Looking to Buy - 4050 - Issues?

[radara4077]

Gents, I am going to look at a 4050 today (cab, FWD, 15 speed Powershift, 359 turbo engine), possibly to purchase. The pictures show a well-used tractor, which I'm not entirely afraid of, but if the bones are good and the price is right...

For context, these 50 series Waterloo machines are rare as hen's teeth around my neck of the woods, and I've been wanting one for years now. The opportunity to buy one of these local is one that may not come back around for some time.

Specifically, the AC doesn't work, and the guy mentioned that the transmission pressure light comes on at low engine RPMs. Should that light raise huge warning flags for me, or is it a common thing?

He says the tractor has about 6200 hours, but the pictures tell another story. I know to look at wear in the drawbar, side lift arms, pedals, steering slop, hydraulic function, etc. Am I missing something that I should BOLO for with the 15 speed Powershift, in particular?

He wants $17,500.

Thanks in advance!

 

[MSM]

I would be leery of it. His asking
price is alittle more than half of
what they are bringing unless the
hours are incorrect and it is pretty
beat, and down on rubber. Of the two
models the 359 powered is less
desirable than the 466 powered. Maybe
he is taking into account the a/c
problem and a possible trans problem.
But it is your money, just go into it
with your eyes open and expect to
dump some money into it.

 

[radara4077]

What would the low pressure light at low engine RPMs indicate on a 15 speed Powershift?

 

[Tx Jim]

993
I've owned a 4255 with 6076 engine since 1993.Mine has quad range trans. I think 6076 engines are very good engines because mine has over 11,000 hrs on the clock BUT I think a water pump such as the 6076 has is not one of ""JD engineers most shining moments"" because I've put 3(three) water pumps on my 4255 because of coolant leaking into crankcase. I'm aware that one is supposed to keep WP drain hole clean but it's very difficult to access for a near blind,nerve damaged person. I wouldn't run away from a 359 cid engine. If trans shifted correctly & hyd's operated correctly after reaching operating temp I'd buy that tractor in less than a heartbeat. I was told hrs on hour-meter on these model tractors weren't very easy to ALTER

 

[radara4077]

Thanks, Tx Jim!

Altering it is hard, you say? How often does the whole proof-meter just up and stop working (warranting a replacement which would read lower hours)?

Also, still concerned about the transmission pressure light at low RPMs.

 

[fdt860]

If you could take pressures, then you will be assured. Otherwise with oil very hot shift thru the gears and make sure that you can stall the tractor with the brakes.
A hose plumbed in the scv will warm the oil.

At that price and if you can split the tractor you will be fine.
Check also the pto brake and pto itself if you can.

 

[fdt860]

Also one think to consider, an electric tac 4050 at 6200 hrs has same usage than a 4040 with mecanical tach and 4000 hrs.

 

[IowaJohn]

Not sure $17,500 is cheap enough. My 4455
PS has 6,000 hours and the trans pressure
light never comes in when it's running.

 

[Tx Jim]

To confirm trans oil pressure one would need to check pressure with a gauge BUT flashing trans oil pressure light could be as simple as a faulty sending unit.

 

[turklilley]

You will need a new AC compressor, and probably a couple of hoses. The light
that comes on is nothing to worry about. Mine would come on at lower RPMs
several Deere Mechanics said don't worry about it. Their instruction was do
away with it, other tractors don't have it.

 

[radara4077]

So, I went to look at it. About what I expected. I think the tractor has about the number of hours stated (just over 6000), but I think those were some hard hours. The guy selling says he's only had it a year, and is downsizing.

The front FWD "knuckles" leak--the seal where the shaft goes into the hub. On both sides. One side appears to be a pretty bad leak.

There are some electrical issues on the tractor, related in part, I think, to the FWD button. The tractor will not turn over while the FWD button is engaged. disengage FWD, and the think starts just fine. Upon further inspection (the guy himself found it), one of the solenoid wires on the FWD clutch is disconnected.

