JD 4020 hydraulic issue

[TigerPaw4020]

Last time I changed the hydraulic fluid filter, and cleaned the screen was 5 years ago, but only a few hours since the tractor gets very little use. At that time the screen area was full of junk and someone recommended adding a magnet to the center of the screen.

This time the screen area is mostly clean and the screen is clean except where the magnets are located. The magnets are covered with tiny, shiny, silver colored metal filings, about 1/8" thick all the way around the outside of the screen at the magnets and about 1/8' thick on the magnets inside the screen. There is no brass or rubber junk this time.

Is this normal for a 47 year old tractor or do I have a problem, and if so, where do I start to look for it. The tractor hydraulics, steering, brakes, 3 point, and cylinders work fine, as does the newly aquired 148 loader. The only reason that I am looking at it is that I blew a line on the loader and dumped a bunch of fluid before I knew it, so it seemed like a good time to take a look.

 

[D-]

Replace brakes as you should have five years ago.

 

[TigerPaw4020]

Previous owner claimed to have replaced brakes when he had tractor apart for engine overhaul. He and I and others thought the crud before was just left over, and I changed the filters and cleaned the screen a couple of times until nothing was there and it appeared to be OK.

Brakes appear to work OK, at least they stop when you mash em.

How do I check them to see if that is the problem?

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 12:07:12 06/25/14)


How do I check them to see if that is the problem?

Pull axle housings and look at pads

 

[TigerPaw4020]

(quoted from post at 12:23:17 06/25/14)

(quoted from post at 12:07:12 06/25/14)


How do I check them to see if that is the problem?

Pull axle housings and look at pads

So in other words you have to tear it apart to the point you might as well replace them anyway before you can tell if it needs them. Brilliant.?

 

[ET]

I think the brakes were replaced before you owned it
and you were just getting brake pads out last time
you changed the filter. The metal you are picking up
on the magnet is not abnormal for a transmission.
When I rebuild transmissions an gut the case there
is always an incredible amount of fine metal that
settles into nooks and cranny's in the transmission.
I would not worry about what you found if everything
works fine unless you have extra time and money to
throw around.

 

[TigerPaw4020]

Thanks ET. I think I will monitor it for a little while before I decide to bite the bullet and tear into it.

I believe I will save my HY $$$ HYGard and let the old fluid settle decant and reuse until I can change the filter and check the screen and magnets a few more times in the next few weeks to try to get all the filings out. Then I can replace the brakes or decide it is OK and put the new fluid in.

$160 for 10 gallons of fluid is a little steep to be flushing with.

 

[David G]

Is there a reason you serviced the filter?

I would leave the tractor alone if it working good with no issues.

 

[D-]

If previous owner replaced w/Kevlar you probably don't have a brake problem.

 

[tim s]

I agree with D-,, you may just be dealing with the residual filings from the original failure, you nearly need to split and steam clean the case ,and flush the lines to get rid of the filings, and I never put a magnet in the sump screen, but here and there in the case is a good idea,,my thoughts on not putting them in the screen is it will draw filings through the screen and the flow can suck the filings on through after they built up on the magnet,, in the case away from the flow the build up will stay put...

 

[TigerPaw4020]

I serviced the filter as I said earlier because I blew a line on the loader and lost a lot of fluid, so while the fluid level was already low, I decided to clean the screen and replace the filter. It had been 5 years although not too many hours.

Because of the previous crud in the system it seemed like a good idea, and I guess I was right based on what I found.

 

[TigerPaw4020]

Tim, when I put the magnets in I was mostly just trying to find out what all was still in the system. Are the filings normal transmission gear and bearing wear as ET indicated or do you think it indicates brake problems.

Is there anything else I can check, short of pulling the axle housings, to get a better idea of the status of the brakes?

