Jammed Starter Motor Bendix Gear

[JJB7]

Last week I installed a new starter motor (12V) and Bendix drive into my (12v converted) 8N. The new Bendix has the newer "coarser" spiral. After installed, I tested the startup a few times and everything engaged and worked great.

Today, I started the tractor and it immediately had a loud "ratcheting" sound coming from the starter. I immediately shut the engine off and repeated the startup two more times, all with the same loud noise.
I decided to remove the motor for inspection, but after the through-bolts were removed, the motor would barely wiggle, and not come free. Eventually, the front end cap and housing became unseated and I slid them from the armature and remaining end cap. The rear end cap and armature are now stuck in place.

By rocking the tractor in gear, the armature turned a bit and wiggles, but there is less than a quarter-inch clearance between the end cap and tractor mounting surface. I'm stumped as to what is hanging up, and, how to proceed in getting the parts free from the engine. When I installed the motor, I inspected the teeth on the flywheel ring gear and they appeared fine.

Any help would be appreciated. I saw a similar post on here and it was recommended to simply pry between the end plate and the tractor mounting surface. Any advice on that, or any other method? Thanks!

 

[Royse]

Welcome to the forum!
I've never had one jammed in there that badly but you might try
turning the engine backwards a bit to see if that will help free it.

 

[Dollar Bill]

Bendix is engaging the ring gear on the starter. Normally, the drive gear disengages and retracts when the engine starts.

Multiple ways to try free the starter - Here are a few in order of severity:
1. With a socket on the front crank pulley rotate the engine backwards just a bit to loosen and hopefully free the starter.
2. Remove the plugs and pull the tractor backwards with the transmission in fourth gear.
3. Remove the starter housing and use a pipe wrench to turn the starter shaft clockwise a few revolutions. New starter required.
4. Hacksaw the starter shaft. New starter required. Be sure to hold the starter drive so it doesn't fall into the clutch cavity.
5. Split the tractor and remove the Bendix from the clutch side.

Welcome to the forum and best of luck with this challenging task!

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 23:35:48 02/25/18) Bendix is engaging the ring gear on the starter. Normally, the drive gear disengages and retracts when the engine starts.

Multiple ways to try free the starter - Here are a few in order of severity:
1. With a socket on the front crank pulley rotate the engine backwards just a bit to loosen and hopefully free the starter.
2. Remove the plugs and pull the tractor backwards with the transmission in fourth gear.
3. Remove the starter housing and use a pipe wrench to turn the starter shaft clockwise a few revolutions. New starter required.
4. Hacksaw the starter shaft. New starter required. Be sure to hold the starter drive so it doesn't fall into the clutch cavity.
5. Split the tractor and remove the Bendix from the clutch side.

Welcome to the forum and best of luck with this challenging task!

That new small gear reduction starter that engages the front of the flywheel and is sitting in my storage shed is looking mighty good after reading this thread. :shock: Hmm...I purchased it as a replacement if needed but now I'm thinking about changing it now.

 

[Dollar Bill]

That new small gear reduction starter that engages the front of the flywheel and is sitting in my storage shed is looking mighty good after reading this thread.

I have never understood Henry's design idea for putting the Bendix on the back side of the flywheel?

 

[Tall T]

(quoted from post at 00:10:37 02/27/18)

That new small gear reduction starter that engages the front of the flywheel and is sitting in my storage shed is looking mighty good after reading this thread.

I have never understood Henry's design idea for putting the Bendix on the back side of the flywheel?

Maybe it was Ferguson's brainchild. considering he was Irish, and that the starters in the three British 1958 Austin's I've had (still have one) are all that style of bendix.
Never had trouble with any of them.

 

[JJB7]

Thank you both for the tips!

It is a new starter and Bendix, with about 6 starts on it. I'm going to check with the shop that sold the unit to me, for additional advice on how to proceed, should they have some knowledge on
the subject. I?m also trying to make contact with someone that was highly recommended for solving the problem with these 8Ns. We?ll see if there is something new to learn.

