any problems with weld cracking or failures. The MIG is fast to set up, allows repeated weld passes without any cleanup and gives a good looking weld ready for immediate painting. We use .035 wire almost exclusively, but the machines are built to run .023, .035, and .045.
Serious welders all take 240 V on 50 amp breakers, but if you are not pushing the machines to max output, then you can adequately get by with 40 amp breakers. I have never tripped the 40 A breakers in our shops.

If you want to try MIG, and get a few lessons, give me a call. With what you already know about welding, I'll have you making decent MIG welds in less than 2 hours. You've got my #. Beginning lessons are free and so is the coffee. Looking forward to seeing you again.

Paul in MN
 

I brought a Miller 250 used around 2000 its worked great for me I have sewed up tractor tin with it with .035 wire but should have put a smaller gauge wire in the machine.

I could never drop down the 250 had taken on all comers..
 
UD, I was taught to weld many moons ago. Guys that worked with my dad taught me. They said that if you learn stick you can learn wire real easy. How true. Taught my son stick and now he won't use anything but wire. Need something welded with stick and makes the old man do it. He bought a real nice Miller and won't even let me use it. Get a Miller or a Lincoln and go for it.
 
Right now on the Minneapolis CL there are two millermatic 200's for sale.
Both have the optional pulse panel.
The white face machine is older than the black face but looks like brand new with lots of accessories.
I would investigate the white face without hesitation and see why it looks like new.
Might have been in a hobby shop an seldom used.
 
Paul said

"So I said "damm, if I'm going to be broke, I might as well have something I want." She was a little miffed as she doesn't understand "guy logic"."

Now that's funny, glad I'm not the only one...I've had similar conversations.

If you really want to start a "conversation", say something along the lines of ' At the estate sale, my stuff will bring good money, your stuff will have a hard time getting dollar bids'....use at your own peril
 
I own a sheet metal and steel fab shop . We work from 24 gauge to 1/2" plate. Have 3 110 volt Miller's for all our light work . Been excellent machines.
 
I learned how to stick weld in 1973 as a freshman in High School. About two years ago I needed a job, got in as an assembly welder at Winnebago. I had never ran a MIG unit and hadn't done much welding at all for 10-15 years. Took my MIG welding test after a day's practice and passed. I don't think I'd want to go back to stick. In a day's work I'll weld anything form 16 or 18 gauge to 1/4" plate. Heck they were surprised when I started as my reject rate was never more than a 1/3 of what they expected, I was slow but didn't have to many parts rejected. Now I can make rate most days and about 1/2 the time beat it.
 
Fred,

There is a lot of truth to your advice. I have had the same thoughts, but knowing who is the real cook, and realizing that my own cooking skill is still at 2nd class Boy Scout level, I just have never been brave enough to make that comment. But I do wonder what I'll do with the 100+ "Precious Moments" figurines which reside on the fireplace mantle and the top of the piano... if she goes before I do. Oh well, I don't need to solve that problem now.

Thanks for your comment.

Paul in MN
 
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