Labor to rebuild a 1965 JD 1010 trans

[Lowbuck1010]

I have done this job before but just didnt feel like laying on the floor of the carport in the winter. I figured give the dealer some business. I have a JD flat rate manual and the best I can come up with is 18.3 hrs. The dealer is quoting 35. Does anyone have any experience with labor for this job? Im talking a straight rebuild; no final drive removal, rock shaft removal or anything else. Remove the hydraulic pump, split the tractor, pull input and power shafts, install new parts (usually both cluster gears, roller bearings and shafts), reassemble. I just dont see 35 hrs, but I could be wrong. Hopefully someone can shed some light before I have a frank discussion with the service writer.
Thanks!

 

[Hay maker2]

I have rebuilt mine.
On my RU, you have to pull the rockshaft off to remove the shifter cover (mine is a early one).Also, if you need to replace the cups for the tapered bearings, your going to have to remove the final drives and pull the differential. What about the gears on the bevel pinion shaft? If that has to be removed, then it goes out the back.

If you don't like 35 hours, I hope you like a cold carpet on a concert floor in winter.

 

[Lowbuck1010]

Mine’s an RU but it’s a 1965. Ring and pinion are fine and do not have to come out. Final drives stay on. Rear cover stays on.

 

[deeretails]

The pinion gear must be removed before and other shafts can be removed. So right off the bat the final drives and the ring gear/carrier assembly come out. Just did a 430, same
transmission. 35 hours seems fair to me.

 

[Jim.ME]

Others may have different ideas and info for you, but I say have a discussion with the service writer. Keep it simple. You say you have done this before, explain how you did it and find out how he figured doing it. He may not realize yours doesn't need to come apart as far as some. Is he going to charge the flat rate (win, lose, or draw) and parts or did he give you that as a worst case estimate and they are going to bill actual time and parts? What any of us think it should be, doesn't really matter, in the end. The one you have to reach an agreement with is the shop that will be doing the work. JMHO

 

[tim s]

My bet is that no dealer will do it for less than 35 hours,,and most likely no one in the shop has ever done one...if they will do it the parts list will grow beyond your imagination...

 

[Lowbuck1010]

In this case, ring and pinion as well as final drives do not need to come out. Believe discussion with writer is in order.

 

[john in la]

OK so you get them to agree to do it for 20 hours labor.
Then they charge you out the ying yang for the parts.
What did you gain.

I got a feeling this is going to turn out as good as screaming at your waitress before she brings you your food.

 

[SVcummins]

There is almost never a time when taking something to a
dealer is a wise idea especially if you can do the work
yourself. Exceptions might be pressing a bearing or gear on
or a shaft or something like that but a complete major
component overhaul you’ll be in it five times what the machine
is worth .

 

[David G]

Sounds like $4500 in labor, maybe another $1000 in parts, a lot ot money to put in a 1010.

 

[RedMF40]

It's possible they don't want the job. Their bread and butter is pulling codes, doing routine maintenance, chasing the problems the computerized systems present. Your tractor would tie up a bay for a week by their calculation while the other techs are cranking out the hours and probably billing higher for diagnostic work.

I don't know how it works with farm equipment, but if I pulled into an automotive repair shop with a 1965 model car, they wouldn't bother to look at it. Not in my area, anyway.

There are people around where I live, however, who will take on jobs like you have. You can probably work with such a person on the build much better than with a dealer--provided the dealer will even do the job.

You might ask around, see who knows someone who has a nice garage as a side business. I think that would be your best bet.

Gerrit

 

[T.R.K.]

I am with Jim on this. The dealer wants to give you a job you will be happy with. (Happy except for probably the bill!) And a job that he
can count on not coming back for another 18 to 35 hours of repairs to fix whatever was not repaired in the original job. So count on the
dealer replacing some parts that you would probably not replace if you did the job yourself. I work in a small engine shop and have found
that if you cut corners it will come back and bite you in the pocket book.

Add into the equation that 'flat rate' rarely includes dealing with:
-frozen bolts that must be dealt with- and owner modification/additions/'repairs' that were never considered when figuring the original
'flat rate' times.

 

[Lowbuck1010]

Well, like I said in the beginning, I could be wrong. Either way, Ill sit down with the service manager and get a better understanding of how labor was calculated.

 

[steve_in_mo]

It seems to me that you should try to rent a suitable workshop with a lift and hoist and heat.
I do not believe you are going to get anywhere with the service manager or writer since you're
probably talking to a dealership that doesn't have anyone on board who has done work like that.
Previous experience and good working conditions can make the work go better.