Before I posted here today:
? I did rock the tractor wheel back and forth while in 4th gear. The armature jerked back and forth, but no luck. I also twisted the armature in both directions with some movement.
? I also pulled the tractor backward (10 ft.) with my Jeep, and again the armature spun, but still jammed. Before doing this step, I did put two short bolts through the endplate and secured it to
the tractor in hopes that the gear would spin away from the flywheel.

It seems that if there was simply a hole in the tractor frame, perhaps in the chamber for the Bendix drive, that the gear could be driven backward. I don?t know at this point. If something
miraculous happens and it gets freed up without splitting the tractor, I?ll let you know. Thanks again!

 

[R Geiger]

You probably have spent more time on it already than what it would take to split the tractor. I would split it before I did more harm to the starter. It very well may be damaged already tho.

 

[souNdguy]

get a fat flat chisle, biggest one ya got... drive it between starter cap and bell housing.. just get it started, then give it a
good rap. It can pop the drive free.. or.. if unlucky.. damage the starter end plate.

good luck, we are all counting on you.

 

[JJB7]

Soundguy, you're advice is what did the trick! I first jammed a motorcycle tire pry bar in on the engine side. Then, I carefully tapped in my 4-inch-wide flat chisel on the opposite side, keeping pressure as even as I could. It didn't take much of a tap to release the motor from the flywheel.
I'll return the starter assembly to the shop and have it checked out and reassembled. Now, the big question is, what is the cause of this happening in the first place?

Soundguy, if you're nearby, I'll gladly buy you and the rest of gang here a beer...or whatever you choose to imbibe. Thanks again. I hope this posting is resolved, BUT, if something of value to all of us becomes known, I'll let you know. Thanks again!

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 14:38:47 02/27/18)

Soundguy, you're advice is what did the trick! I first jammed a motorcycle tire pry bar in on the engine side. Then, I carefully tapped in my 4-inch-wide flat chisel on the opposite side, keeping pressure as even as I could. It didn't take much of a tap to release the motor from the flywheel.
I'll return the starter assembly to the shop and have it checked out and reassembled. Now, the big question is, what is the cause of this happening in the first place?

Soundguy, if you're nearby, I'll gladly buy you and the rest of gang here a beer...or whatever you choose to imbibe. Thanks again. I hope this posting is resolved, BUT, if something of value to all of us becomes known, I'll let you know. Thanks again!

Congrats ! Good to hear you got it out. Good idea to stabilize the other side of it like you did before attacking the outside edge.

 

[JJB7]

Thanks! Yes, the flat tire iron fitted perfectly in the allotted gap between the end cover and engine.
Then, by the time the chisel was tapped into place, everything was snugged up and evenly "gapped." I wanted to get the gear to go straight out of the flywheel without dragging/binding, which I believe is why the mild blow to the chisel made it disengage.

I'm certainly relieved over the situation, as splitting the tractor is not outside my limitations, but it seems needlessly complicated in order to rectify a problem such as this. I've worked on enough machinery in my lifetime to know that old equipment can have a myriad of problems upon disassembly after years of rusting, seizing etc.; all covered by a nice paint job. I'm sure you know what I mean. Thanks again!

 

[JJB7]

Soundguy, I hope you got my post back to you. I think my reply was posted on someone else's reply. Your trick worked! 69-year-old tractors are enough for me to master, let alone all this new technology, which in itself is often needlessly complicated!

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 19:57:29 02/27/18)
Soundguy, I hope you got my post back to you. I think my reply was posted on someone else's reply. Your trick worked! 69-year-old tractors are enough for me to master, let alone all this new technology, which in itself is often needlessly complicated!

There is lots of mystery in these old machines, like the guy that sweats and struggles all day trying to get a starter back in that hole and finally gives up to come back the next morning and it slips right in on the first try !!!

No one has been able to figure out this mystery. I guess it's a combination of the weather and how your holding your mouth when you try it. Could even be what your had for breakfast.