Long OT about School and Post Below

I am writing this because I read the school post below and found it very interesting. I am 27 years old and grew up in the country. I didn't really take school too serious but managed to get B’s. All I wanted to do was follow in my father’s path and become a pipe-fitter. Those plans were changed when I got offered a scholarship to play college football. I ended up getting a degree in history with certification in elementary K-5 and special education K-12. I am in my 4th year of teaching and Friday the 27th will be my last day. I will be taking a job in the oil in gas industry. There are many reasons why I am leaving the field of education but I will give you a few and a few common misconceptions that teachers and administrators must deal with.

First is students, the general population has this idea that all kids come to school and are ready to learn and sit at their desk and are respectful to teachers and classmates. This is not the case in public schools today. I teach in an Emotionally Disturbed classroom. I have the worst s behaved students in the district. Daily students throw chairs, cuss myself and aides out, and try to hurt other students. My classroom is an extreme case but regular education teachers deal with the same issues. The also deal with students coming to school hungry, disrespectful, dirty, and dealing with adult problems. All of these things greatly affect the ability for students to learn within the classroom. In my short career it is easy to see that parental discipline is not a priority in this day in age with most students. Parents do not ask what their child did to get in trouble it is now what did the school do. These were issues that most of us did not have when we attended school. I assume most of you are like my father when I got in trouble at school I got it twice as much at home.

The next area is the curriculum that is taught in school. Parents become up in arms about common core and new ways of teaching. The fact about this is it is not teachers or an administrator making these calls it is federal and state government that oversees education. Teachers have little to no say in any of these changes and speaking out to teachers does not help. If parents are truly concerned they need to speak out to their local state representatives.

There has also been an uprising by parents about statewide testing. This again is something that teachers and administrators have no control over. If it were up to teachers state test would be done away with. The amount of instructional time lost to testing is a very large number and it does not benefit students.

I always hear about is teachers having summers, holidays, and snow days off. I agree that a teaching schedule is very nice and it is perk of the job. However If you look at the amount of time teachers put in after hours and before school as well as the amount of scrutiny teachers are put under the pay is not worth it. It is very cost prohibitive for a college student to spend 20k a year on tuition to make 30k dollars starting out teaching. Teachers also are held too much higher standards than most profession. I do not know of anyone that has a job where they have three professional evaluations a year, plus must have students pass a certain number of questions on a test or get dinged on their evaluations.

I guess the last point that I would like to make is the fact that in the United States we educate everyone. Students in my room who throw chairs and don’t care about school get offered the same educational benefits and opportunity as a gifted 5th grade student. This is not so in other countries as they are weeded out and only their best and brightest move on. When you look at this in terms of a private sector job if you are taking your truck or tractor to the repair shop and being unruly or disrespectful they can deny you service. If you are being a bad patient a Doctor can refuse to see you, if you are being a rude guest at a restaurant you can be asked to leave. If you have a crazy cow you can sell it. This is not true in the educational field.

At four years of teaching I realize that this is not a profession that I want to be in so I am getting out while I can. I know that my efforts are better off somewhere else and it is better for students to have a teacher that truly wants to be in the classroom and teaching. I do have a huge amount of respect for effective teachers and what they do every day in their jobs. Many people do not truly understand the amount of work they put in and the efforts they put in to changing children’s lives. This is long and off topic but I felt it needed said.
 
Jim,

Your dissertation would have been much more understandable and reader friendly had you applied proper grammatical techniques. That is one longgggggg paragraph.

Mark
 
I know what you are saying, my wife just retired last Spring after teaching 38 years and she would agree with your post. The GOP political climate here in Indiana has turned very hostile against teachers since a teacher running as nnalert was elected as head of education instead of favored
Rep who was indicted for using State workers and money for election. You are better off to get out early before it is too late.
 
(quoted from post at 16:21:53 02/18/15) I know what you are saying, my wife just retired last Spring after teaching 38 years and she would agree with your post. The GOP political climate here in Indiana has turned very hostile against teachers since a teacher running as nnalert was elected as head of education instead of favored
Rep who was indicted for using State workers and money for election. You are better off to get out early before it is too late.

Wisconsin is beating up on education too.
 
So I always wondered about the principals and superintendents ? What do they actually do that they deserve 6 figure salaries ? our school system is ALWAYS trying to hit us up with new taxes and the first thing I think of is to cut these 6 figure guys out.
 
I am actually finishing up my masters in administration right now and I too thought it would be a better and easier job than teaching and that I would be making more money. In reality they make less for the amount of hours they put in. They are definitely pulled away from their families more due to the fact they have to attend so many more meetings and are required to attend district sponsored events. Administrators have the unbearable task of implementing changes and new programs that the state decides need to be completed regardless of thinking how it will affect schools, teachers and students. Also administrators have to deal with all of the issues that are passed along from teachers with students in their classroom and handle these issues. That may require them to report things to child protective services and attend court hearings. Along with this they must also complete all the state mandated teacher evaluations that require a pre and post conference as well as the observation three times a year. Plus create building goals that they must be able to show growth towards. Around here there are very few 6 figure administrators…. 60k is the starting point.
 