 

[ss55]

Back in the day a dealer mechanic experienced with 1010's might have been able to get the job done in 18 book hours, but those guys retired a generation ago. Today a mechanic will need to order a service manual and read up on this new-to-him 1010. The dealer might be afraid they will wind up owning the tractor after putting several thousand dollars of labor and learning curve into it. Try bringing enough cash, $3,500 to $4,000 plus, to prepaying for the work you want done plus the extra time the mechanics will need to learn how to work on the tractor.

That is still a lot of money to put into a ($2,500 to $3,000 when done?) 1010 tractor. If the engine and tires are good you might get $1,000 salvage value for it AS-IS. You might be able to buy a 20 or 30 year newer tractor for the cost to fix this one, or even find another working 1010 in better condition at an estate sale.

 

[marloweg]

years back 40 some took a 188 case engine in at 7am on Monday and picked it up at 7am on Saturday morning and the 4 of July was on a Wednesday [they were closed] got the bill and they had 40 hours of labor that did not go over well last time i ever took anything to a shop

 

[Janicholson]

Discuss it, but don't make yourself disliked. They can price the job to not get it as easily as they can loose money on it. If you have done it before, was it in this same tractor? if so why is it in need of it again. 1010jds are not talked up as great to own (not flaming you, being realistic) putting cash into it might not make it as valuable as a different JD model, or a different make like a Massy 135 or ? Jim

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Having to pay them $100+ an hour when the mechanic has to 'learn' how to work on your tractor is a total ripoff.At that rate you should be getting a top rated mechanic that knows how to do the job.They already have quoted you a price with 2X the hours the JD flat rate manual says it should take.All that screams
ripoff coming,I'd be heading out the door to find another shop or mechanic.Even at 18 or 20 hrs plus parts it'd be a good size bill.You could look for another one and keep the one you have for parts if you love that model tractor that much.Not a high dollar tractor I bought one that ran and operated for $1200 a few years ago and the NH dealer allowed me $2000 for it on a trade for a used Yanmar.

 

[ss55]

How much market/demand is left for repairing JD 1010 tractors. If it was a current model in wide use, then yes a mechanic could be expected to eat some of the the cost to learn a marketable skill. Now-a-days he will probably never see another 1010 in the rest of his career, so there is really no market for that new skill, I don't think it would be fair to expect a mechanic to eat the learning curve costs on what is now a one-time "custom" job.

 

[J Hamilton]

You're exactly right! Not many places want
to or are willing to repair these older
tractors. That's why I stay so busy in my
shop at home as a side job, plus I enjoy
working on the older tractors.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

If they don't have a mechanic that knows how to do the job the dealer needs to be upfront about it,at $110 hr the customer shouldn't have to pay for any education. Right now I can think of at least a couple shops I could send a
JD 1010 to that wouldn't have any problem knowing how to fix anything on it.

 

[M-MAN]

This is going to be a do it yourself
job.

The flat rate book is for nearly new
machines, Not 55 year old ones. Even at
half that age the hours will be doubled.
It's never that simple either. No one is
going to put new bearings in and leave
55 year old races in there for them to
run in. Just not going to happen when
your reputation is on the line. That
means everything comes off to do it
right. I highly doubt your dealership
has anyone with experience on these
either. Ours hasn't had anyone with NG
or two cylinder experience since 04.

 

[Hay maker2]

If your on here crying about the flat rate then do it yourself. Even if you go back there, do you really think they are going to lower the estimated hours for you? Maybe they have worked with you in the past and dont want to deal with you again, maybe a reoccurring theme? They are going to cover there bases and as previously stated, they do not want to own the tractor in the end.
All your doing is looking for a fight. Finding someone else is not an option either as you will be going down this same road. Move on and do it yourself.

 

[Hay maker2]

Nice picture. As I stated in my first response how do you replace the cup for the Timken bearing on the input shaft with out removing the rockshaft and final drives. Any good mechanic will replace this cup when they replace the Timken bearing. The dealer is going to cover there bases.

 

[Lowbuck1010]

Jim,
I agree. Not looking for confrontation, just understanding. If the labor is justified, so be it. And its not the exact same 1010 I rebuilt the trans on. This is a very late 1965; production ended not long after this tractor was made. The one I did was a 1964. However, both are after the last serial number break and use the same parts. In effect, the job is the same.

 

[Hobo,NC]

You can lose money on a job like that I would double it up for all the aggravation involved. Its always gonna be something that will eat you lunch on old equipment there is a rattle snake in it are two that will bite ya...

