Just did 12V Convert- No Spark

Working on Dads 2N, front mount distributor- was 6v pos ground. His battery was dead and not holding a charge, he is sure generator was not charging, he wanted a 12V negative ground conversion. (no ifs ands or buts)

Bought the kit from this site, brand new Exide battery, used JMOR's wiring diagram with the ammeter hookup. Turned on the key, spun the starter, sounded good....... no start. Pulled a plug, nothing. Started with the voltmeter:

Battery- 12V (brand new- reading was slightly over 12, but not sure exactly).

At the bottom of the ballast reisistor- exactly same as battery. Ignition hookup side of ballast resistor- still 12V

Coil side of ballast resistor- 6.35V. Top of coil 6.35V (key on)

Took off the coil and measured at the pig tail and at flat spring: both readings were just over 9V

The 12V replacement coil seems to have a longer pigtail than the original 6V did. I made sure that both the flat spring and the pig tail were extended to make contact.

Are all my readings good so far? Where do I troubleshoot next?

Thanks.
 
Excellent troubleshooting! You have tracked the problem to the distributor. Waaaaay too many people just start replacing coils, resistors, etc instead of actually troubleshooting the problem.

Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok, & that you have correct voltage to the coil, (and you do) the most common electrical failure (no spark, weak spark) points on the frontmount are:

The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it’s fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works)

The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark.

The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks)
The condenser wire grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.

The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.)

Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o’clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o’clock)

Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).

Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points.

Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap.

Unless the coil is cracked or shows a dead short, chances are it's fine; square coils rarely fail cold. Pull the distributor & do a continuity check.

First, make sure your meter/light works (don't ask....)

You can change points everyday & it will not fix bad bushings. If you are having trouble w/ points failure, check the shaft. If you detect movement, chances are it needs new bushings.

Inspect the points; if they are pitted or burned, replace them. Next, dress the points by running a piece of card stock or brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. Make sure the points align correctly. Proper alignment is also critical to longevity. Look at the points when they are closed; both sides should mate evenly. Then, check the gap at .015 on the high point of all 4 cam lobes.

Now, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. What ever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts) Then place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Then, hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush w/ the timing gear cover.

Finally, double check your firing order & plug wires. It’s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It’s very easy to cross 3 & 4.

Post back w/ results & any other questions.
75 Tips
 

Thanks, Bruce! Excellent help. I'm not sure when I will get back over to continue the process, but will certainly post results or further information for help.

Much appreciated!
 
with coil in hand, but hooked to power wire.. key on.. bottm pigtail should read full bat volts.. if not. bad wireing or switch....
 
(quoted from post at 21:17:47 08/17/13) with coil in hand, but hooked to power wire.. key on.. bottm pigtail should read full bat volts.. if not. bad wireing or switch....
s SouNdguy said, something not right in the Land of Oz. "Took off the coil and measured at the pig tail and at flat spring: both readings were just over 9V
'. Can't be right.
 

What reading should I get at the top of the coil? Currently, it's 6.35V....

Even with "less then correct voltage", if there is juice at the pigtail, shouldn't this be enough to cause some spark at the plug?

I think since I'm getting nothing, I still have a problem at the distributor. Maybe I have 2 issues I need to fix?
 
I would expect about 7 to 8 volts at top of coil with ign key on & points closed. Full battery voltage with points open. Connect a test lamp at top post, other lead to chassis ground, and turn on ign, and while cranking engine, report lamp response.
What I really see as wrong is the report of 9 volts at pig tail with coil removed from distributor & ign on. That should be full battery voltage, just the same as at top terminal, under these conditions.
 

OK, let's back up on step on the wiring: On the right side of the ballistic resistor, I'm reading full battery voltage, but on the other side, I'm reading the 6.35V that I'm getting at the top of the coil.

What should the readings be at the ballistic resistor? Is this reading independent of the status of the points? That is, when is resistance in play, and when isn't it?
 
(quoted from post at 15:03:19 08/18/13)
OK, let's back up on step on the wiring: On the right side of the ballistic resistor, I'm reading full battery voltage, but on the other side, I'm reading the 6.35V that I'm getting at the top of the coil.

What should the readings be at the ballistic resistor? Is this reading independent of the status of the points? That is, when is resistance in play, and when isn't it?
It is not independent.
Any time you have current flowing through the resistor, i.e. points closed, it will drop voltage.
On the coil side of the resistor you should read exactly what you read at the top of the coil.
 

So my tester will ALWAYS read the "resisted" voltage, both at the resistor and at the coil, since my tester completes the circuit to read the voltage, right?

(Sorry, I don't deal with electricity or circuitry on a regular basis, so sometimes I overthink it, and sometimes I'm not smart enough to think enough about it.........)
 
witht he coil in hand.. that is an open circuit. .. with key on. that open circuit at the end of the coil should read full bat volts.

reading much less like it does shows a REAL bad connection.

just because your VERY HIGH imput impeadance VOM see's some voltage there.. does not mean there is any / enough current capacity thru that bad connection to generate spark / sufficient primary / secondary current/voltage.
 
NOOOOOO!

your tester is super high input impeadance.

with the points open or the coil in your hand... key on... with one meter lead referencing ground. the other meter lead should indicate full bat voltage at ALL locations you can measure along that wire fromt he battery past the key, past the resistor, and up to the end of the coil...
 

Hmmm, so is the ballistic resistor bad? I thought if it was bad, it was dead, completely dead?

Can I bypass the resistor for the purpose of testing? i.e. Can I go directly from the key switch to the coil and test top of coil and pigtail?
 

One other thing- I did not replace the wiring harness during the conversion. The wiring had been "updated" about 2 years ago, so it's not original, and it did look to be in good, working order.

Rather than pull the resistor to coil wire out through the tube and fish another one through, we opted to just use the wire, as is, where is.

Possibly there is a leak in that wire, that could act like a closed points situation 100% of the time?
 
if you had a short.. you'd know it.. something would get hot and burn.

for testing, run a hot wire straight from bat to coil....
 

Thanks, going to head over the hill in about an hour and start testing with the new information

Thanks a lot. Greatly appreciated!
 
[b:61174c0666]SUCCESS!!![/b:61174c0666]

Thanks to all for expert advice and assistance, my fix got "silly easy".

Started testing voltages at the battery and working downstream. When I got to the ballistic resistor, I had a different reading on opposite ends. I pulled the coil off and still had different readings. Checked the ignition side of the resistor and yep...... she's a bit loose. Snugged it down and all my readings came into line.

Pulled a plug, and had my father crank it over. I saw spark, and she started on 3 cylinders!!

Got the plug put back in, had Dad start her up, and he said: Wow, starts easier than my car now!

Did some checks and saw that the battery is charging and everything is working as should be.

Much thanks to all for their help and advice. Appreciate having a place to come to, to get help like this.
 
(quoted from post at 14:48:24 08/19/13) [b:4e07c1cb73]SUCCESS!!![/b:4e07c1cb73]

Thanks to all for expert advice and assistance, my fix got "silly easy".

Started testing voltages at the battery and working downstream....

Chisel that in stone and post it at the base of Mount N for all the faithful to read!!!!

TOH
 
The original Ford ballast resistor had riveted connections that went bad because of heating.They were always suspect.They were under the dashboard until 1948, then mounted on the coil terminal.I found cars with 2 resistors.Some with a jumper across the resistor, coils didnt last long.
 
A high impedance VOM or VTVM could read 9 volts at the flat spring.The user doesnt how to use a meter.Some meters load a circuit, some dont.
 
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