Thanks for your post-JohnDeereJimOhio.
I have a daughter who teaches special education at a local school and have listen to her talk about the very thing you have discussed.
 
(quoted from post at 08:41:24 02/18/15) Thank you for your service.

My wife retired from teaching a couple of years ago and one of our girls who stated she would never be a teacher is teaching. The stories she tells are crazy about what goes on at her school.
She would vent to her mother about what goes on and a lot of the stories were about having too many bosses. She was a coach,health and PE teacher along with secondary duties such as before school monitor. Her one complaint was she had too many bosses and they would override rules that were laid down before the school year began. This was mostly in the high school,but now she is in the middle school with less pressure and fewer bosses and she is liking it more because of one administrator who is "old school" according to her.
 
As a "Highly Effective Teacher" (as per my evaluation last year) I agree with Jim and would not encourage anyone to get into teaching in this day and age.

It has become the school's responsibility to:
1. feed
2. exercise
3. improve their self-esteem
4. teach them about anti-bullying
5. involve them in sports and other extra-curricular activities
6. document "growth"
7. report on abuse/neglect
8. provide writing utensils and other classroom materials for families who are too poor to provide them - even though every member of said family all have the latest I-phone....
9."leave no child behind"

oh yeah, #10. lastly we're supposed to prepare them to be contributing members of society.

God Bless us everyone.

and God Help us.
 
Well said. Spent 33 years in the profession and had mostly positive experiences and, looking back, it was the right vocational choice for me.
The biggest problem we have today in this country is that our young people aren't "hungry" for an education. We've had it too good too long unlike most Asian countries where those students excel. Until parents become parents and accept responsibility to insist their children take education seriously, nothing is going to change. Too much free loading in our society for that to change presently.
 
I have been teaching for 13 years and have had it as well. The disrespect, the theft, the drugs, and violence is way more than I expected. We have on average 2-3 fights a day at my high school. We have had kids caught with guns and knives. I can't even count the amount of times I have been swore at. Our district adapted a policy of no suspensions or expulsions. I had co-workers catch 4 kids smoking marijuana and the administration didn't even suspend the kids. Where else in society can all of this go on and the person not be arrested. Public education is a complete mess. I want out every day, but am trapped. I just survive day by day until June every year. I Need insurance and to pay the farm mortgage. Not much else you can do with a teaching degree. The sad part is, I do my very best every day (like I was raised to do) and very few of the kids really care. That is why there is so much burn out. Lack of parenting is what is ruining society. I have 2 young boys and I hope and pray that I am doing a better job of raising them than what I see every day. They are learning young what discipline and hard work are. They both love the farm and the work.
 
Thanks for your insightful post. My take away from this is parental discipline seems gone in today's world. Parents seem to be looking for a scapegoat whenever something goes awry with their kid in school. Teachers in my day had no problem disciplining unruly students which probably can't be done in today's world. The last place you wanted to go to was the principals office.
State testing appears to have gotten out of hand in our state also, trying to meet a hybrid of state and federal testing standard to meet requirements for federal funding for schools. We are west of your state, where politicians with no educational training or background are meddling with the state agency for education and causing mass confusion. You made some excellent points for us folks not familiar with education in today's schools.
 
My daughter just started teaching math this year. Her biggest problem so far is mainstreaming. That's putting all kids together in one class regardless of their abilities. She has the best and brightest lumped in with special education and all in between. She can't get some kids to even try. They turn in blank tests and will not even attempt homework. She tells them if they will just put anything on paper they will get partial credit. It's all they will do to just sign their name. Some kids won't even take it if you give it to them.

slim
 
Well so it goes with American eduction system,the teachers blame the parents, Administration and Gov't,the Gov't blames everyone else,the parents blame the schools,teachers and Gov't and so it goes around and around.I'm waiting for someone to take responsibility for the decline.
 
I am 69 years old, been a long time since high school. Someone please correct me if I don't remember correctly.
To the best of my memory wasn't any grade below 60 was an "F"? ? May have been different elsewhere, I was in Alabama.
Wasn't that number been lowered some years ago?
 
You are referring to Glenda Ritz who is nothing more than a hack doing the teacher's union business. The reason the Indiana state legislature is proposing eliminating her position is because NOTHING is getting done in her department. It's Ritz's way or no way. Kind of reminds you of O"Bama. If a meeting is not going her way she has a hissy fit and storms out, end of meeting. There are nnalert AND nnalert on the board. She can't get along or work with any of them. Good Riddance.
 
It goes the other way, too. My daughter teaches high school Spanish in one of the wealthiest school districts in the state. Most of the kids are highly motivated and are in her class because they want to be. Biggest discipline problem is kids texting in class, but every once in awhile, she confiscates a couple of phones for the rest of the day, and that rights the ship.

As parents, you reap what you sow. If you are "achievers", your kids probably will be, too. If you insist on good behavior at home, the kids probably won't be a problem in school. The problem now is that the disrupters aren't afraid they'll "get it even worse" at home, because they won't. Their parents are either absent, drunk, high, or all three, and couldn't care less.

Grandma had a saying that I dismissed as just being circular and meaningless at the time- "Poor people have poor ways, and that's why they're poor." But now, I see the wisdom of it. You can't make people be good parents (its unconstitutional, you know), and you can't make anyone want to achieve, now that the non-achievers get a free ride by the guvment. Back in the day, you had to achieve or starve. I don't think our societal "solution" to that problem has done anybody any favors.
 
