Let's talk VFD's

David G

Well-known Member
I am going to start this, please jump in.

VFD stands for variable frequency drive, also known as an inverter.

A VFD can connect to either single or 3 phase, as long as the VFD supports that, but you must supply enough watts on the inputs to handle the outputs plus loss. It is typical to upsize the VFD by 1/3 if running on single phase. The output will always be 3 phase, and it requires a 3 phase motor. The output can be a lower voltage than the input but not typically higher than it.

A VFD will adjust frequency to control speed, but can also crank out more amps if needed to maintain the voltage.

A VFD will look like a unity or slightly leading load to the power company, so no need to worry about power factor.

A VFD will control the start and stop ramp, you will probably want to set that as short as possible. I usually will slow the startup ramp down if the VFD trips on over current, and slow the stopping ramp down if it trips on over voltage.

A VFD can provide regenerative braking for small amounts, and larger amounts if you use an external braking resistor, some may provide total regenerative braking by now.

A VFD will control direction by switching the phase relationship to the motor.
 
I forgot to add, VFD's have minimal inrush on starting, as the capacitors on the DC bus supply that.
 
Excellent summary.

I have VFDs running my bandsaw, lathe, and knee mill. Super handy to be able to adjust the speed with just a twist of a knob, instead of moving belts or shifting gears.

I also have a VFD running the coolant pump on my CNC mill. Adding the VFD was much cheaper than buying a single phase pump to replace the factory 3 phase unit. As a side benefit, I added programmable flow to the coolant system by being able to adjust the pump speed within the cutting program.
 
I still have my rotary phase converter but 3 of the 5 machines in shop operate with VFDs. I have the VFDs for the other two but haven't got them hooked up yet.Here in the mushroom capital of the world VFDs are used extensively to run the A/C units in the summer. My understanding is they even out the starting load so the demand meters (commercial) do not go crazy and customer saves by not getting as many higher (spelled $$) rates. They are using 3 phase in and 3 phase out.
 
We are installing a Cincinnati knee mill with 4 three phase 440 motors, after much debate, we are going with a rotary phase converter and a step-up transformer. This should get us from 220 single phase to 440 VAC three phase. We may add a VFD at a later date for the spindle motor to allow for speed control.

Hopefully this approach will work.

Rich
 
We occasionally provide vfds with hvac equipment per specs on jobs we bid . Most vendors won't provide one for single phase equipment , they normally use a simple speed controller . Your explanation is probably the best I've heard though . I'm just a dumb sheet metal worker .
 
Do you have braking resistors so you can stop quickly?

Only the lathe has an external braking resistor. There is a lot of inertia there and it needs it to bleed off excess energy when stopping.

Neither the saw or knee mill have external resistors. IIRC, the mill is set to a 3 second stop and the saw is 2 seconds. Neither has enough inertia to cause regen overvoltage.

The CNC coolant pump VFD is set to just coast to stop. That mimics the original setup when it was just run on 3 phase from a contactor. There is a solenoid valve that closes to stop the coolant quickly for auto toolchanging reasons. A controlled stop of any duration might have undesirable results by essentially dead heading the pump(1hp, 4 stage centrifugal). Probably not a big deal, but I saw no reason to do anything different.
 
the electrical engineers corner cafe

Just repeating what I heard.


Question: What is the difference between a phase converter and a ?Variable Frequency Drive? Why would I choose one over the other?




Phase Converters
According to Wikipedia: ?three-phase induction motors may operate adequately on an unbalanced supply if not heavily loaded. This allows various imperfect techniques to be used. A single-phase motor can drive a three-phase generator, which will produce a high-quality three-phase source but with high cost for apparatus.?

Generally phase converters are divided into three popular methods of control:

Static conversion techniques in which the motor is run at less than full efficiency mainly on two of the legs of the three-phase motor. Current is sometimes injected into the third leg with a capacitor or transformer arrangements that provide imperfect phase shift. In these systems the motor must be de-rated.
Rotary phase converters constructed from a three-phase electric motor or generator ?idler?. These normally require some kind of starting aid and capacitors to improve phase balance and power factor. This is a two-motor solution. One motor is not connected to a load and produces the three-phase power, the second motor driving the load runs on the power produced.
A digital phase converter uses a rectifier and inverter to create a single voltage with power electronics, which is added to the two legs of the single-phase source to create three-phase power. Unlike a VFD, it cannot vary the frequency and motor speed. Since phase converters generate one leg that must match the voltage and frequency of the single-phase supply, it does have the advantage of a sine-wave output voltage and excellent voltage balance between the phases.

Benefits of using a Phase Converter
Installation Simplicity (less wiring)
Phase converters are the ?Plug and Play? option for simple phase conversion
Operating both Resistive & Inductive Loads
Only generates three phase power
Best option for a general type power conversion based on HP or AMP requirements
Can be used for multiple machines to run at the same time.

