John Deere 410 Backhoe

[Caterpillar 1]

I recently bought a 410 backhoe. Serial number on the tractor is 356330T. The engine got water in thru the exhaust. Found a replacement engine but want to make sure it fits. The serial number of the engine in the backhoe is 541260T. Engine number is 4219DT 03. Unfortunately the replacement engine only has casting numbers. Casting numbers are r88141, r88984 & r81941. Pictures are included. First pictures are the engine in the backhoe.

 

[Jim.ME]

I recently bought a 410 backhoe. Serial number on the tractor is 356330T. The engine got water in thru the exhaust. Found a replacement engine but want to make sure it fits. The serial number of the engine in the backhoe is 541260T. Engine number is 4219DT 03. Unfortunately the replacement engine only has casting numbers. Casting numbers are r88141, r88984 & r81941. Pictures are included. First pictures are the engine in the backhoe.

Entire pictures of both sides of the possible replacement engine might help. What was that engine in?

From the two pictures having the starter shown in them my first thought is no, from what I see of the two blocks and the tag locations.

 

[Caterpillar 1]

Here are some more photos of the replacement engine. Person is not sure what it came out of.

 

[Caterpillar 1]

Side photo

 

[Jim.ME]

I am going to say that is a newer engine than yours, I am going to guess it is from the 4239, 4039 engine family. It can likely be made to fit by using parts like the flywheel and flywheel housing (that means a new rear main seal will be installed with the proper installation tool) and all the accessories on the front cover including the crank pulley with the pump drive. The injector pump may need to be reworked for tractor service.

 

[Caterpillar 1]

Can I buy the tool or do I need a John Deere tech? What should I look out for pulling the engine from the transmission? Really appreciate the help!

 

[sms]

Do some research on the Internet. The suffix letters can indicate what type of engine it is. Engines that are structural have heavier castings then those that are mounted in a frame even though they are the same model number. Bulldozers require a heavy casting because there is no frame to support the engine, I suspect a backhoe would also.

 

[sms]

Do some research on the Internet. The suffix letters can indicate what type of engine it is. Engines that are structural have heavier castings then those that are mounted in a frame even though they are the same model number. Bulldozers require a heavy casting because there is no frame to support the engine, I suspect a backhoe would also.

Here is a link to serial number ID. It appears C indicates construction and G genset. Therefore a C may indicate a heavier block as a genset is mounted in a frame.

OMDQ101820

 

[Jim.ME]

Here is a link to serial number ID. It appears C indicates construction and G genset. Therefore a C may indicate a heavier block as a genset is mounted in a frame.

OMDQ101820

Thank you for bring this up. I agree that there are some blocks are built heavier than others and the info you posted is good. I think the info and coding in that document (2013) are for newer 6-cylinder engines rather than the 4-cylinder (about 1981) he is dealing with, and the info would be on the serial number tag that is missing from the engine he found.

From your post on this however, I remembered some discussions on these engines in the past and did a bit of digging. I haven't found an actual JD document on this as yet, however I believe the raised gallery areas on the left side of the block give clearance for the crank/rods and that indicates this is lighter block, a smoother shape on the left side, like his old engine, would be the heavier structural block. Given the engine mounts and the unit (compressor?) it is driving it is likely a stationary engine and very well could be a lighter block.

The 410 loader frame goes from the rear axle to the front support, so the loader is not concentrated on the engine area like the farm loaders that attach to the flywheel housing and front support. While the stationary engine will fit and work, I agree a structural block would be a better choice to lessen the risk of engine breakage.

 

[Jim.ME]

Can I buy the tool or do I need a John Deere tech? What should I look out for pulling the engine from the transmission? Really appreciate the help!

You can buy the tool and install a seal yourself.

Do you have the correct John Deere Technical Manual for your 410? You need a copy and spend some time studying it. The manual will have a separation section as well as info on seal replacement and info on components. I do not have a 410 manual and can't say it has info on installation of the newer unitized seals, but that is available.