I also teach, this is my 42nd year. I love my job and my students. But, there is no way in hell I'd want to teach in elementary school or high school. I started teaching in high school and yes that's still in the era of discipline with the board of education.

Teachers should not be subjected to the environment you describe. That's why parents concerned with a good education often home school.

I teach Agriculture (many different courses) in a community college. We are fortunate to get students that want to learn and more often than not actually pay for their classes. Something that in my experience makes a huge difference. We still do insist in proper classroom decorum and have the power to remove unruly students from the classroom. We are also fortunate to have a president and administration that backs the faculty up.

If you love to teach, give a community college a try.

I wish you every success in life.

Larry
 
I taught school for 30 years,retiring in 1999. The Louisville, Ky. school system. One of the largest in the U.S. I fully understand your frustration, however I would never have quit in the middle of a school year. You will be replaced with either a permanent sub. or a teacher unfamiliar with the students. What you are doing simply makes a bad situation worse. I know, the job offer won't wait. Ellis
 
I have two sons teaching. One science, other math and both teaching 8th grade. One is Minn, one in Wisc. They both are getting real close to retirement and both did other jobs before teaching. Math teacher worked accounting for Arthur Anderson for about 3 years. Science teacher worked locally with DNR, lumber yard etc.

At first, teaching seemed to go quite well. The one who worked local would tell the other teachers he made more starting out than his dad made working over 25 years as a mechanic. Now days he is totally wanting to get it done and over with.

Things are not going well in Wisc and we have some serious disagreements with the reasons for it. I believe the teacher unions were so totally unwilling to negotiate reasonable contracts that the rest of the population blame the teachers and it put everyone at each other's throat. He doesn't see it that way. I even went so far as to look up the teachers union leaders and the dollars they are making. No need to complain about corporate exec pay checks. Lets just say they get a whole lot more than the teachers they are supposed to be representing.

Our former governor, Arnie Carlson, was endorsed by the teachers union. After he took office, he tried to negotiate with the union on upcoming contracts and just threw up his hands. He said it was their way or nothing. So, it turns out nothing in a lot of cases. Around here, teachers and farmers are usually at each other's throats. Me, working for and with farmers and having two sons teaching, puts me in a lot of situations where I have to just bite my tongue. There is always two sides to every story.
 
Jim ... thank you for your service! You have truly been on a battlefield. I am without words as your posting is so overwhelming.

My usual comment when meeting a "teacher" or a school bus driver is, "YOU are 1/2 step away from sainthood." Maybe I need to raise that to "one heartbeat".

Best of luck in the future.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 17:38:08 02/18/15) Boy do I ever agree with this one First off TEXAS get a life.
Now when I go to pay taxes and see this 8x10 copy taped to the tax office window I want to puke! I went to public school till 1964 and after that it was in a private military school and then college that I and my folks paid for. I have no kids and am 65 years old. NOW why the hell do I have to pay for your damn kids!!!! Just under 3/4 of my money is blown on your little snot nose punks! I worked in a school system from 1974 till 1980 and knew some very nice kids. Most all of their folks were old school. The rest were absolute horse road apples!!

Interesting rant about paying so much for schools when you were one of the folks getting paid by that tax money for six years.

I have to agree there is some reform needed in the whole school system, not just the local schools. I'd be for eliminating the Federal education department and leaving the decisions to each state. The market will work out the good and the bad states through how good their "product" (the kids) are educated and ready to contribute to society.
 
I am also 69, and I seem to remember 70 as the failing point. Could be wrong, as I have been before. LOL
 

Jim, thank you for the post. Very few posts bring out replies that are completely in unison as this one is turning out to be.

Marilyn, my wife, is a true blue died in the wool elementary teacher. For almost forty years her existence in this world was teaching and helping young people. As the years progressed in her career she started to see high school type problems creep into grade school and even preschool. More and more of her time was spent in behavior control and less in actually assisting these kids in learning skills. The last year she was in the classroom she lost a tooth restraining a preschooler to keep him from throwing chairs at the other kids. At the end of her career she was in administration dealing with staff and parents. Even then troubled kids were being hauled to her office because staff couldn't deal with them and keep the attention of the other kids. She has always been the type of person who stays in the trenches no matter how tough the situation is but for her mental and physical health she had to leave her profession. If she could have just taught children and not have to deal with the rest of the crap I'm sure she would still be in that classroom.
 
(quoted from post at 17:39:01 02/18/15) I just survive day by day until June every year. I Need insurance and to pay the farm mortgage. Not much else you can do with a teaching degree.

Lack of parenting is what is ruining society. I have 2 young boys and I hope and pray that I am doing a better job of raising them than what I see every day. They are learning young what discipline and hard work are. They both love the farm and the work.

If you have the opportunities near your farm you can get another job. There were two of my former high school teachers working here when I started back many years ago. I've known and have run into many former teachers in unrelated fields to teaching... there is hope.

The fact that you know the problems by what you see tells me you will do a good job with your boys.
 