 

[tim s]

If there was a previous brake failure, and the transmission was not thoroughly cleaned out, residual filings will be present till it is cleaned well. Those filings build up as the brakes are failing and look like grey paint sediments coating the bottom of the case, they will not flush clean without disassemble,,and cleaning the nooks and cranny's out.. And yes I pull a lot of final drives just to "Look"..it's the only way of telling for sure...If you want to pull your final drives and you don't have a set of wheel dolly's, you can use a shop floor crane,, jack the tractor wheel up and use the floor cranes lower legs to rest the wheel in and drop a chain down to the axle housing off the boom, then roll it away ..

 

[TigerPaw4020]

Can I do 1 side at a time or is it best to take both sides off at the same time?

 

[David G]

I would not worry anymore if it is working OK.

 

[tim s]

Yes one side at a time, it will be safer that way,, and if it was mine I would look...when your ready to work on it mail me and I'll walk you through it..

 

[TigerPaw4020]

Thanks Tim.

I am clearing the area for my new shop now and would like to wait until I get it built as it will be a lot easier in the new shop.

Do you think the new filter will protect the pump and valves from the filings until I can get to it, or am I likely to damage something else by waiting?

I will be using the tractor to help build and erect the shop. I can drain, clean, replace filter, decant fluid every few weeks if needed till I get the shop finished.

 

[tim s]

Just change the filter..

 

[ET]

You said the previous owner said he did brakes on
the tractor. Would it be possible to contact him for
more details?

 

[TigerPaw4020]

ET, at this stage it really doesn't matter. I have too many filings in the system, and I just hope it is the brakes or something on the upstream side of the filter. When the fluid was settled and decanted there was also some brass along with the silver in the bottom of the bucket and 1 chunk of fibrous material that looks suspiciously like it could be brake pad. It may still be coming from before, but I don't think so since I flushed it pretty good 5 years ago.

If it is downstream of the filter then it won't be long before lots of things start failing. I will open it up and look as soon as I can get time and tools together.

Regarding the statement from the previous owner, it doesn't make much sense now that I think about it. Splitting the tractor to overhaul the engine does not get you to the brakes. That is a whole different split at the axle housings. He did not do the overhaul himself, but paid a local mechanic to do the work, including body work, painting, and whatever else went into the restoration. My guess is that he believed the brakes were rebulit, and may have paid for it, but whether it was actually done is debatable.

Finally, now that I have it running again and tested the brakes while actually paying attention, I believe they are too good, which means they are probably metal to metal.

 

[tim s]

You are going in the right direction,, to deal with it you will need to lift the rockshaft housing and top cover on the transmission and flush and clean,, I use a "suck gun" that will draw stoderd solvent, gas or what ever to help with the flushing process,, it is the only way to get it flushed out the sediments stick in place that will not come clean any other way,,Darn it...and get some good magnets to stick into places out of the way to atrack what you miss, I like those square shaped "Cow Magnets' the set better than the round ones..

 

[TigerPaw4020]

By "suck gun" I assume you mean an air nozzle that uses jet action to pick up the solvent out of a container and spray it onto what you want cleaned, then just let it run out the drain plug carrying the crud with it.

I usually use mineral spirits or diesel for cleaning, but may get some solvent.

 

[tim s]

Yes,,that's what I mean..you need to "Blast" it loose before it will flow out, the darn stuff settles like gray paint...

 

[ET]

After you flush the case like Tim is saying, let it dry and drag a magnet around in the bottom. You always get more metal. If the tractor plowed in furrow the the left brake is likly to be bad. You may need to pull the load shaft to get all the junk out.

 

[TigerPaw4020]

While we are on the subject of magnets, does anyone have a good method of getting the filings off of a magnet after you have collected them?

This has always frustrated me and I've tried all kinds of methods with none working very well from wiping to washing to blasting with air to blasting with water. Even tried wrapping the magnet in paper towels, or saran wrap, or putting in a ziploc bag.

My guess is that this aggravates everyone, but if anyone has a better method, please share.