Let?s now define ?VFD? or ?Variable Frequency Controller?, also sometimes termed ?inverter?, ?Freq. Drive?, etc?
This is where terms can be crossed. Also known adjustable-frequency drive, variable-speed drive, AC drive, or micro drive, a VFD is a type of adjustable-speed drive used in electro-mechanical drive systems to control AC motor speed and torque by varying motor input frequency and voltage

The VFD ?Speed? controller is a solid state power electronics conversion system consisting of three distinct sub-systems: a rectifier bridge converter, a direct current (DC) link, and an inverter. Voltage Source inverter (VSI) drives are by far the most common type of drives. Most drives are AC-AC drives in that they convert AC line input to AC inverter output. There are other types, but this is the most common.







As you can see the line power is wired directly to the VFD and then the VFD is directly connected to the motor, they are not connected to switches or any front end starters or other devices. The control now takes place either through an operator interface or through ?external signal? controls, like separate push buttons and switches to activate certain tasks, like ?Start?, ?Stop?, ?Forward/Reverse? , and an external ?potentiometer? to adjust speed.

Types of Drives
Sensorless Vector
(SLV)

Control method in which the stat or currents of a three-phase AC electric motor are identified as two orthogonal components that can be visualized with a vector. One component defines the magnetic flux of the motor and the other the torque, controlled without and external sensor, utilizing an algorithm.

Teco L510

Voltz per Hertz
(V/HZ; V/F)

In variable-torque applications suited for Volts-per-Hertz (V/Hz) drive control, AC motor characteristics require that the voltage magnitude of the inverter?s output to the motor be adjusted to match the required load torque in a linear, V/Hz relationship. For example, for 460 V, 60 Hz motors, this linear V/Hz relationship is 460/60 = 7.67 V/Hz. While suitable in wide-ranging applications, V/Hz control is sub-optimal in high-performance applications involving low speed or demanding, dynamic speed regulation, positioning, and reversing load requirements. Some V/Hz control drives can also operate in quadratic V/Hz mode or can even be programmed to suit special multi-point V/Hz paths

Vector Drive
(Closed Loop w/encoder feedback)

Similar to the Sensorless Vector, but provides even more accuracy due to utilization of an encoder providing the signal feedback, resulting in an improved percentage of speed regulation, improved speed range at constant torque, and improved minimum speed at 100% torque at % of base speed.Weg CFW500



VFD Control Performance
AC drives are used to bring about process and quality improvements in industrial and commercial applications? acceleration, flow, monitoring, pressure, speed, temperature, tension, and torque.This ease of control makes more complicated applications such as vertical mill, drill press, lathe, even a saw or air compressor the perfect fit for our selection of VFDs.

Fixed-speed loads subject the motor to a high starting torque and to current surges that are up to eight times the full-load current. AC drives instead gradually ramp the motor up to operating speed to lessen mechanical and electrical stress, reducing maintenance and repair costs, and extending the life of the motor and the driven equipment.

Variable-speed drives can also run a motor in specialized patterns to further minimize mechanical and electrical stress. Most VFD manufacturers produce drives that are 115V input capable up to 1 or 1.5HP rated and 208-240V 1 phase input capable up to 3 HP factory rated. If higher horsepower is needed, a VFD can be de-rated (oversized) to allow single phase input and still provide the horsepower rating. This will require your motor FLA rating and sometimes the S.F. (service factor) of the motor depending on the application.Hitachi VFD

Installation Parameters
What?s involved in the installation of these devices? In situations like lathes, drill presses and vertical mills, the idea is to wire your power from your breaker box to the outlet or hardwire from the breaker box (utilizing ) the proper breaker size.

Then, you go ahead and wire the VFD for the incoming power line and also directly from the VFD to the motor on the machine. What this means is removing the current motor starters from the circuit. Any and all machine installed switches that are on the equipment will need to be rewired to the terminal boards on the VFD for separate external signal control. They cannot be left on the machine as is and be expected to work.

Benefits of using a VFD
Motor Speed Controller
Phase conversion by-product
Precision Frequency Control
Soft Starting motors
Energy Savings
HVAC, Pumps, CNC, Wood Working, Conveyors, Mixers, Hoists, Cranes, Elevators for performance improvement.
Building Automation Systems
When to use Phase Converter or use a VFD
So what about the difference in products? If you are trying just to connect a machine up for plug and play operation with minimal performance gain in a single phase to three phase conversion. Well your best solution for the above example is a ?Phase Converter? since this is a general type power conversion based on HP or AMP requirements. This is best for refrigeration equipment, portable equipment on trailers, freezer?s etc. or when the machine has numerous low voltage controls and internally for the machines control panel.

