brian stanek
Member
is the 2-53 Detroit diesel in the 1010 crawler considered a reliable engine?
I don't think the 1010 came with a 2-53 Detroit. They were used in the 430 and 440 crawlers, but the 1010 had their own 4 cylinder engine that was not one of John Deere's best efforts, especially if it was an early one. The later versions were a little better. Maybe someone swapped out the crappy 1010 four cylinder for a 2-53. It would be pretty near a bolt in change.
CPeter
CPeter
brian stanek
Member
ya I had a 440 with a gas but knew they also had the 2cl Detroit. the owner says it is the two cyl so maybe someone swapped it out. as far as the engine and machine are they reasonably reliable?
Jim.ME
Well-known Member
- Location
- central ME
The 2-53 is much more dependable than the JD 4 cylinder of that vintage and parts are available. It may be slightly less power, but they were built for years and I would consider the engine reliable.
As for the crawler, my thoughts are it is one step newer than the 440 you said you had, so would be similar. Did you consider your 440 reasonably reliable?. How reliable it will be depends on more than the engine. How is the rest of the drive train, hydraulic system, and undercarriage? Tracks and some other undercarriage parts may have to be converted to 350 parts if you need any. Like a 440 series crawler, a 1010 can still do a lot of work if the operator isn't in a hurry and treats it right, but it is not a machine I would chose if I was looking for production on a regular basis. So it somewhat depends on your plans for a crawler. JMHO
As for the crawler, my thoughts are it is one step newer than the 440 you said you had, so would be similar. Did you consider your 440 reasonably reliable?. How reliable it will be depends on more than the engine. How is the rest of the drive train, hydraulic system, and undercarriage? Tracks and some other undercarriage parts may have to be converted to 350 parts if you need any. Like a 440 series crawler, a 1010 can still do a lot of work if the operator isn't in a hurry and treats it right, but it is not a machine I would chose if I was looking for production on a regular basis. So it somewhat depends on your plans for a crawler. JMHO
Do you actually have a 1010 crawler with a Detroit in it? Deere never made one. The older 440 2 cylinder crawlers had it as an option and I
think Deere used a special adapter to make it fit the transmission. Since the later 1010 uses the same transmission bolt pattern as the two-
cylinder gas engine, I suppose the 2-53 could be made to fit somehow. The original 1010 four-cylinder engines are built well enough. Parts
availability has always been an issue though. Even back when they were only 20 years old, there was little aftermarket parts support. I
still have my first-year 1010 crawler-loader with the original engine and it has been a great machine. I still use it a lot. I suspect with
the diesels, a lack of understanding of how to use and maintain them was a big issue. More so then poor design.
Detroits are certainly rugged enough and have good parts support. Poor starters in cold weather though. At least that is case for all I have
ever had. If it was my Deere 1010, I'd rather have an original engine in good shape. Mine is a 1960 and I rebuilt the engine around 15 years
ago. Not because it had failed. It was in a barn-fire.
think Deere used a special adapter to make it fit the transmission. Since the later 1010 uses the same transmission bolt pattern as the two-
cylinder gas engine, I suppose the 2-53 could be made to fit somehow. The original 1010 four-cylinder engines are built well enough. Parts
availability has always been an issue though. Even back when they were only 20 years old, there was little aftermarket parts support. I
still have my first-year 1010 crawler-loader with the original engine and it has been a great machine. I still use it a lot. I suspect with
the diesels, a lack of understanding of how to use and maintain them was a big issue. More so then poor design.
Detroits are certainly rugged enough and have good parts support. Poor starters in cold weather though. At least that is case for all I have
ever had. If it was my Deere 1010, I'd rather have an original engine in good shape. Mine is a 1960 and I rebuilt the engine around 15 years
ago. Not because it had failed. It was in a barn-fire.
brian stanek
Member
no it is one that is for sale, and have not even looked at it. wanted to know more about them even before I go look at the machine. apparently the 2 cyl has been rebuilt but never run. it is missing the complete reverser unit. the rest according to the owner is supposed to be in relatively good shape? that's all I know
We did just as many engine repairs and/or rebuilds on Detroit 2-strokes as we did on 1010 Deere four-strokes. Main difference - at least
to me - is the Detroits start harder when cold, are noisy, leaky, but parts are easier to get (as compared to the 1010 engine).