He also installed a battery shut-off, as there is a "short" somewhere on the tractor that will drain the batteries if left hooked up.

None of the gauges on the dash seem to work (couldn't tell on the fuel gauge).

The motor seems stout. He had a 14' bushhog hooked up and let me mow down some thistles. The steering is tight and the PTO seems to work fine. How fast should it "brake" after turning it off, when attached to a 14' "flywheel"?

My biggest concern is the transmisson. I'll try to describe in detail what's going on. I've been on tractors with "shuttle shift/hydraulic shift" before, like a Deere 6410, a New Holland t[somethingorother].120, etc. The actual shifting felt at least a smooth as those.

But--almost every "first" shift if changing gears, the tractor wouldn't shift. You would have to move to the next gear, then it would "catch" and shift to that gear, then you could gear down to the one you wanted in the first place.

For instance, if you started in 2nd, to get to 3rd, you'd have to go to 4th, then back down to 3rd.

It also seemed to do this coming back down (like if you're in 6th, you have to go to 4th to get to 5th). The guy was honest about this before I drove it, and suggested there was a "clutch pack" going out. I know next to nothing about the Powershift, or even how it functions, but I have heard that term before.

Does this mean an adjustment-fix, or a "tear apart the transmission" fix?

Still a steal at $17,500? Or opening up a can of worms?

Thank you all!

 

[JD Seller]

When your shifting the transmission can you actually :"feel" the shift detents??? This is a totally mechanical shifted Power shift. I mean your moving a linkage that is working a rotary control valve. So if your just looking at the dash and moving the lever the shift valve may not be moving because the linkage is worn out. Clutch packs usually will not cause the skip shifting your seeing. They will cause missing gears or hesitating shifts.

If this guys is around a JD dealer It maybe worth your money to have them check the actual transmission pressures. A service call to check them out might be cheap insurance on know if your buying a tractor with an easy or expensive need repair. A good tech can tell you if any of the packs have low pressures. If the pressures are good and it does not slip in any gear, you just need the control valve and linkage repairs. That is not that costly.

The price is about right for the condition. I would buy it because I can do the repairs myself. If you hire them done you will have the price of a good tractor in it when your done, maybe more.

 

[chuck from neb]

I'd have the transmission checked out
before buying the tractor..also I'd
rather have thee 466 engine option much
better engine.

 

[larryanderson]

THe 359T engines are good and efficient.I prefer the proven 466.The powershift transmission are good but check to make sure PTO does not turn when unhooked from batwing. There was a sensor that was eliminated for trans temp. THe early 50 series had a different MFWD that wasn't as good and were changed after first couple of years.If none of the quages work I would assume tach might not either.FRom what you told us the A/C needs repaired at least $1K.I would have it checked at JD dealer and I don't know if it is company wide but ours has free inspection on tractors 25 years old.I bought one of the nicest 4450MFD 6200 one owner hours with duals and weights for $37K.I know of people that have put over $10K in a power shift that they just thought needed an adjustment.On this tractor I wouldn't assume but have it inspected.They are a very good tractor and sell well if good.6000 hours is low hours but some people can hurt them in one day.

 

[MSM]

I would say walk away from it. No way
does it have 6000 hours. Too much
wrong and worn out. Unless you are
capable of doing all the work
yourself, you will have several
thousand in parts to reseal the front
end fix the air, replace or repair
the wiring harness, then you still
have to address the worn out shift
linkage and what ever else is wrong
with the trans, plus whatever else
you find while doing the other
repairs.

 

[radara4077]

Thank you all for the replies.

JD Seller, yes--you can "feel" where each gear "belongs," it just won't go into that gear until moving past it, as I describe.

Shifting was smooth, didn't drift between or in any gears, or jerk between shifts.

I believe I will have it looked at. Dad knows some JD mechanics that worked back in the 70s and 80s on these machines. He is going to try to reconnect with them.