(quoted from post at 19:45:08 02/18/15) I have two sons teaching. One science, other math and both teaching 8th grade. One is Minn, one in Wisc. They both are getting real close to retirement and both did other jobs before teaching. Math teacher worked accounting for Arthur Anderson for about 3 years. Science teacher worked locally with DNR, lumber yard etc.

At first, teaching seemed to go quite well. The one who worked local would tell the other teachers he made more starting out than his dad made working over 25 years as a mechanic. Now days he is totally wanting to get it done and over with.

Things are not going well in Wisc and we have some serious disagreements with the reasons for it. I believe the teacher unions were so totally unwilling to negotiate reasonable contracts that the rest of the population blame the teachers and it put everyone at each other's throat. He doesn't see it that way. I even went so far as to look up the teachers union leaders and the dollars they are making. No need to complain about corporate exec pay checks. Lets just say they get a whole lot more than the teachers they are supposed to be representing.

Our former governor, Arnie Carlson, was endorsed by the teachers union. After he took office, he tried to negotiate with the union on upcoming contracts and just threw up his hands. He said it was their way or nothing. So, it turns out nothing in a lot of cases. Around here, teachers and farmers are usually at each other's throats. Me, working for and with farmers and having two sons teaching, puts me in a lot of situations where I have to just bite my tongue. There is always two sides to every story.

The big education squabble in Wisconsin is with the university system. Walker doesn't want any unions, anywhere. He wants Wisconsin residents to become uneducated low wage earners. If that's what he wants why not stop educating students after the eighth grade and put them on a road gang with picks and shovels. At least some of the roads might get fixed. Walker is also getting ready to run for president. He didn't finish his collage studies, and his message to the country is you don't need an education. "Look at me, I don't have a degree and I'm going to be president of the U.S.A." I'm sick of the whole mess.
 
Back when I was in High School we didn't have those kind of problems. I know it was a different time but the main reason was if you did any of the things mentioned they would beat the #$$% out of you. Maybe we need more of that.
 
My wife is a teacher and I am an accountant. I make about 4 times what she makes and she says for the money she would never do my job. While both have the same education and within a few years of the same amount of time in the profession in her opinion there is no comparison in the time and effort spent at work.

While she has 3 months off in the summer I am working. While she has every holiday known to man off, I am working. When school ends at 3:15, she knows she is leaving to go home at 4:00, while I may be at work until 6:00 or 10:00 or when ever my work is done. If she has to work a Saturday its on the school calendar at the beginning of the year, if I have to wrk an entire weekend I might find out as late Saturday morning.

If I screw up and make a mistake my job can be given to someone else, she knows short of getting caught having relations with a student on her desk she has nothing to worry about. If the economy goes down the tubes I'm looking at pay cuts (been there) and addition duties - if the economy goes down the tubes the school district raises taxes.

You may want to rethink that oil and gas industry job, the layoffs are coming fast and furious with the drop in oil prices.
 
Sir you hit the nail on the head. I drive school bus a couple days a week and only have the kids a short time, but it's long enough for me. I have problem kids on the bus and I believe most of those kids just don't know what proper behavior is. Their parents expect the school, teacher, bus driver, and anyone else to raise their kids.
 
One of those careers whereby you have to like it, to put up with it. Kind of like Law Enforcement, or Farming, they're not for everyone.
 
I love everyone blaming the parents. And it's true. But many parents today are afraid to say BOO to their kids.

The problem is that the government has stepped into our homes as far as kid raising goes. They tell us how and what to feed them, how they must be dressed depending on weather conditions and what we can do as far punishing them.

Rick
 
Remember it takes village to raise a child. So the town drunk, drug dealer and prostitute have their say too.

That's why I don't live in a village.
 
I just don't see much accountability by high salaried administrators as being stewards of taxpayer's money. When it comes to sports or cheerleader type activities, there is no tomorrow on the budget. FFA, building/ mechanic trades and some of the arts barely get acknowledgement.

My wife was on a school board for several years and had the unpleasant task of bi-annual salary negotiations with the teacher's union. Senior teachers received the majority of the raises due to their "steps" which left very little for new teachers.
 
I am 64 and 70 was the bottom line when I was in school. The worst thing a teacher could say to me. I am going to tell your parents.That would stop me in my tracks. Because I knew what would happen when I got home and it wasn't milk and cookies time.
 
(quoted from post at 20:37:43 02/18/15) You might want to show a little more respect for the next president of the United States.

I hope there's room for me in Canada if he is elected.
 
Always good to hear the other point of view on this subject. And having a wife who has worked in Special ED for 25 years I understand. You have hit the nail on the head.
 
Respect has to be earned, it doesn't come automatic. Sorry, I'll never respect the one that sits above everyone else in this country at present time. Keith
 
IDK what the nature of your new job is going to be, but maybe I can offer a tip. I am an hourly mechanic for a fortune 50 company with plants all over the world. We are given loads of corporate training (most of it cartoon like, but that's another story). Point is, many trainers are needed and if that's your calling, its a good gig. Myself? I work hard and send my kids to a Parochial school. Higher standards, safer, cleaner, and a little less govt.
 
