Little more about hay

[grandpa Love]

I put a ad on Facebook asking for 1-5
acres to cut and bale on shares. Just
something to use my tractors on. A couple
that we used to go to church with
contacted us about the 40 acres. They are
out of town until next week. They may not
even want all 40 cut. Wait and see I
guess. Also had a guy contact us about
cutting his 3-4 acres for $2 a bale.
Have several other offers for 50-50 split
on a couple acres. Definitely going to
talk to the folks with 40. It's close to
a couple friends of mine that do hay so
if I have a break down I might be able to
get some help! Thinking I will get that
haybine. Price is right. No hydraulics
on any tractor but I guess it could be
ratcheted up and down. It's a new
Holland.

 

[grandpa Love]

Haybine in question

Better than a 9 ft sickle mower?

 

[Adirondack case guy]

You need hydraulics to be able to lift the header of a haybine on the corners and ends of the field with each pass/round so it does not plug. A hand ratchet ain't going to cut the mustard so to say.
Loren

 

[Traditional Farmer]

I cut a whole lot more than 40 acres of hay with a 7ft NH sickle mower every year,works fine for me.My cows,goats and the lady that buys some of my hay all seem to be fine with it.I sell way more than enough hay to cover all my haying related expenses every year.
Sounds like a good deal you are getting into with the 40 acres,just don't cut more than you can reasonably handle at one time.

 

[old]

Back years ago when I got my NH 460 hay bine it did not have a hyd cylinder on it but the place I got it from had a device a lot like the center link that you could use the lower and lift the hay bine and while it was not ideal it did work

 

[greg oliver]

Kevin haybine looks good. We had a NH 477 for a while pretty trouble free. No hydraulics on the M? I?m with Loren it?s got to go up and down. After you plug it a few times you?ll get the picture.

 

[john in la]

Do these fields come with a contract for several years so you can justify fertilizer???
Who pays for the fertilizer???

Or do you just plan on cutting a un-fertilized weed patch and trying to sell it for quality hay???

A lot more than cut rake and bale goes into quality hay.
Timing to cut at the right grass stage.
Weed control.
Seeding.
Fertilizing.

But then again I have seen guys cut and bale a field that had been flooded and call it hay.

 

[Tractorcedric]

Yes you are going to need hydraulics, at least one one way circuit. What tractors do you have?

 

[jeffcat]

Hate to tell ya. Those haybines do a terrific job. They need a hydraulic cyli der. There are mechanical replacements you can stick in but you need to keep getting on and off.

 

[jeffcat]

Those crushing rollers release a little bit. Tell him about using a BIG pipe wrench! .

 

[Traditional Farmer]

As a substitute for tractor powered hydraulics,there are 12V electric over hydraulic power packs like used on electric lift gates and electric dump beds.One of those would easily lift the haybind up and down,would give you live hydraulics and push button controls too.

 

[old]

I never had to get on and off when I did not have a hyd cylinder one just has to learn to work around the fact you cannot lift it up and down all the time. I did it for at least 5 year and did just fine

 

[rustred]

i use the new Holland 489 model , next newer one with a 560. and its yes as loren told you. you NEED hydraulic's. so get your self one of those Charlyn hyd. units to bolt up to the pto on your M and you will be away. I have one on a super M and one on a super w6. and they do work. I will post a picture of it tomorrow so you can see what it is.

 

[JDIH]

I've been in your shoes. The small acres can be had for cheap as the bigger guys dont want to mess with <5 acres. I dont know what your local prices are or what type of material you would be baling, but I'd guess closer to $1/bale would be fair. A 50/50 split on shares would get you an opportunity to use your equipment but wouldn't be very profitable. Most guys I know are 75/25 in favor of the guy with the equipment. Acreage and fertilizer responsibility would need to be factored in too.

 

[tomturkey]

Grandpa Love; yes much better than a 9' sickle mower. A good working sickle mower will move out pretty well until windblown hay crop continuously falls on the bar and plugs things up, one direction works great the other is a pia. The mower conditioner pulls that hay thru the sickle and the rollers pull it on thru crimping and pushing it out the tailend. I have litterally went non-stop from start to finish (no plug ups) on my fields Never ever accomplished that with a sicklemower. My NH 489 has seen a lot of acres but still does a great job. Be a great time to move up to a tractor with live pto and hydraulics. Can't imagine not being able tolift the haybine to avoid a windrow when closing out a field. gobble

 

[JDIH]

If your M doesn't have a belly pump you should be able to find one easily and reasonable. Non-live hydraulics and PTO running a mower have a little learning curve, but not too bad

 

[Donald in MN]

I have a new holland buyers guide from 1980 for that haybine it requires a 35 hp tractor. this is ok for flat fields but if you have hills that machine will push you around. the buyers guide says they weigh 2763 lbs. the smalles tractor we used was a 62 hp utility type IH it was ok on my hills but i could feel it pushing the tractor we usually used the 856 because it had a wide front. i did have a neighbor use ours on his farmall M and it handled it ok

 

[1sarge]

Grandpa, the M has a belly pump, have you tried the hydraulics. I never tried to see if it works or what the oil even looks like in it.