I just did a engine swap (short block) in a 73 ford f100. I sent a set of Donner heads out to be rebuilt I speck I ended up with a day are more in cleaning all the gunk off the parts. I never could get the clutch cover as clean as I wanted it I talked him into a new clutch a new clutch gets a flywheel it snowballs. All the clutch linkage was worn out repaired it while the engine was out. The rag joint on the steering shaft is shot replaced it. Spent quite a bit of time putting new exhaust studs in the manifolds.

The rear seal leaked had to drop the pan and replace it lucky for me I caught it before I installed the engine. Its a labor of love all said and done you rub and shine on all the old parts if they don't work out you touch it you own it that's why you mark it up so HIGH...

Sometimes folks will say why is it going to be so HIGH I tell'em so when you come to pick it up I want you to bring enoufh money, you may get lucky and have a little to tote back home...

If I evaluate it and know they will not be happy I pass if they let me take care of what is needed all around most everyone is happy happy even if they throw stupid money at it.

I tell them to pull your pocketbook out it needs to be blessed... It may not make them feel better but it does me...

 

[Determined]

(quoted from post at 22:14:49 12/26/20) years back 40 some took a 188 case engine in at 7am on Monday and picked it up at 7am on Saturday morning and the 4 of July was on a Wednesday [they were closed] got the bill and they had 40 hours of labor that did not go over well last time i ever took anything to a shop

Your post got me to thinking about all the times I worked 12+ hours a day trying to keep up with the work load at the shop or put 3 mechanics on a job to get it done faster for someone who was in a rush.

This may or may not be what had happened with your engine.

If I quote you $??? for a job and you agree then that's all I charge you for the job the the logistics of how I get the job done is not your problem to dwell on as long as it is done properly.

Not every business runs 9-5

Say you called me up and asked for a price to replace a torn boot on a CV shaft.
I quote you $50 in parts and for example 2 hours or $200 in labor to R+R the shaft and replace the boot and you say go ahead.

I put it on the hoist and see that both boots are torn up bad so I put on a complete new shaft that I had on the shelf, it only takes me a little more than a half hour to install it and I only charge you the agreed upon $250 are you now angry because you only waited less than an hour to get your vehicle back or are you angry because you got a complete new shaft with both boots for the same money?

Let's say I was going to make $10 on the boot and $80 after expenses on the labor = $90
The shaft costs me $110 plus $50 to install it so in the end after you pay me $250 I make $90 you get more than you asked for and I have some time to try and get caught up.

 

[Lowbuck1010]

Hay maker2,
The front race can be tapped out from the inside. For the rear race, there are two ways. It can be removed with a large pilot bearing puller or you can pull the rear cover and drive it out from the back. Either of those ways do not require pulling the final drives or differential.
I will check with the dealership and find out what their plans are and let you know.

 

[Hobo,NC]

And those times you install a new shaft it vibrates you go thru several new shafts even a shaft from a factory re-builder and still have the added vibration. Then you pull the old shaft from the scrap pile build/install it all for the same money : (... Like theft lost at big box stores warranty coverage is built into labor and mark up of a part.

Good will will only go so far you build it into the price take the good with the bad and move on to the next customer.

 

[Crazy Horse]

I would say that quoting a repair on an old piece of ag equipment on a flat rate basis is a gamble for the shop owner. To be honest, the fact is that the shop probably doesn't need or even want the job. Once you open up those old beasts, there are all sorts of gremlins inside that might make the shop wish they had never considered doing it.

Which leads to another question ..... is a quote a legal contract do you think in such a case as I have outlined? If it is, why would any shop take on work on old equipment if it were a legal obligation to charge an amount that in some cases is a good guess?

 

[Janicholson]

One more thought! When I was a Service Manager at an medium duty IH, Nissan, Honda MC dealership, I was responsible for writing all tickets. I wrote
every non warranty related ticket with a clear statement that additional charges would be made based on time for age related issues like rust, broken
bolts and unseen critical repairs, not to exceed 10% of initial estimates. Id they were seen to exceed the estimate, the owner was called to approve
the expense. My estimates were not flat rate, and increased each year older the vehicle had survived. We made money, but we also had customers.
Transparent transactions are a real advantage. Jim

 

[Lowbuck1010]

I certainly appreciate everyones thoughts and points of view on this. Some good things were brought up, to be sure. I definitely have some different perspectives to consider the labor quote from when I talk to the service writer.
Thanks again!

 

[VicS]

I pull a 435. Same rear end. The spider gears are the weak link. And the. Bull pinion gears. Also 3rd gear is just helt to its shaft with a half moon key. But they do come apart easy.