All this sounds like the benefits of our degrading morals, disregard of the "old fashioned manners" and responsibilities of adult society and the influence of a socialist style of government....In other words life in our modern progressive America.
To all of you with problems I wish you the best of luck in solving them or making changes to avoid them....
 
I fully agree with your post. It is a wonder that we have any teachers at all that are still willing to go into a classroom .

I do remember when I was in school. Disruptive students got a free trip to the principal's office. We also did not have a handful of vice principals doing the principal's job.
Bullying was common. Different students were relentlessly harassed by bullies. In later years, though, the bullies did get some retribution.


I have been reading this forum for a couple of years, and I see many errors in spelling, punctuation, and word usage. I have never commented on them to this point, but today I will.
In your post, you started off mentioning your high school grades as mostly Bs. Notice, you used an apostrophe to indicate a plural. As a teacher, you should know that the apostrophe indicates possessive or missing letters as in the case of contractions. You also used TOO instead of TO regarding holding teachers TO a higher standard. In my senior English class, both of these were "mortal sins!" My teacher was adamant about proper usage of punctuation and words. You, as a teacher, should know better.
 
I spent five years as Buildings and Grounds Supervisor for a local public school district. I finally left in disgust. It didn't take me long to realize that the school district was not run by the school board and administration, it was run by the local sports booster club.

Classroom teachers who were turned down on academic projects because "funds weren't available" complained that all they had to do was find a way to tie the project to a sports program and the money would automatically be there.

The VocAg teacher wanted to take a class on a field trip to Husker Harvest Days (an event in Nebraska the equivalent of a second state fair) and was told transportation would not be available. At the next school board meeting, a board member whose son would have gone on the trip had it occurred asked, "When was the last time we missed an athletic event because transportation wasn't available?"

I said, "Good shot, Jim".

The ironic thing was, the district wasn't even a sports powerhouse. I recall the football team went 0-9 one year. It was like the district was so fixated on improving their sports image, they forgot about academics.

Even in college at the University of Nebraska, it used to infuriate me to see students work as hard as any athlete preparing themselves for academic and performing competitions, and then when you opened a newspaper all you got was 12 pages of sports.

My rant for the day.
 
I will have to differ with you(dhermesc),most teachers today don't get 3 months off,6-7 hr.days as you say.Lot of 7:00-7:30 til 5:30-6:00 days.School gets out June 10-15th.teachers start back Aug.first,school Aug.10-12th.plus most are required to be doing training-up dating or something for the school.So most are lucky to get more then a week off at a time.Plus now the teachers have to attend school on snow-bad weather days,even when school is canceled. PLUS THE UNRULY KIDS.
 
I can't say for sure about your district, but here the transportation for things like getting the football team to a game is paid by participation fees and funds raised by the booster club.
 
The comments on Scott Walker are off base, he is not totally anti-union, but the unions are totally anti-Walker. The nnalert and the public sector unions had formed an un-holy alliance to dominate the state, even so Walker still got elected. Remember after his election he proposed a "Budget repair bill" Since the fine leadership of Former Governor Jim Doyle left Wisconsin (traditionally a very abundant state) ripe to be taken over by the nnalert, and in fact they took the Governor's seat and control of the Wisconsin legislature (both houses) the Governor's proposed budget repair bill wasn't very well received by the public sector union or the nnalert (remember all the Democratic State Senators went and hid in Rockford Illinois to prevent the State senate from convening), an action Dave Hanson (the Senator from Green Bay) won't acknowledge or defend. You really have to wonder about the nnalert's grasp of reality when they get a recall election AND RUN THE SAME CANDIDATE AGAINST HIM HE BEAT THE PREVIOUS YEAR! Remember it was Governor Walker who worked to try to get union jobs at a mine in northern Wisconsin, and it was the nnalert who prevented that from happening (all the governor had to promise is they would issue a mining permit for a specific term and not have the ability to revoke it at will (like say if the mine owners didn't donate enough money to the right politicians).

Two final comments:

To the Unions, if you demonize, vilify and attack a political candidate and his family, don't be to surprised if he gets elected and won't do anything for you, don't be to surprised if he tries to take things away from you (and gives them to supporters)it's the way politics works.

I lived in Wisconsin for 14 years, I find it to be the most corrupt State I've ever lived in (and folks I was born and lived in Illinois for 12 years). I say this because at least in Illinois when the governor is caught red handed they go to jail, in Wisconsin they get re-elected. And it's all biased, look up the Wikipedia articles on Jim Doyle and Scott Walker, you'll read about the accusations against Walker but nothing about Doyle's railroad to nowhere (strategically designed to upgrade a key supporter's rail line at tax payer expense) or his awarding a no-bid contract to a travel agency that was controlled by another Doyle supporter or even the nnalert's cutting of educational funding in a budget then blaming it on Walker and using it against him in campaign ads. Democratic logic if WE (nnalert) cut the educational budget by 25%, and then the first budget the newly elected nnalert has he only increases it by 20% we'll campaign that the educational budget is 5% less than it was in the budget of 4 years ago and it's the nnalert fault.
 
I totally disagree with you, dhermesc, and I believe you are very misinformed.