 

[Northvale PA]

I am going to agree with others you want a working hydraulic cylinder to lift the header up. Unfortunately on a 488 just about the entire machine needs to be lifted and it s heavy. Pay as little as you can to bale some one else?s land. You will want / need as much $$$ as you can get. Hay is a lot of work. And if you are doing small bales it is 2x a lot of work. I pay $1.50 to bale straw. But, I am only baling. No cutting, raking or fertilizer. A picture of things going well on a perfect sunny day.

 

[Leroy]

Just put the valve on your row crop ford.

 

[tom upton]

488 is a nice machine. Still make same model today as far as I know. I have a 479 which is similar and it does a great job of cutting hay. Like others say I wouldn't want to run without hydraulic lift. src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto7545.jpg">

 

[JMS/.MN]

You"ll want to lift and lower that Haybine more often than just when entering and leaving the field, if you want to do a decent job of making hay.

 

[grandpa Love]

qsarge......I will look it to it tomorrow. Thanks. I had no idea.

 

[JayinNY]

Does it have standard guards or stub guards on it?

 

[old]

I used a NH460 for year with no hyds and did a good job it takes practice but one can make a good square corner and not miss much if anything. I did if for 5 plus years. Pulling it behind my Oliver 77. Yes when i added a hyd cylinder it was easier but it did not seem to do better then before you just need to be good at driving

 

[showcrop]

Your share needs to be well above 50%. The most I ever paid was 20% and that was with the owner paying me to lime the field. Try estimating your equipment time and rates, and see what your costs are. Your county extension should be able to give you hourly rates.

 

[DoubleR]

I was looking on Amazon yesterday at electric pumps for my dump trailer for 225 for the pump, reservoir, and control with free shipping. I don't know why you couldn't make one work for your haybine.

 

[Gary201]

I agree with the majority that you will need hydraulics, but if you have a lot of fire ants in your area you will quickly discover why most in the South have gotten away from any type of sickle bar haybine. Your clutch leg will get tired from all of the backing up to clear plugs. If you tractor doesn't have live or independent pto you will become frustrated quickly trying to cut 1 acre, 40 acres would be a nightmare. I feel you would be better off finding a disc or drum mower, discbine, or even sticking to your sickle mower. A simple sickle mower will handle fire ant mounds a little better than a haybine because there is nothing behind the cutterbar to collect dirt and build up a plug. However, if fire ants aren't an issue, go for it! I cut many acres as a teen with a Hesston PT10, less noise, dust, and no flying rocks! One more thing about fire ants, after you've destroyed there home, they will move into your bales quickly. Don't leave bales on the ground long if at all.

 

[coshoo]

If you're wanting "just something to use your tractors on", 40 acres would probably be more than you want to do. Try it on a few acres to start with, to see if that is more enjoyment than you can stand.

As far as rates, I generally made hay for 2/3 of the crop, landowner get 1/3, with bales laying on the ground. I'd pass if they wanted to do 50-50, may have done a little for 60-40. If he didn't want any of the hay, I might buy his share, or I might pass. This was in the '70's, and most folks with 5 acres or less would just give it to me, to get it taken off.

 

[Leroy]

I agree with Old you do not need to lift all the time, only leaving the field or if you have a problem if you are mowing around the field and that is the way we did it when farming. Now if you want to just go back and forth like it seams most want to do now yes you need to lift for every turn. Can see no advantige in doing that, I would think it would take longer to mow the field, only advantage to that is you only have long rows to bale, no short rows but then you are running empty across ends to also wast time where baling around field you do not have that. And I think for about $300, possibly $400 grandpa could put the hydrolics on his row crop Ford that he would need for the haybine and it is plenty of tractor for that. Possibly they would come in handy for other things as well. Would let him use a boom pole with hydrolic top link in his deck-fence bussiness. We had a Case 555 machine that is same as the Heston PT-10 and ran it with a 41 Farmal H that we added the belly pump on. No power problems. And we always mowed around field. We might split a field once or twice to make same as smaller fields but always mowed, raked and baled around field, no running empty across ends and no problems with turns and always pulled a wagon, first flat bed and later kick baller with rack bed.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 19:04:46 03/05/20) I never had to get on and off when I did not have a hyd cylinder one just has to learn to work around the fact you cannot lift it up and down all the time. I did it for at least 5 year and did just fine

So how did you do it? After about 8 times around a field, the corners get too tight to make so you have to start making straight back and forth passes. With no way to lift the haybine, it's just going to suck in the down windrows on the headlands, make a mess at best, and plug at worst.

