JD model A all fuel vs gasoline

[OleJohnny]

I am totally confused now! I have been looking for more power in my 1945 JD a model which has the all fuel pistons in it and I have researched the information i find on both the all fuel model and the gasoline models confusing. It states that the all fuel model has about 6 less horse power and less compression BUT the information given in tests indicate that the all fuel tractors would pull MORE WEIGHT. How can this be??
I have wanted 'just alittle more power in tractor pulling and was researching higher comjpression or bigger cubes, but if all i have to do is runn it on kersosene to pull more, what gives???

 

[buickanddeere]

Check the gasoline tractor weight vs. the all-fuel weight. Odds are the all-fuel was weighted heavier and tested in 1st gear instead of 2nd like the gasser.
The gasser had more drawbar,pulley and pto HP.

 

[nl00sb]

i have an a with all fuel pistons and dad had the same with gas pistons and gas manifold he was a good 7 hp more and on a pullin track i would have been out of power way before him, the test is was prolly not puting either of the tractors under a power load more a weight to traction load

 

[OleJohnny]

If you look on external_link.. the tests indicated maximum drawbar pulling tests. The distillate tractor was actually an older model than the 1947 gasoline tractor. The distillate drawbar max was more in the tests. Dont make no sense to me....

 

[OleJohnny]

Both were pulled in first gear and both weighed well over 6000 pounds tested. The draw bar max pull load for the multifuel is 4110# and the max for the gas is 4040# the gas showed 8 more horsepower but didnt do the work as the multifuel when it came to pulling power. the tests even stated that the octain fuel of the 'tractor fuel' was 37 octain!
The low gear in the multifuel is a slightly HIGHER ratio than the gas which also should mean that the gas would pull more....... Go look it up,,,, its unimaginable....... If there was someway to take some pulls on a sled in one evening and test things, i would try the kerosene vs the gas and see... I JUST CAN NOT BELIEVE THE WRITTEN FACTS in this case.......
The studies and tests were done by a Nebrasca institute and doccumented.

 

[OleJohnny]

Could this be because the all fuel motors ran alot richer and since the octain of the fuel was so low at 37 that the low compression tractors took in more fuel and burned it slower and made more power??

 

[buickanddeere]

Looking at the Nebraska results state the JD 60 gasser is a lousy puller. Poor fuel efficiency too.
When testing , absolute peak HP with an over rich mixture took precedence over being leaned to max fuel efficiency.

 

[BushogPapa]

Forget the kerosene and build MORE Compression and MORE Cu. In..

There is Nothing to be gained from using kerosene in your tractor..except the Smell of burning kerosene..

Ron..

 

[Super Trucker]

NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.

 

[The Dukester]

If you want to see the difference just try pulling a heavily loaded wagon up a fairly steep hill with both tractors and see which one will pull it further in sixth gear. The gasser will make the all fuel look sick. I experimented with my gasser G against my all fuel GW this way...there was no comparison. The gasser pulled right up the hill maybe losing maybe 150- 200 RPM, the all fuel GW almmost stalled out, got down to about 600 RPM, and lugged it's guts out getting to the top. Same size tires on both tractors, the G actually weighs about 300 lbs. more.

 

[OleJohnny]

Sounds reasonable to me,,,,,,,, I have built several drag cars and always, the more compression i put in them, the more power they made,,,,, but i can not understand where the data listed could be correct.
Im planning on 125 bigger pistons with as much compression i can find and i will do alittle head work when it is off. I simply refuse to spend mega bucks on the tractor since I could sell or trade it for a G or Super M or even a 460 IH cheeper than stroking and stuff.

 

[buickanddeere]

The tests were performed some time apart. Difference could have been tire/ground temperature diameter, tread type and rubber compound.
Do the tests state if the tractor spun out or stalled out at max drawbar pull.

 

[OleJohnny]

Apparently they did not spin out,,,,,, the tests were conducted by a nebraska institute and they came up with the figures in the same way. They did fuel consumption tests and max power pullings loads in all gears of both tractors, In each pull, the all fuel won out being able to pull more drawbar weight.