First, no teacher gets 3 months off in the summer. Most are required to attend professional development and other various classes during the summer in order to keep up their certifications. If your wife is home by 4pm every day, then I want to know what she teaches and the school district in which she teaches. (Yes, I am a teacher). I rarely leave for home before 6:30pm. You see, because I TEACH all day, every period, I cannot possibly grade all my assignments at school. I do not work it into my schedule of lesson planning, because lesson plans are just that: lessons for the benefit of the student, not for my benefit to grade papers. I, therefore, use all my student school hours to TEACH, actively teach.

I guarantee that I and my coworkers work just as many hours as you do. Granted, there are some people (including but not limited to teachers), who work less than the both of us. But that happens in any job/profession. Not fair, dhermesc, to lump that on all teachers. If your wife works fewer hours than you, than she is of the minority of teachers. In addition (and perhaps more important than hours spent at the work site), I log many, many hours AT HOME creating tests, quizzes, homework/in class assignments, as well as grading all those pieces of work, all at home. I frequently go until 11:00pm on weekdays and every Sunday late afternoon-evening is spent on that same school work.

As far as your comment “short of getting caught having relations with a student on her desk she has nothing to worry about,” that is sheer ignorance on your part. We are held to very high expectations, perhaps higher than many other professions. I can get in trouble from my superiors for many things, none of which have anything to do with having nnalert with my students. And now that these ridiculous state tests have come out (a WHOLE other story), I can be fired for poor test performance by my students. I am held accountable for all test scores, even when students miss 10, 20, 30, and yes 40 days of school a semester! Can you be fired for something that you have absolutely no control over??

Lastly, no school district can levy its own tax increases!! If you had a college degree, I would assume you would know that tax levies for public school purposes are voted on by the public.

Just wanted to clarify a few items…..
 
The thing in Wisc I was referring to was with public schools, K-12, not the latest with higher education. Walker did what the voters wanted him to do and cut the union bargaining powers. Each school district has some leeway in how to handle it. Like I said on here before, degrees are not everything, heck I have a PHD (post hole digger). Too darn many degrees as far as I am concerned. Son's have them, son in law has them , grand kids have or working on them. Daughter does not. She is a good hard working individual also, earning her keep every day. Good paying job. I don't care who you vote for, but you have to live with what the majority votes for. Look at me, I have to live with the federal mess we have. Not the one he inherited, the one he has made for his own.
 
Aren't public schools a form of socialism? Are you suggesting our public schools should be eliminated and replaced by private and parochial schools?
 
Not in Kentucky. The school board sets the tax base. There is no public vote on it. I wish it were different. We just put in a 4 million dollar athletic field in a county with a population of about 7000, because the superintendents son plays football. And they rarely win a game.
 
I've got a son that is in his 2nd year of teaching HS history. His 1st year he had a hard time finding a job so he took a teaching position in a school where he was the minority. Out of the 130 or so students he said he could count on 1 hand how many really wanted to learn and they were unable to learn because of the 125 that wanted to cause trouble. My son is a pretty big guy, 6'2" and 275#, He spent more time as a bouncer breaking up fights than he did teaching. He was about ready to quit.
This year he got a job in a small rural school in a farming community. He took a 30% pay cut but he loves it. His biggest complaint is the interference by the government in what and how he teaches. They are basically forcing teachers to teach government propaganda.
When the department of Education was formed in the late 70's that took too much control away from the local school districts. There were problem schools at that time but it has only become worse under government control. That being said it falls on the voters to correct the problem. Sitting at home on election day and blaming someone else is never the answer.
 
(quoted from post at 01:03:30 02/19/15) The comments on Scott Walker are off base, he is not totally anti-union, but the unions are totally anti-Walker. The nnalert and the public sector unions had formed an un-holy alliance to dominate the state, even so Walker still got elected. Remember after his election he proposed a "Budget repair bill" Since the fine leadership of Former Governor Jim Doyle left Wisconsin (traditionally a very abundant state) ripe to be taken over by the nnalert, and in fact they took the Governor's seat and control of the Wisconsin legislature (both houses) the Governor's proposed budget repair bill wasn't very well received by the public sector union or the nnalert (remember all the Democratic State Senators went and hid in Rockford Illinois to prevent the State senate from convening), an action Dave Hanson (the Senator from Green Bay) won't acknowledge or defend. You really have to wonder about the nnalert's grasp of reality when they get a recall election AND RUN THE SAME CANDIDATE AGAINST HIM HE BEAT THE PREVIOUS YEAR! Remember it was Governor Walker who worked to try to get union jobs at a mine in northern Wisconsin, and it was the nnalert who prevented that from happening (all the governor had to promise is they would issue a mining permit for a specific term and not have the ability to revoke it at will (like say if the mine owners didn't donate enough money to the right politicians).

Two final comments:

To the Unions, if you demonize, vilify and attack a political candidate and his family, don't be to surprised if he gets elected and won't do anything for you, don't be to surprised if he tries to take things away from you (and gives them to supporters)it's the way politics works.

