Jd 3020 rebuilt no start, timing?

[davisken72]

Hello all, I have a 3020 gas that i have completely rebuilt as a project on and off. Before I begin I’ll add I have never had it run it sat under a tree for 30+ years. I completely rebuilt the engine bearings, liners, pistons, rings, head. The whole deal. Literally nothing is origonal. Finally got around to crank it up and I cannot even get it to fire.i believe I may have two problems 1st I have great spark especially after putting in a new wiring harness. Timing? Second, The carb has an issue I have to resolve as it is flooding gas back to the intake but I believe that is the needle sticking. Carb is full, intake is damp but plugs are dry. Carb is rebuilt and a zenith. It is pulling good vacuum when cranking. Upon rebuilding the engine the oil pump was out and I did have the service manual and remember having to time the oil pump and then the distributor 15 degrees off of a certain point which I cannot recall. I’m curious if anyone can tell me what the proper procedure would have been to time the oil pump and also they can make any sense of this. I am confident the oil pump was installed correctly but it was some ago now. Shouldn’t I at least be able to get it to fire if the timing isn’t spot on? Thanks
(Just a pic of doing the engine)

 

[wore out]

Hello all, I have a 3020 gas that i have completely rebuilt as a project on and off. Before I begin I’ll add I have never had it run it sat under a tree for 30+ years. I completely rebuilt the engine bearings, liners, pistons, rings, head. The whole deal. Literally nothing is origonal. Finally got around to crank it up and I cannot even get it to fire.i believe I may have two problems 1st I have great spark especially after putting in a new wiring harness. Timing? Second, The carb has an issue I have to resolve as it is flooding gas back to the intake but I believe that is the needle sticking. Carb is full, intake is damp but plugs are dry. Carb is rebuilt and a zenith. It is pulling good vacuum when cranking. Upon rebuilding the engine the oil pump was out and I did have the service manual and remember having to time the oil pump and then the distributor 15 degrees off of a certain point which I cannot recall. I’m curious if anyone can tell me what the proper procedure would have been to time the oil pump and also they can make any sense of this. I am confident the oil pump was installed correctly but it was some ago now. Shouldn’t I at least be able to get it to fire if the timing isn’t spot on? Thanks
(Just a pic of doing the engine)

The oil pump/distributor drive position on the gas version ISN'T critical compared to the diesel version because if the oil pump hasn't been timed "by the book" the distributor body can be rotated and the wires rearranged in the cap as needed to get the timing "right" for "1, then arrange the other wires in firing order in the direction of rotor rotation.

You need to find TDC on #1 at the end of it's compression stroke, position the distributor body so the points JUST start to open, then put the #1 sparkplug wire where the rotor points, and the others in firing order.

That should get it started, then check timing with a timing light at high idle.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Does it fire on ether? Distributor should be counter clockwise rotation. Firing order is stamped on exhaust manifold on left side.
Did you put a coil on? They must be a 6v coil unless you no longer have a resistor at key switch if you look under the parts for 3010 3020 it will list coil as 6v for this reason. It will not fire with wrong (12v) coil I tried.

 

[davisken72]

The oil pump/distributor drive position on the gas version ISN'T critical compared to the diesel version because if the oil pump hasn't been timed "by the book" the distributor body can be rotated and the wires rearranged in the cap as needed to get the timing "right" for "1, then arrange the other wires in firing order in the direction of rotor rotation.

You need to find TDC on #1 at the end of it's compression stroke, position the distributor body so the points JUST start to open, then put the #1 sparkplug wire where the rotor points, and the others in firing order.

That should get it started, then check timing with a timing light at high idle.

The oil pump/distributor drive position on the gas version ISN'T critical compared to the diesel version because if the oil pump hasn't been timed "by the book" the distributor body can be rotated and the wires rearranged in the cap as needed to get the timing "right" for "1, then arrange the other wires in firing order in the direction of rotor rotation.

You need to find TDC on #1 at the end of it's compression stroke, position the distributor body so the points JUST start to open, then put the #1 sparkplug wire where the rotor points, and the others in firing order.

That should get it started, then check timing with a timing light at high idle.

Thanks, that’s what I was figuring but wasn’t certain. Would you have any thoughts on the carb ?