Nothing wrong with a 1010 engine - gas or diesel when in good shape. If in bad shape and you need parts to rebuild - THAT can be a
different story. But, you can say the same for other parts of the older crawlers - 1010s and the later 350s. Some are parts for the
reversers, finals, transmissions and hydraulics are getting high priced and scarce.
I will note that if it diesel you want, the 2-53 is only 106 cubic inches. The 1010 diesel is much bigger at 144 cubic inches. 1010 gas
engine is much smaller and near the same size as a two cylinder gas engine. 1010 four-cylinder gas is 115 cubic inches and a 430 gas
engine with two cylinders is 113 cubic inches.
I love my 1010 crawler. First year 1960 model. I had a harder time finding parts to fix the hydraulic pump then I did rebuilding the
engine. In 1960, they used Webster-Electric pumps. Later on, Deere switched to Cessna and they are more common.
to me - is the Detroits start harder when cold, are noisy, leaky, but parts are easier to get (as compared to the 1010 engine).
Nothing wrong with a 1010 engine - gas or diesel when in good shape. If in bad shape and you need parts to rebuild - THAT can be a
different story. But, you can say the same for other parts of the older crawlers - 1010s and the later 350s. Some are parts for the
reversers, finals, transmissions and hydraulics are getting high priced and scarce.
I will note that if it diesel you want, the 2-53 is only 106 cubic inches. The 1010 diesel is much bigger at 144 cubic inches. 1010 gas
engine is much smaller and near the same size as a two cylinder gas engine. 1010 four-cylinder gas is 115 cubic inches and a 430 gas
engine with two cylinders is 113 cubic inches.
I love my 1010 crawler. First year 1960 model. I had a harder time finding parts to fix the hydraulic pump then I did rebuilding the
engine. In 1960, they used Webster-Electric pumps. Later on, Deere switched to Cessna and they are more common.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
As previously stated, the 2-53 from a 440 is a drop in swap regarding the belhousing on a 1010 or 2010.
A properly built 2-53 with the N series pistons and sleeves with the valves installed without being sunk. Along with C40 or C45 injectors . That Detroit will start as well as any other cold diesel without glowplugs or an intake grid heater .
With C45 s a 2-53 will net about 65-70HP at 2400rpm. The valvetrain springs and seals should be updated .
A block heater bolts right into the front left coolant manifold on the 53 series so cold starts are a mute point .
RE your statement . . "That Detroit will start as well as any other cold diesel without glowplugs or an intake grid heater. . ."
First - that is sort of an apples to oranges comparison, taken in the context here. 1010 diesel is an IDI diesel, and a Detroit is a DI.
So the IDI is required to use glow plugs at any temp for starting. A DI Detroit is not.
That said, a properly setup 1010 diesel will easily out-start a Detroit when no outside aid from a heater is used (e.g. a block heater).
1010 diesels with properly working glow-plugs and hand-pump fuel primer could start at zero degrees F. I doubt there is a Detroit two-
stroke that ever came near that.
On the subject now of just DI diesels? Many of the older Dubuque Deere diesels with no glow plug, manifold heater or block heater fired
right up at 20 degrees F. Again, I have never - ever - come across a 2-53 or 3-53 that came close (using ether does not count).
For some reason, many of the Deere DI diesels became bad cold starters around when the ag 40 series came out (2940) and the industrial C
series (350C-450C crawlers).
I worked on many a Deere with the 2-53. We also sold a lot of off-brand log skidders with 3-53s. I also still own two machines with 3-53s.
Never come across one yet that would fire up at 20 degrees F with no help from an aux heater or ether). My old Case DI 188 will. So does
my 1992 Dodge truck with the DI 5.9 Cummins even if I do not use the grid-heater.