 

[buickanddeere]

I'm getting curious now and am going to find my copy of those tests. There has to be something else going on here. iirc the 60 gasser stats are lousy in drawbar power and max pull.

 

[Pmer]

OJ, I've pulled four different brands of tractors and you got to do something to all of them to be competitive. You can put a big bore kit in a Oliver 77 and by the time you do the head and clutch you'll be past $1500. You can get a 460 to 301 cubes but you have to buy the tractor and a engine to do it. A stock JD G will cost more than the A you allready have and everything G costs more than A.

I'm a liitle concerned you are setting yourself up for fustration by not putting "enough" in to your A the first time up front.

Why don't you have fun with the A the way it is for awhile and then decide how far to dip in the pocket book. If you are used to doing good on the track with your car I would think you'd want to stroke the A.

 

[Mike Aylward]

You should remember the Nebraska lab has a 15% maximum slippage allowance when testing a tractor. A tractor with higher horsepower can spin out faster than one with less at a given speed because of more torque going to the wheels. This is why speed limits are the great equalizer. Mike

 

[buickanddeere]

The April 1934 test with 18.72 drawbar HP with 2923lbs pull with 9.29% slippage at 2.4mph?5059lbs tractor weight and 24.71 pulley HP.6"X50" steel wheels.

November 1939 all-fuel test.On gasoline or fuel? With 26.20 drawbar HP and 2339lbs pull with 4.96% slippage at 4.20 mph? Tractor also 4059lbs and 26.33 pulley HP. 11X38 tires

Or the gasser A in the June 1947 test with 34.14 drawbar HP and 3158 lbs pull at 4.6mph and 6.92% slippage 4909lbs and 38.03 pulley HP. 11X38 tires.

The 60 didn't pull worth a hoot with 35.18 drawbar HP and 3057 lbs pull at 4.32mph and 7.03% slippage.5300lbs and 40.24 pulley HP. 12X38 tires.

All I can say, we all have seen "identical" A's, B's Farmall M's together in the same weight class and speed. Yet some of the same model tractors make full pulls while their mates fail at half track. Go figure ???

 

[OleJohnny]

I am adept at working on auto engines from the ground up but as far as putting a crankshaft in a JD johnny popper OUTSIDE in the yard when I have aged to my golden years, I shun the idea of trying that. But you are right....... Stroke is torque but if one makes enough HP with bigger pistons, its all good.

 

[OleJohnny]

If I could find another 300 pounds to strip off it, I could pull 4000 class and Im sure it woudld do well there but all i can find to remove is the oil bath air cleaner system and the power lift system on the rear end. Im sure that would make somewhat of a dent in the weight but then I would have to find a plain cover for it. I have even heard of people draining out half the water and oil from the rear end and transmission to get down on weight. Ide rather hire a really skinny kid to drive LOL.

 

[buickanddeere]

Doesn't matter, stroke or overbore.
Add 50 cubic inches with stroke or add 50 cubic inches from stroke. The results on the dyno with torque and HP at every rpm will be the same.
Larger dia piston makes extra thrust on the crank due to combustion pressure pushing on a larger area.

 

[Gary41a]

I have a 41 A,(orig. all fuel) that I have been pulling with for 5 years on a tight budget. The first thing to do is free,grind the rivets off the air intake stack and remove the cap. Look into the stack and make sure is not full of mud from wasp nests. The next thing is to install a DTLX 71 carb AND a gas manifold. This will gain noticable power. The next is to change the primary reduction gear using one from a late model A(single shift lever). You must also change the gear on back of the clutch.
The next mod I made was to bore 125 over and use M&W piston for a late A,or 60. These are a little longer and give more compression.
In 2011 I won the 5000 and 5500 class in our club,and placed 2nd in 4500 for the year. Also a 2nd ,3rd at the NATPA pull in Lincoln in March.
Please look at the air intake stack first.(don't ask me how I know).
E-mail if you have any questions.
good luck Gary