 

[620 John]

Do what wore out said first.

My only question is has it backfired at all??? It seems like anytime a fresh engine is put together and started for the first time it doesn't want to fire at all even with spark and fuel. This is also true when engines have been stuck and then freed up using penetrating oil or ATF. It's like the oil that's in them from either a fresh rebuild or getting unstuck will prevent any firing from happening. Not saying that's your issue but it's something that I've run across.

One story comes to mind is I went over to a customer's place to help him get an old unstyled D running. He had installed new piston rings and had the head reworked. He couldn't get it to run, it would only backfire once in a while. I went over and checked for spark and there was none coming from the magneto. I took the mag off and got it working and went back to the guy's place a a few months later. I thought with the mag now working properly it should pop right off. But Noooo....... I spun that big heavy engine over by hand enough times one night I got tired and gave up. Didn't even try to fire. The customer said we can try it again later using a belt and another tractor. Went back a different day and just when I least expected it, after cranking 2 or 3 times, BANG it took off and ran on it's own. My theory is since he never got it to run after reassembling the engine, there was still oil in the cylinders. I'm guessing the first time I cranked on it the gas in the cylinders washed off excess oil in the combustion chamber and eventually dried up after sitting. Then when I came back a few days later it had a dryer combustion chamber which resulted in easier firing.

 

[davisken72]

Does it fire on ether? Distributor should be counter clockwise rotation. Firing order is stamped on exhaust manifold on left side.
Did you put a coil on? They must be a 6v coil unless you no longer have a resistor at key switch if you look under the parts for 3010 3020 it will list coil as 6v for this reason. It will not fire with wrong (12v) coil I tried.

It’s a 12 volt internally resisted coil so I have 1.5 ohm across the two terminals. It just backfired on either

 

[Fixingfarmer]

It’s a 12 volt internally resisted coil so I have 1.5 ohm across the two terminals. It just backfired on either

If that’s the case that’s most likely the problem. Run a jumper wire straight from battery to your coil and I bet it starts. Here’s a picture of the parts list 3010-3020 all the way through every serial number they use the same 6v coil with the extra resistor at the switch. You can either put the right coil on or run your own 12v wiring with switch fuse and wire.
I tried a 12v coil thinking it was a 12v system on one about a month ago and it didn’t work at all.

Don’t leave jumper on though for an extended period it will burn the points out preferably alligator clips and hook them up kinda quick safely start tractor then when you are done testing pull the alligator clip off battery side first reasonably quickly

 

[ET]

Backfiring often indicates a timing problem.

 

[davisken72]

If that’s the case that’s most likely the problem. Run a jumper wire straight from battery to your coil and I bet it starts. Here’s a picture of the parts list 3010-3020 all the way through every serial number they use the same 6v coil with the extra resistor at the switch. You can either put the right coil on or run your own 12v wiring with switch fuse and wire.
I tried a 12v coil thinking it was a 12v system on one about a month ago and it didn’t work at all.

Don’t leave jumper on though for an extended period it will burn the points out preferably alligator clips and hook them up kinda quick safely start tractor then when you are done testing pull the alligator clip off battery side first reasonably quickly

I will do that, I bought the wiring harness from brillman company in Virginia which came with the external resistor. I’ll put the 6 volts coil on

 

[Fixingfarmer]

I will do that, I bought the wiring harness from brillman company in Virginia which came with the external resistor. I’ll put the 6 volts coil on

Your 1.5 ohm should be correct that’s what a 6v should measure.

There should be a resistor on the back of the key switch. Are you saying there is also a resister that is in the new harness near the coil? I’d try it without that extra resistor if that’s the case they might be doubling it up

 

[davisken72]

Your 1.5 ohm should be correct that’s what a 6v should measure.

There should be a resistor on the back of the key switch. Are you saying there is also a resister that is in the new harness near the coil? I’d try it without that extra resistor if that’s the case they might be doubling it up

The key switch does not have it. The resister that is part of the wiring replaces the factory resistor wire.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

The key switch does not have it. The resister that is part of the wiring replaces the factory resistor wire.

20 series must be different than 10 in that respect there was a resister in a ceramic cover on the back of the 3010 switch. If that’s the case that would be a more common setup. It appears they all take the same coil though