I lived in Wisconsin for 14 years, I find it to be the most corrupt State I've ever lived in (and folks I was born and lived in Illinois for 12 years). I say this because at least in Illinois when the governor is caught red handed they go to jail, in Wisconsin they get re-elected. And it's all biased, look up the Wikipedia articles on Jim Doyle and Scott Walker, you'll read about the accusations against Walker but nothing about Doyle's railroad to nowhere (strategically designed to upgrade a key supporter's rail line at tax payer expense) or his awarding a no-bid contract to a travel agency that was controlled by another Doyle supporter or even the nnalert's cutting of educational funding in a budget then blaming it on Walker and using it against him in campaign ads. Democratic logic if WE (nnalert) cut the educational budget by 25%, and then the first budget the newly elected nnalert has he only increases it by 20% we'll campaign that the educational budget is 5% less than it was in the budget of 4 years ago and it's the nnalert fault.

I worked at the UW-Platteville for 28 years as a janitor, and I have to say, our big bad union was worthless. We always had to take the crumbs that were left after everyone else in the state got there's. My pay increase average for that 28 years amounted to 31 cents per hour per year. They always kept our pay increases low so we could hang onto our benefits. Then came Walker and pulled the rug out from under our feet. The first year he was in office I started losing $345.00 a month out of my paycheck. And each year after that the amount got higher. There's people working there that are collecting food stamps in order to feed their families. Now with this big budget cut all the janitors will most likely lose their jobs so academics can keep their share of the pot. I worked my butt of all those years and ruined my health. Now I'm sitting at home in constant pain. Can't do anything because of it. Great retirement.

Look into the budget deficit the state is going through with all of walkers tax cuts and give away. We're in a bigger hole than we ever were, and now he is going to defer debt payment for a year so he can loosen up some money to make the books look good. All governors do this to make themselves look good, but it leaves us with a bigger budget mess. I wish politicians had to use the same accounting methods every other business does, instead of the creative accounting they all get away with. It always leaves the tax payer holding the bag. Then all the dummy's blame one political part or the other. Neither are worth a pinch of powder in my book, but they sure keep us fighting amongst ourselves trying to defend them.
 
Your getting out because you can, you are obviously not too stupid or lazy to work a job in the private sector, the same cannot be said for many so called ''teachers'' today. Education in the USA has fallen to the current disgraceful level because of the national teachers unions protecting half wits and second raters and the federal and state governments meddling in every persons life, not to mention the local school boards and police departments etc. I don't know if or when people will ever wake up and figure out less is definitely more when it comes to any form of government and public education.
 
(quoted from post at 02:03:38 02/19/15) Your getting out because you can, you are obviously not too stupid or lazy to work a job in the private sector, the same cannot be said for many so called ''teachers'' today. Education in the USA has fallen to the current disgraceful level because of the national teachers unions protecting half wits and second raters and the federal and state governments meddling in every persons life, not to mention the local school boards and police departments etc. I don't know if or when people will ever wake up and figure out less is definitely more when it comes to any form of government and public education.

You can't always blame the unions for schools keeping the duds. There is a process to get rid of problem workers, but the administration always say's they can't get rid of so and so because of the unions. They can, but their just too lazy to deal with it, or so and so happens to be a good friend.

I don't believe we would benefit from a smaller government. This is a big country with a very large very diverse population. The populace needs to be governed or we'd have complete anarchy. Our other alternative would be to have a dictator. At least we have the option to pick our leaders and complain when things don't work out. It's better than dying of a 9 mm. brain aneurism if we were to speak our minds. We just need to be better at picking our leaders.
 
Here in Pennsylvania
No1 TWO teachers have been dismissed just last week in one school district. Both were s?x offending students.
No2. Officers of teachers union sit on the school boards adjacent to where they teach and negotiate wage contracts. You decide who gets the $ and the shaft.
No3. The Amish made a smart move back in the '50s and retained local control over their schools.
No4. No state can possibly be more corrupt than PA.
 
50 years ago kids graduating from 8th grade knew, comparatively, a lot more than a lot of kids today with a 2 year degree.

College isn't the answer for everyone. For most it's probably not. But we've had 40-50 years of acedemia pushing for everyone to go to college (and line their pockets), and government programs helping pay the way (making it easier for colleges/universities to crank up their rates regardless of real value), and everyone has heard the old "work smart, not hard" for so long, that too many are pushed into taking on boatloads of debt that they don't necessarily need.
 
Misinformed? My wife and I have only been married 18 years. I also didn't say HOME at 4:00 I said she LEAVES at 4:00. Mandatory plan period is part of their day.

As for the tenure part - you apparently have no idea how it works. My wife is rated every year and found to be in the extemporary and proficient range as a teacher. The woman in the room next to her is always complaining about how she is rated in the "improving" range in many areas, has been caught lying about everything from when she leaves the building to how she injured a student and yet she gets paid more than my wife because she's been teaching longer and has a master’s (THANK YOU NEA).

Recently a teacher in the neighboring school was caught with a student in her bed - she thought the pictures were a good idea until the student showed him friends. The NEA fought to keep her job so she was on paid leave for 6 months because they couldn't fire her until they had completed due process - until she was convicted of a felony then the school was able to skip it.

My BIL and my sister were both teachers, both spent decades in the same school district. Both retired in the mid 50s, and with all the time off from school he managed to farm 600-800 acres the entire time.