I will keep you all updated!

 

[radara4077]

Spoke with the "local mechanic" to which I referred earlier. He also seems to think, based on the symptoms, that it's a linkage or valve issue as opposed to a clutch pack issue.

I'll keep you all updated.

 

[radara4077]

Let's say the local JD dealer doesn't make "house calls." Even if they do, my guess is the guys in their shop have had extremely little experience with a 30, 40, or 50 series Powershift. The're just *not that common* around here.

It's possible I can get the equipment needed to check the pressures. And it's probable the mechanic to which I reffered earlier knows how to check the pressures. What is the "acceptable range" for those pressures?

Also, other than a gauge, what kind of connector do I need?

Thanks!

 

[larryanderson]

If seller will let you just take it to closest dealership.I would be surprised if they don't have a technician qualified to check it out.Not everyone has the latest or even wants the new computer operated tractors and at our local dealer there are always some older tractors being worked on.As I deal in some nice older tractors I have had some large dealers call that don't want the 40 series and older on their lots.I would say the 40/50/55 series have increased in value in last 5 years.I actually like the 8000 series because of cab and faster road speed but my customers don't.

 

[NY 986]

It would not surprise me that the recently installed mega dealer here has no technicians that know 4000 series tractors. Lots of turnover since they came in. The other closest dealer is like you mentioned that they don't want 40 or 30 series tractors on their lot along with 00 and 20 series combines.

 

[radara4077]

(quoted from post at 12:31:18 08/18/19) It would not surprise me that the recently installed mega dealer here has no technicians that know 4000 series tractors. Lots of turnover since they came in. The other closest dealer is like you mentioned that they don't want 40 or 30 series tractors on their lot along with 00 and 20 series combines.

Agreed. I am almost certain the same thing is the case with my dealer.

That being said, I have a real live mechanic from that era who is going with me. I just need to know what tool or tools to round up for him when we go...

 

[radara4077]

Still trying to organize this endeavor.

While I'm at it, does anyone know the size and type of wrench/socket needed to open the fill plug on the FWD front gear box (in the front hub)? On Dad's 2550, it's a hex-head deal, about 3/4 of an inch. I intend to check for metal in the oil of the front hubs, in case some kind of gear chewing is what caused the leak.

 

[radara4077]

Just called. Local dealer will pick up the tractor to take to their shop for $100+ and "check it" for $100/hour.

And then I have no idea if the guy doing the checking even has any idea what he's checking for.

If anyone knows the fitting(s) I need to put a gauge (already have the gauge) on the transmission to test for pressure, and what those pressure ranges should be, I would *greatly* appreciate it.

 

[Bob]

(quoted from post at 09:23:16 08/21/19) Still trying to organize this endeavor.

While I'm at it, does anyone know the size and type of wrench/socket needed to open the fill plug on the FWD front gear box (in the front hub)? On Dad's 2550, it's a hex-head deal, about 3/4 of an inch. I intend to check for metal in the oil of the front hubs, in case some kind of gear chewing is what caused the leak.

According to jdparts.com, the 2550 front hub oil check plug takes a 12MM hex bit and the 4050 front hub axle oil check plug takes a 13MM hex bit.

 

[radara4077]

Thanks, Bob!

 

[radara4077]

Bumping this up one more time in hopes someone more knowledgeable than me will come along and let me know what kind of tool I need to check these pressures, and what the "acceptable range" for those pressures would be...

 

[radara4077]

UPDATE

Couldn't tell you what it's called, but the fitting very closely resembles one for an airhose--you have to pull back a "collar" that lets the female end (on the gauge hose) attach to the male end on the tractor. There is a male connector labeled "System Pressure" or "Sys Press" or something similar just under and behind the steps to get into the cab.

Pressure measured just shy of 200 lbs (on a 500 lb gauge) at operating temperature and 1900 engine RPMS (procedure for the 30 series PowerShift).

I'm buying the tractor. I'll keep you all updated...