What is your mechanical background? Are you equipped with the tools and gear needed to lift and support the components involved?

After reviewing sms posts and knowing of things that may need to be changed between the two engines you may want to keep looking for the correct 4219 engine for your 410.

 

[Jim.ME]

I found this on the web. Indication is it came from a John Deere repower guide. Of course it is showing opposite sides of the block. I will say the tractor blocks I have do not have the galleries on the left side, they are smooth and wide enough galleries are not used.

 

[Tx Jim]

I agree with Jim I've never seen a JD tractor that utilized a 4 cylinder engine with engine block that contained the uneven block/gallies on LH side

 

[Caterpillar 1]

Morning, thank you for all of the information. Saved me from making a really bad decision. The engine in the backhoe could be fixed. Long run it would be better to repair it than replace it.

 

[Jim.ME]

Morning, thank you for all of the information. Saved me from making a really bad decision. The engine in the backhoe could be fixed. Long run it would be better to repair it than replace it.

It may cost more to go through it correctly but in the end you will basically have a new engine. What is wrong with your engine, do you know?

 

[Caterpillar 1]

I purchased it knowing it got water in thru the exhaust. Engine was stuck. The backhoe is in really good condition. Only has about 2000 hrs. I removed the head and got it free. Cylinder linings looked ok so I put it back together with new gaskets. Won’t start because it only has 150lbs of pressure. Needs new sleeves ect. I was afraid of doing that because my mechanical skills are not at that level to do it correctly especially with the engine in frame. How many hrs would it take for a good mechanic to repair it?

 

[sms]

I purchased it knowing it got water in thru the exhaust. Engine was stuck. The backhoe is in really good condition. Only has about 2000 hrs. I removed the head and got it free. Cylinder linings looked ok so I put it back together with new gaskets. Won’t start because it only has 150lbs of pressure. Needs new sleeves ect. I was afraid of doing that because my mechanical skills are not at that level to do it correctly especially with the engine in frame. How many hrs would it take for a good mechanic to repair it?

The rings may be stuck in the pistons. I did an in chassis on my 450 dozer some years ago. My machinist friend would not sell my the kit if I didn't send in the injectors and pump. One bad injector can ruin a rebuild quickly

 

[sms]

I purchased it knowing it got water in thru the exhaust. Engine was stuck. The backhoe is in really good condition. Only has about 2000 hrs. I removed the head and got it free. Cylinder linings looked ok so I put it back together with new gaskets. Won’t start because it only has 150lbs of pressure. Needs new sleeves ect. I was afraid of doing that because my mechanical skills are not at that level to do it correctly especially with the engine in frame. How many hrs would it take for a good mechanic to repair it?

If you want to try the cheap way first, remove the pistons, remove rings clean and inspect ring groves, install new rings, hone cylinder liners and reassemble. Being frugal and far from wealthy I would probably try this. I have had success doing things like this in the past.

 

[Caterpillar 1]

Morning, pulled the pistons. Surprisingly the rings were not stuck and the pistons look good. The cylinders are not scared but are discolored. Almost look like patina. They need to be replaced? Honing would not fix the problem correctly?

 

[Jim.ME]

Morning, pulled the pistons. Surprisingly the rings were not stuck and the pistons look good. The cylinders are not scared but are discolored. Almost look like patina. They need to be replaced? Honing would not fix the problem correctly?

Did you use some short capscrews and flat washers to hold the sleeves tightly down, before pulling the pistons? If the sleeves move/moved, you will need to pull and reseal them.

As for honing or not, we can't see what you see so it is pretty hard to give you a definitive answer. You need to hone them and see how they look if you want to try that. Secure the sleeves first if you haven't.

Added sentence on honing.

 

[Caterpillar 1]

Well I didn’t secure the cylinders. Lesson learned. I really should replace it all to make sure it runs for the long term. Got all the manuals and I will read thru before going forward. Thanks for the help.