First - that is sort of an apples to oranges comparison, taken in the context here. 1010 diesel is an IDI diesel, and a Detroit is a DI.
So the IDI is required to use glow plugs at any temp for starting. A DI Detroit is not.
That said, a properly setup 1010 diesel will easily out-start a Detroit when no outside aid from a heater is used (e.g. a block heater).
1010 diesels with properly working glow-plugs and hand-pump fuel primer could start at zero degrees F. I doubt there is a Detroit two-
stroke that ever came near that.
On the subject now of just DI diesels? Many of the older Dubuque Deere diesels with no glow plug, manifold heater or block heater fired
right up at 20 degrees F. Again, I have never - ever - come across a 2-53 or 3-53 that came close (using ether does not count).
For some reason, many of the Deere DI diesels became bad cold starters around when the ag 40 series came out (2940) and the industrial C
series (350C-450C crawlers).
I worked on many a Deere with the 2-53. We also sold a lot of off-brand log skidders with 3-53s. I also still own two machines with 3-53s.
Never come across one yet that would fire up at 20 degrees F with no help from an aux heater or ether). My old Case DI 188 will. So does
my 1992 Dodge truck with the DI 5.9 Cummins even if I do not use the grid-heater.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
My old 435 with the updated 2-53 has fired up at 25F after half a dozen turns . Not bad for for any DI engine .
No shame in using a block heater .
brian stanek
Member
so it is my understanding the 2-53 Detroit will not bolt up to the 1010 trans? this is from people who have been wrecking jd crawlers for many years
John Deere 1010 engine has a Deere proprietary bolt pattern for engine mounting, same as the older two-cylninder Deere gas engines.
Detroit 2-53 uses a standard SAE bolt pattern and does NOT match Deere. I never looked close or cared - but I assume Deere used some sort of
adapter to make the 2-53 fit the Deere transmission in the 440 series. If Detroit actually made Deere-special 2-53s, I can be corrected, but
I doubt it.
Even if you had an adapter to make a Detroit fit a 1010 trans - how are you going to make the flywheel work to power the reverser? How are
you going to mount the front hydraulic pump? Sounds like an engineering mess to me.
Detroit 2-53 uses a standard SAE bolt pattern and does NOT match Deere. I never looked close or cared - but I assume Deere used some sort of
adapter to make the 2-53 fit the Deere transmission in the 440 series. If Detroit actually made Deere-special 2-53s, I can be corrected, but
I doubt it.
Even if you had an adapter to make a Detroit fit a 1010 trans - how are you going to make the flywheel work to power the reverser? How are
you going to mount the front hydraulic pump? Sounds like an engineering mess to me.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Technically the 2-53 doesn't need to bolt to trans but to clutch housing. BTW I looked in both 435 & 440 parts catalog but saw no adapter plate that would fit between engine & clutch housing.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Clutch housing not bell housing .
As to your comment . ."Clutch housing not bell housing ."
I cannot agree. Bell-housing is simply an old connotation for the part of an adapter housing or transmission housing that covers the
flywheel and is bell-shaped in a way.
In the context of a Deere 1010? For my 1960 crawler, there is a reverser housing and a transmission housing. The reverser housing is the
part that has the "bell housing." There is NO clutch inside of it.
I cannot agree. Bell-housing is simply an old connotation for the part of an adapter housing or transmission housing that covers the
flywheel and is bell-shaped in a way.
In the context of a Deere 1010? For my 1960 crawler, there is a reverser housing and a transmission housing. The reverser housing is the
part that has the "bell housing." There is NO clutch inside of it.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
There is an identical bolt pattern on a 440IC assembly as there is on a two cylinder Dubuque or a 1010/2010.
brian stanek
Member
so by what I am reading on here the 2-53 should bolt up to the 1010 reverser? that is bolt pattern wise. to bad the owner in this case cant give me more history as to what the previous owner had done with the reverser.
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