John Deere 430 Baler String Tie issue

[east_tex]

The sting tie on the 430 baler quit tying. I replaced the power steering pump with a brand new power steering pump off of a 1979 Chevrolet Malibu. Forty seven dollars vs $627 for a John Deere pump. It was an identical match. The string tie mechanism now cycles, however the power steering pump pulley gets hot. With a laser thermometer I measured 200 degrees. Is this too hot for baling hay? What should I do?
Any comments appreciated

 

[Roger in Iowa]

The pump is operating continuously and it should NOT. Pump drive is not relatching when bale is discharged. Look up
other numerous threads on this issue. Don't keep operating or you will fail the pump (cook it!).

 

[east_tex]

Thanks for the reply Roger, The pulley on the power steering pump reaches high temperature before it completes on tie cycle. To make it run, I raise the gate, lock it open, then lower the gate to four feet, then pull the manual tie cord. Even before the string arm returns to home position, it is hot

 

[Tx Jim]

Did you utilize pulley from old pump or Chevy pump? If Chevy pump pulley is pulley correct dimension as old pulley? What condition is pump drive belt? Is belt glazed?

 

[east_tex]

Thanks TX. The pulley is the original John Deere pulley, it appears to be in original condition. I don't remember seeing anything out of the ordinary about the belt, however since this could be a potential source of the problem, I will replace it.

Is the Chevrolet pump a satisfactory replacement for the John Deere pump? The part number of the Chevy pump is 732-0105.

 

[Jim.ME]

That bare pump fits a number of Fords as well a few GMs, from checking the part number. I haven't had to change the pump on my 435 but was told a Ford pump fits it. The 435 manual calls for JD All-Weather Hydrostatic Fluid or Type F ATF. Type F is the old Ford ATF so I am leaning to JD used a Ford cross, maybe due to reservoir and plumbing shapes. (IF GM it would be Dextron fluid it would seem.) The pump itself is likely right, since apparently GM and Ford used the same pump in some applications.

How hot is the the pump itself? If it is cool and the pulley is hot way ahead of the pump temperature, I would focus on the belt drive system.

Worn belt slipping, worn pulley, improper belt tension when operating can all contribute to belt slipping which causes heating.

Is the pump running continuous or cycling on for tying?

 

[Tx Jim]

Although in the past I've read it can't be successfully done I thought I had replaced original pump with GM pump. If relief valve is correct pressure setting I see no reason a GM PS pump won't operate the twine arm. After all JD acquired there pumps from same source.

How long since filter was changed?

 

[Tx Jim]

Although in the past I've read it can't be successfully done I thought I had replaced original pump with GM pump. If relief valve is correct pressure setting I see no reason a GM PS pump won't operate the twine arm. After all JD acquired there pumps from same source.

How long since filter was changed?

 

[Jim.ME]

I don't doubt you could have installed a GM pump, by any means. In the Vision_OE catalog that bare pump appears in both GM and Ford applications, looks like reservoirs may have varied some. As far as ATF; GM will say Dextron and Ford will say Type F, what they each used in their transmissions. If the pulley is heating ahead of the pump it still seems drive related to me.

Also when getting a new belt one needs to be careful of crosses to see the dimensions match the original. I'm finding some crosses are not exactly the same. Little differences, like a slightly different angle or width, could make a difference in slipping or not, in a drive arrangement like these. Weak tensioning springs can have an effect as well.

 

[east_tex]

Thanks Jim. The pulley on the pump is hot, the pulley on the main drive roller is hot, the tensioner pulley is normal operating temperature. I have not checked the temperature of the type F atf in the system but I can do that later this afternoon and post back.

The belt appears to have been on the machine a long time but does not squeal. The pulley on the pump will go to 165 degrees on the one tie cycle dry run. That is without a bale in the baler. If I stop the pto and manually begin a new cycle the temperature goes to about 200 degrees by laser thermometer.

 

[east_tex]

The GM pump will propel the twine arm through its motion all the way to string cut without a bale in the baler, How do I check the setting of the pump relief valve? I changed the filter a few days ago when I changed the pump.

 

[east_tex]

Would this be correct? If the atf in the system is normal temperature maybe a hundred degrees or so and the pump pulley is hot 165 degrees and even though there is not a belt squeal, the older belt on the machine may be the cause of the heating? BTW I changed the bearing on the drive roller - drive pulley and heating remains a problem

 

[east_tex]

The filter was changed a few days ago when I changed pump. A WIX brand filter is on the machine now

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 12:33:00 05/10/20) Would this be correct? If the atf in the system is normal temperature maybe a hundred degrees or so and the pump pulley is hot 165 degrees and even though there is not a belt squeal, the older belt on the machine may be the cause of the heating? BTW I changed the bearing on the drive roller - drive pulley and heating remains a problem

Installing a new belt is what I recommend. Spec's of belt are shown below.

 

[east_tex]

I took the John Deere belt part number and called Orielly Auto Parts. The salesman crossed the JD number to Gates and I installed the belt. All of the excessive heat left the drive pulley, still no heat in the tension pulley, and the pump pulley only went to 100 degrees on the first tie cycle. I ran a cycle a second time and the temp went to 140 degrees in the pump pulley still no heat anywhere else. this is a great improvement. I think I may tighten the belt tomorrow and try to run it again,I expect the heat to be normal everywhere. The atf was not excessively hot. The spin on filter showed ambient temperature with the laser thermometer.

Thanks to those who replied, because of your comments the problem is on the way to being solved. I will post back tomorrow before dark with an update.

Kind Regards

east_tex aka Jim - Huntsville, Texas

 

[Tx Jim]

Thanks for update. I'm glad that you should now be able to confidently bale hay.
Jim