Discbines don't care, they suck up the windrow like a vacuum, but the old sickle based machines are a nightmare.

 

[David G]

I think 40 acres is more than you would want to bite off, maybe start with 10-15 acres.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 08:09:38 03/06/20) I agree with Old you do not need to lift all the time, only leaving the field or if you have a problem if you are mowing around the field and that is the way we did it when farming. Now if you want to just go back and forth like it seams most want to do now yes you need to lift for every turn. Can see no advantige in doing that, I would think it would take longer to mow the field, only advantage to that is you only have long rows to bale, no short rows but then you are running empty across ends to also wast time where baling around field you do not have that. And I think for about $300, possibly $400 grandpa could put the hydrolics on his row crop Ford that he would need for the haybine and it is plenty of tractor for that. Possibly they would come in handy for other things as well. Would let him use a boom pole with hydrolic top link in his deck-fence bussiness. We had a Case 555 machine that is same as the Heston PT-10 and ran it with a 41 Farmal H that we added the belly pump on. No power problems. And we always mowed around field. We might split a field once or twice to make same as smaller fields but always mowed, raked and baled around field, no running empty across ends and no problems with turns and always pulled a wagon, first flat bed and later kick baller with rack bed.

Leroy, I have been mowing with a discbine for maybe 20 years. Most of the time I am running at 5MPH and rarely shift down. I go around the whole field five times then go straight down the middle. I never run across a whole end, half at the most. after going down the middle I will go up and down one half until it starts to get tight at the end, and then I swing left and go back up on the other half. and go up and down on the inside until the first half is done, then finish up second half. The reason that it is how "most want to do now" is that there is other work to be done.

 

[rick n ohio]

Problems in the hay field can be very frustrating can make a guy quite and sell his equipment faster than he bought it

 

[rustred]

I just realized that that Charlyn pump on the pto wont work cause you need the pto to run the haybine.

 

[Bill VA]

40 acres can be a lot of hay or a lot of riding the tractor, depending on the fertilizer/yield. Take it in manageable chunks so that if a piece of equipment breaks, not everything is down with the potential of being ruined.

IMHO the New Holland 488 is a very good haybine. Another choice is the Hesston 1110 or 1120 (and their CaseIH counterparts). Make sure the rollers are not missing chunks of rubber - rollers are expensive to replace.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[jacksun65]

Closer the field the better. traveling is hard on older equipment.

 

[grandpa Love]

JayinNY I don't know the difference.......

 

[JayinNY]

They hold the knifes down on the cutterbar. I have stub guards on my 489, iv never plugged it, but I had others say the standard guards can plug more, depends on crop condition I guess.

 

[JayinNY]

My mistake, the clips hold down the knifes, the guards support the knife from the bottom, I just did mine this fall, you think I?d get it right!

 

[grandpa Love]

Good information. Thanks. I will have to see what's on it.

 

[GreggM]

can I talk to you about 9/16" cotton picker spindles or spikes . Looking for old ones [email protected]

 

[SVcummins]

That how I cut with a sickle mower I lay it off in
lands just like you would plow

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 00:59:02 03/07/20) That how I cut with a sickle mower I lay it off in
lands just like you would plow

And, SV it is the same with chopping and combining corn. around the outside a few times, to make some room, then strike off lands. Git 'er done!

 

[ChasK]

(quoted from post at 20:16:48 03/05/20) A couple
that we used to go to church with
contacted us about the 40 acres. Definitely going to
talk to the folks with 40.

To all those saying 40 is too much to start with...you don't have to lay it all down at once. Depending on field shape, I'll just do outside rounds first. If that is baled up it makes cutting and raking the rest of the field a whole lot easier! I just cut what I think I can get baled before the next rain. if in a good weather window, I'll cut 8-10 acres a day to keep a one man operation going... After I finish a day at the office!

I also make a few half bales that are easier to put in my tapered feeders for sheep.

 

[Determined]

Like Traditional Farmer said, get a 12 volt hydraulic pack.

You can get them set up for 2 way hydraulic applications, one way cylinder applications, mechanical control, electrical control etc.

I have used one to;

- Run a cylinder for a bale grapple

-Raise and lower a carted wheel rake while raking hay with a yard truck

-Raising loaders on disabled tractors

-Raise implements into transport mode when picking them up from an auction with a pick up truck

-Run the hydraulics on the rear ramp door on a trailer

-Bench test cylinders

Just an all round handy thing everybody should have one or two or three of in my opinion.