VFD?S are very well suited , if you have a pump, vertical mill, drill press, lathe, even a saw or air compressor where not only phase conversion is desired, but the desire to control speed of that motor for fine tuning your application, then a VFD is your desired controller. Most VFD manufacturers produce drives that are 115V input capable up to 1 or 1.5HP rated, 208-240V 1 phase input capable up to 3 HP factory rated. If higher horsepower is needed a VFD can be de-rated (oversized) to allow single phase input and still provide the horsepower rating. This will require your motor FLA rating and sometimes the S.F. (service factor) of the motor depending on the application.

Learn more about sizing single phase VFD?s here!

What?s involved in the installation of these devices? In situations like Lathes, Drill Press, Vertical Mills Machines, the idea is to wire your power from your breaker box to the outlet or hardwire from the breaker box (utilizing ) the proper breaker size. Then wire to the VFD for the incoming power line, then wire directly from the VFD to the motor on the machine. What this means is removing the current motor starters from the circuit. Any and all machine installed switches that are on the equipment will need to be rewired to the terminal boards on the VFD for separate external signal control, they can?t be left on the machine as is and be expected to work.

This is just a quick summary of what is involved when switching out a motor starter for a VFD to control a motor on one of these machines and the differences on when you would want to use one vs using a phase converter. There is a place for these devices.
 
That is what I thought he was going to be talking about, not something electrical that only if you were in the bussiness would you have ant idea what the post was going to be about so you could skip opening it.
 
(quoted from post at 20:51:29 02/01/19)
VFD stands for variable frequency drive, also known as an inverter.

I'm out. I thought it was going to be Veterinary Feed Directive!
 
I have several of them on my asphalt plant.they determined the speed a 440 volt motor.the motor runs a piece of equipment like a aggregate binn. A large exhaust fan with dual 100 hp motors.these motors can run at different speeds depending on the demand for asphalt at a certain ton per hour.i have around fifteen if them on my plant.
 
(quoted from post at 20:52:39 02/01/19) I forgot to add, VFD's have minimal inrush on starting, as the capacitors on the DC bus supply that.

I would go 150% minimum over size to convert single phase to three phase . 200% oversized will allow greater than 100% FLA to the motor to improve starting torque .
 
Will a VFD work with a compound wound DC motor?

Nope.

There are speed controls for DC motors, but they control armature voltage and/or field voltage, or both independently, but they are not a VFD as is being discussed in this thread.
 
(quoted from post at 15:14:39 02/05/19)
Will a VFD work with a compound wound DC motor?

Nope.

There are speed controls for DC motors, but they control armature voltage and/or field voltage, or both independently, but they are not a VFD as is being discussed in this thread.

Well.........yes in a round about manner . If a set of diodes was used to rectumfry the AC into DC . The VFD can vary the voltage and current to control the DC motor . Not ideal but doable .
 
(quoted from post at 19:11:26 02/05/19)
(quoted from post at 15:14:39 02/05/19)
Will a VFD work with a compound wound DC motor?

Nope.

There are speed controls for DC motors, but they control armature voltage and/or field voltage, or both independently, but they are not a VFD as is being discussed in this thread.

Well.........yes in a round about manner . If a set of diodes was used to rectumfry the AC into DC . The VFD can vary the voltage and current to control the DC motor . Not ideal but doable .

Common VFDs do not like to be connected to a non-inductive or non-resistive load. Not real sure how one would behave if connected to a 3 phase diode module which was then connected to the compound wound motor. I'd be surprised if it worked. I think you would get some kind of output fault error condition on the VFD.

I'm not gonna try it either. :shock:
 
Unfortunately if you don't us VFD rated motors they can fail sooner with a VFD. The normal 60 hz signal is a sign wave and a VFD changes the ac to dc and chops it so the signal is square. Amazing things though, really come in handy.
 

We're in the process of installing 2 vfd's in a local mill, one is for the 75 hp motor on the band resaw to adjust the blade speed depending on the species of wood being sawed.
The other smaller vfd will be used on a 5 hp motor to control the speed of the feed rolls on a horizontal edger.
A amp meter on the saw motor will allow us to set the feed rate for maximum production without overloading the saw motor.
The soft start we removed from the resaw will be used the start the 75 hp edger saw motor.
All motors over 30 hp in the mill have soft starts except the hydraulic pump motors, they must start fast to overcome the increasing pump pressure.
All of the equipment in the mill runs on 480 volt 3 phase.
 
(quoted from post at 15:10:51 02/08/19) Unfortunately if you don't us VFD rated motors they can fail sooner with a VFD. The normal 60 hz signal is a sign wave and a VFD changes the ac to dc and chops it so the signal is square. Amazing things though, really come in handy.

A set of inductive coil filters between the VFD and the motor will knock off the worst off the high voltage peaks .
 
I would run that with a double PID Loop, one for rate and one as an amperage override that will cutback the speed if over amps. We do that in the natural gas compression so that it will limit on both pressure and flow.
 
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