Long 610

[NatWester]

I have a Long 610- it's hard to start (have to pull-start it) and it has excessive blow-by (it's spitting out oil) - low compression. I know it needs rebuilt. my question is can I just hone the cylinders and replace the rings? I hope don't have to replace the cylinders because from I've read, they are press-in/machine fit.....?

 

[trackrat]

It's all in how worn the cylinder bores are and if they will clean up. You won't know till you tear it down

 

[caterpillar guy]

Sounds like your to that point on it if you are pushing oil and low compression on it. I don't know if they press in or not. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess if they are like that they are probably dry sleeves and will come out with a puller then with them in the freezer and some cold brake fluid will drive in fairly easy on the last half of each one. Do clean thew counter bore whre the top lip of the sleeve goes in and polish the block bore a bit with scotch bright or steel wool to get all the debris in there out.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Before you turn a wrench, make sure you can get parts to overhaul the engine in that tractor. Engine parts for far far more common tractors are becoming difficult to find, simply because people aren't overhauling them as often as they used to. The Long 610 is a pretty uncommon tractor.

...and I don't mean do a google search that shows places with the kits "in stock." Quite often that's smoke and mirrors. The vendor does not actually stock the parts, and has them drop shipped from a distributor. They have no idea if the distributor has any in stock. They will take your money and sit on it for weeks.

 

[JOCCO]

Ebay used to have rebuild kits for them.

 

[NatWester]

.

 

[NatWester]

I've got the heads off and I can still see the crosshatch pattern on the cylinder walls, so I'm thinking just rings. Next question: can I access the connecting rod caps by removing the large cover/plate on the bottom of the oil pan? Not the whole pan?

Here's what Google says:
AI Overview


Yes, you can generally access the connecting rod caps by removing the large cover/plate on the bottom of the oil pan (sometimes referred to as the oil sump) on many older tractors, including the Fiat-based Long 610
. This allows for an "in-frame" inspection or replacement of the rod bearings without fully splitting the tractor or removing the entire oil pan assembly, although it is often tight.

 

[used red MN]

I've got the heads off and I can still see the crosshatch pattern on the cylinder walls, so I'm thinking just rings. Next question: can I access the connecting rod caps by removing the large cover/plate on the bottom of the oil pan? Not the whole pan?

Here's what Google says:
AI Overview


Yes, you can generally access the connecting rod caps by removing the large cover/plate on the bottom of the oil pan (sometimes referred to as the oil sump) on many older tractors, including the Fiat-based Long 610
. This allows for an "in-frame" inspection or replacement of the rod bearings without fully splitting the tractor or removing the entire oil pan assembly, although it is often tight.

Hello Nat, welcome to YT. By your wording etc. I think I am safe in saying you are probably not the most experienced person at major engine repair. I would highly suggest that you acquire a repair/service manual for your tractor. Normally, I don’t do this because it is pointing you towards a competitor to the YT sales department. In your case YT does not carry a manual for your machine. Go to the website Farm Manuals Fast and search for your tractor’s manual by make and model. Right now it looks like the service manual download from there is $25.

 

[JOCCO]

I've got the heads off and I can still see the crosshatch pattern on the cylinder walls, so I'm thinking just rings. Next question: can I access the connecting rod caps by removing the large cover/plate on the bottom of the oil pan? Not the whole pan?

Here's what Google says:
AI Overview


Yes, you can generally access the connecting rod caps by removing the large cover/plate on the bottom of the oil pan (sometimes referred to as the oil sump) on many older tractors, including the Fiat-based Long 610
. This allows for an "in-frame" inspection or replacement of the rod bearings without fully splitting the tractor or removing the entire oil pan assembly, although it is often tight.

Nat yes you can re ring it But do check for sleeve/bore wear. Not sure on bottom plate but if you take the whole pan off you will have better access to check the rods/main bearings. Last check the head and valves very carefully.

 

[NatWester]

I was able to access the rod caps by talking the just the bottom plate off, but I had to remove the oil pump too. Here's what I found: broken ring land on more than one piston. Lots of carbon buildup, so it's not fresh brake

 

[used red MN]

I was able to access the rod caps by talking the just the bottom plate off, but I had to remove the oil pump too. Here's what I found: broken ring land on more than one piston. Lots of carbon buildup, so it's not fresh brake

So now the question is how bad did the broken ring score up the cylinder? Show photos.

 

[JOCCO]

I was able to access the rod caps by talking the just the bottom plate off, but I had to remove the oil pump too. Here's what I found: broken ring land on more than one piston. Lots of carbon buildup, so it's not fresh brake

Check on evil bay they used to have rebuild kits for them. Seems many 510 2610 etc. were the same just one more cylinder.

 

[showcrop]

Your question about plate removal vs. oil pan makes it sound like MAYBE the oil pan is structural cast steel, which it is on various tractors. If this is the case it can be lowered, using a floor jack by removing two bolts that go through the bolster into the block and replacing them with two that are four inches longer. then remove the rest and slide the bolster back on those two long ones.