I have a college degree and I have served on our school board - just a little information for you:

Annual budget and tax levy; certification. Every school district shall be a municipality for the purpose of K.S.A. 79-2925 to 79-2968, inclusive, and acts amendatory thereof and supplemental thereto. The annual budget amounts of ad valorem tax to be levied of every school district shall be certified to the county clerk of the home county of the school district. The county clerk of the home county of each school district, the territory of which is located in more than one county, shall certify the final tax levy rate computed pursuant to K.S.A. 79-1803 of such school district to the county clerk of every other county in which a part of the territory of such school district is located.


The school board sets the property tax rates to fund the school district. That's why the school board is usually a much bigger deal than being on the county commissioners.

Whenever my wife and gets together with her teacher friends I hear lots of talk like yours "Oh, we work so hard for so little money" - must be something the union drills into your heads. Some teachers are worth much more than their pay and some are not worth the time of day - yet the union won't allow them to be paid for their worth - only on their seniority and education level.

When I started out as an accountant working for a CPA firm I was auditing schools in the summer (when the teachers were taking their vacations) and saw that starting pay was about 20% more than I was making - and they were off and I was working in their unairconditioned building (shut off for the summer) wearing a suit and tie.
 
(quoted from post at 14:53:04 02/19/15) Misinformed? My wife and I have only been married 18 years. I also didn't say HOME at 4:00 I said she LEAVES at 4:00. Mandatory plan period is part of their day.

As for the tenure part - you apparently have no idea how it works. My wife is rated every year and found to be in the extemporary and proficient range as a teacher. The woman in the room next to her is always complaining about how she is rated in the "improving" range in many areas, has been caught lying about everything from when she leaves the building to how she injured a student and yet she gets paid more than my wife because she's been teaching longer and has a master’s (THANK YOU NEA).

Recently a teacher in the neighboring school was caught with a student in her bed - she thought the pictures were a good idea until the student showed him friends. The NEA fought to keep her job so she was on paid leave for 6 months because they couldn't fire her until they had completed due process - until she was convicted of a felony then the school was able to skip it.

My BIL and my sister were both teachers, both spent decades in the same school district. Both retired in the mid 50s, and with all the time off from school he managed to farm 600-800 acres the entire time.

I have a college degree and I have served on our school board - just a little information for you:

Annual budget and tax levy; certification. Every school district shall be a municipality for the purpose of K.S.A. 79-2925 to 79-2968, inclusive, and acts amendatory thereof and supplemental thereto. The annual budget amounts of ad valorem tax to be levied of every school district shall be certified to the county clerk of the home county of the school district. The county clerk of the home county of each school district, the territory of which is located in more than one county, shall certify the final tax levy rate computed pursuant to K.S.A. 79-1803 of such school district to the county clerk of every other county in which a part of the territory of such school district is located.


The school board sets the property tax rates to fund the school district. That's why the school board is usually a much bigger deal than being on the county commissioners.

Whenever my wife and gets together with her teacher friends I hear lots of talk like yours "Oh, we work so hard for so little money" - must be something the union drills into your heads. Some teachers are worth much more than their pay and some are not worth the time of day - yet the union won't allow them to be paid for their worth - only on their seniority and education level.

When I started out as an accountant working for a CPA firm I was auditing schools in the summer (when the teachers were taking their vacations) and saw that starting pay was about 20% more than I was making - and they were off and I was working in their unairconditioned building (shut off for the summer) wearing a suit and tie.

Good post, you show that you truly have an understanding of some of the inner workings. I agree that teachers who are not proficient are not dealt with correctly. Districts are afraid to fire people for some odd reason. A teachers first three years in ohio they are on a one year contract and it is the perfect time to let them go because you need no reason. However many schools never take advantage of this.

I found it interesting as you said you worked in schools in the summer and the air-conditioning was turned off. You must be in the South because hardly any schools around here have air.

You also mentioned your starting pay as an accountant was 20% less than that of a starting teacher. I really have a hard time believing that. Not to call you a liar but accounting was my second choice for a major in college and I have many friends that graduate with an accounting degree. According to your math you made 20% less than a starting teacher. My first year I made $30,000.00. So you are saying a starting accounting job only paid you $24,000.00? I know my friends are making far more than that. I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful but those numbers do not add up in this day and age. Now if you looked at our top teachers on the pay scale they will be making over double of that 30k mark.
 
And you sir and your attitude are the reason nothing gets done. Ritz was duly elected and received more votes than are elected Gov. who appoints people on the education committee. Her getting more votes than he did and beating his crooked buddy Bennett is what is burning his behind.
 
Here in Ohio the school boards ask for a certain level of taxation and then it is voted on by the public.
 
I don't know where everyone lives that has a union that protects all the "half-wit" teachers. I've been teaching in MO for 20 years. If an administrator wants to get rid of a teacher they have no problem getting it done. The only thing our union does is require there to be a documented reason. I have seen many teachers shafted because they were outspoken against the administrator. The union didn't help them at all. I don't know, maybe in large cities where there are more teachers in a small area, the unions may be more active but not in rural areas. I love what I do for a living and love my kids, but I can testify to the fact that kids are not the same as they were 20 years ago let along 30 or 40 years ago. I have so many chiefs watching my every move and controlling everything I say and do that I will not feel bad about retiring with I get enough years in.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top