 

[DanielW]

I'm not familiar with the Long engine. But if you can pull the pan off, on most engines you can usually roll a set of main bearings in quite cheaply and easily with the pan off, without having to drop the crank or split the tractor: Unbolt the lower main caps, roll the top half of the main bearings around the crank and out (make sure you roll it out the correct way - most mains & rod bearings have a little 'wedge' on them to prevent them spinning in their bore and will thus only roll out one way). Roll new top halves in. Replace bottom halves in caps and bolt back together (being sure to centre bottom cap). Since you have the rods out, you'd do the rod bearings & wrist-pin bushings when you have them out. Proper practice is to gauge and check them and the crank to see if a grind & oversized set is need. But even if you just put another standard set in with nothing else done, you'll have given it a little fresh life cheaply and easily. A couple of small brass punches and a good strip of nylon/UHMW to help rolling them out around the crank is usually all you need.

It's definitely not a 'proper' rebuild by any stretch and is rather quick/dirty. But as long as you can get the pan off, for the cheap cost of a bearing set I'd definitely be doing them (assuming I didn't want to put the time/money into a full rebuild). I wouldn't want to do a ring/top-end job and then have a pile more compression going into the same old/worn rod and main bearings.

I'd also recommend sending the head off for a valve job (be sure you send it somewhere that knows the importance of valve protrusion). But if you're really trying to do things quick/cheap, I suppose a thorough inspection of the head & valves and then perhaps putting it back on as-is might be ok. I'd definitely be spending the few hundred $$ while I had it apart to get the head properly gone over, but that's your choice.

This chap (link below) specializes in parts for imports tractors from that era. I've bought a few things from him. He's a bit of an odd duck, but he knows all the import tractors from that era very well and stocks lots of parts:

Your Long 310, 320, 350, 360, 445, 460, 510, 550, 560, 610 Parts Source!

New replacement parts for Fiat Oliver, Cockshutt, Minneapolis Moline, 1250, 1250-A, 1250A, 1255, 1265, 1355, 1365, 1450, 1465 tractors

www.importtractorparts.net

 

[JOCCO]

I'm not familiar with the Long engine. But if you can pull the pan off, on most engines you can usually roll a set of main bearings in quite cheaply and easily with the pan off, without having to drop the crank or split the tractor: Unbolt the lower main caps, roll the top half of the main bearings around the crank and out (make sure you roll it out the correct way - most mains & rod bearings have a little 'wedge' on them to prevent them spinning in their bore and will thus only roll out one way). Roll new top halves in. Replace bottom halves in caps and bolt back together (being sure to centre bottom cap). Since you have the rods out, you'd do the rod bearings & wrist-pin bushings when you have them out. Proper practice is to gauge and check them and the crank to see if a grind & oversized set is need. But even if you just put another standard set in with nothing else done, you'll have given it a little fresh life cheaply and easily. A couple of small brass punches and a good strip of nylon/UHMW to help rolling them out around the crank is usually all you need.

It's definitely not a 'proper' rebuild by any stretch and is rather quick/dirty. But as long as you can get the pan off, for the cheap cost of a bearing set I'd definitely be doing them (assuming I didn't want to put the time/money into a full rebuild). I wouldn't want to do a ring/top-end job and then have a pile more compression going into the same old/worn rod and main bearings.

I'd also recommend sending the head off for a valve job (be sure you send it somewhere that knows the importance of valve protrusion). But if you're really trying to do things quick/cheap, I suppose a thorough inspection of the head & valves and then perhaps putting it back on as-is might be ok. I'd definitely be spending the few hundred $$ while I had it apart to get the head properly gone over, but that's your choice.

This chap (link below) specializes in parts for imports tractors from that era. I've bought a few things from him. He's a bit of an odd duck, but he knows all the import tractors from that era every well and stocks lots of parts:

Your Long 310, 320, 350, 360, 445, 460, 510, 550, 560, 610 Parts Source!

New replacement parts for Fiat Oliver, Cockshutt, Minneapolis Moline, 1250, 1250-A, 1250A, 1255, 1265, 1355, 1365, 1450, 1465 tractors

www.importtractorparts.net

Daniel sometimes I think were all a bit of an odd duck!

 

[used red MN]

Your question about plate removal vs. oil pan makes it sound like MAYBE the oil pan is structural cast steel, which it is on various tractors.

A preview of a parts catalog for the Long 610 available from a YT competitor shows this.

 

[rustred]

a little info one rolling in new mains. use a cotter pin that fits in the crank oil gallery, and just enough of the head sticking out to grab the brg. then you rotate the crank pushing the brg. around. slicker than snot. hence the term rolling in new brgs. same procedure is used to remove the old ones.

 

[DanielW]

a little info one rolling in new mains. use a cotter pin that fits in the crank oil gallery, and just enough of the head sticking out to grab the brg. then you rotate the crank pushing the brg. around. slicker than snot. hence the term rolling in new brgs. same procedure is used to remove the old ones.

How in the heck did I not know that trick. Thanks!

 

[used red MN]

How in the heck did I not known that trick. Thanks!

The crank oil cross-drillings are mostly drilled at an angle. I clamp the pin in a vise at an angle and with a hammer flatten the eye at an angle to accommodate this.

 

[NatWester]

Cylinders aren't too bad. I wish they were wet-sleeve tho