M power steering/ more problems! Help

[dschaefer55]

Plan was to run charlyn PS motor of live power pump. I bought this used pump several years ago, was supposed to fit farmall M, well it does not. I can get 3 of the four bolt holes to line up but 4th bolt on top right (or top outside away from motor block side) of pump is about the width of a 3/8" bolt too wide. With gear on live pump it would slide onto engine drive gear like it is supposed to but the same 4th bolt does not line up. I took drive gear off live pump for the best chance to see how all 4 holes line up with gear out of the way and it was same, 3 bolts lined up but not the 4th bolt. For now I am going to put distributor housing back on to get tractor running. Then I will tee in PS motor & priority valve to existing 2 spool valve system for my loader run off PTO pump. When I push in clutch PS won't work. Not the ideal setup, but will do for now. Any thoughts or ideas?

 

[dschaefer55]

glennster, in a post dated 07-17-2015 05:47:25 Talking about PS belt replacement & a Saginaw pump mounted up high on M. He uploaded a picture of power steering pump belt on a M. This narrow belt runs off crank shaft on pulley behind fan belt pulley. Any one familiar with this PS pump set up? Top of the picture cuts off most of the view of PS pump setup. This PS pump is mounted higher than governor mounted pump.

 

[glennster]

the 4th bolt hole is not a big deal. m+w came out with a live hydraulic pump to retro fit on the m and h tractors. the very late m and super m had a slightly different timing cover, and the live pump was a direct bolt in. i installed an m+w pump on my 1948 m and had the directions that came with the pump. the odd hole needs to be plugged and re-drilled. the directions had you run a bolt in the hole, cut it off and file it smooth and flat to match the surface of the timing cover. then you temporarily mount the pump using the three bolts and re-drill the 4th hole. you are going to be drilling about half of the sawed off bolt when the new hole is located. then you tap the hole, and you can now mount the pump. the directions were kind of vague on getting the hole drilled exactly. i found some bushings at the hardware store that were a snug fit in the pump, i think they may have been 3/8 by 1/4 inch od and id, and were an inch or two long. slide one in each end of the pump mounting hole, then use the 1/4 inch drill bit to drill a pilot exact center in the front cover. one located, you can go with the bigger bit to match the tap. i cant remember if the mounting bolts were 3/8 or 7/16 diameter bolts. also, before you plug the hole, measure the depth of the old mounting hole and be sure when you drill the new hole you dont go too deep and come out the front side of the cover. as for the char lynn set up, i have the original char lynn manuals scanned on my computer at the shop, if you want copys i can email them to you. read all the manuals a couple times first, as there are a few things that are hard to pick up first time thru. also, you can run the ps pump off the generator belt, you need to flip the genny bracket so it raises the genny up higher, and use a longer belt.
i wont be at the shop tomorrow, but will be there tuesday, my email is open

 

[IAtractorKid]

Governor mounted pump runs off crank pulley. The higher mounted pump runs off the water pump & generator belt. Both systems work well.

 

[glennster]

heres a couple pics of the eaton pump driven off the genny belt

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank">

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<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank">

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[dschaefer55]

Thanks a lot glennster. When I look to buy bushings are the 3/8 OD & ID listed on package? The pump bolt hole is 3/8". What if I can't find bushings the size that I need? Can I start drilling with 3/8" drill bit or will it catch the bolt that is in plugged hole and mess up drilling? Please email me the manuals, that would be great. I'll put my email in this post and also send it via email to you. Thanks again

 

[dschaefer55]

my email is [email protected] I forgot to put it in last post

 

[glennster]

You can start with the 3/8 drill to get a centering mark, then switch to the bit you need for the tap. Be sure to drill straight as if you go in crooked, you may not be able to get the long bolt in.

 

[glennster]

Another thought, you could use a dewalt pilot point bit, that would give you a nice center reference

 

[glennster]

Opps, saginaw pump, not eaton.

 

[Hugh McKinney]

Could I ask what vehicle your Saginaw pump came off of? Does it make any real difference whether it is from, say, an F350 Ford, or a Chevy Malibu? We have a limited selection around here in our wrecking yards. Thanks.

 

[David G]

Nice paint on that, I can only dream of doing that good.

 

[dschaefer55]

I have Charlyn pump and charlyn PS motor. But could you send me picture of Saginaw pump and it's pulley so I have an idea of what they look like. Thanks

 

[glennster]

The pump they used was also used on the 1964 1/2 mustang. Napa still has the pump available but it does not come with the resevoir tank. I can post the part number tomorrow.

 

[dschaefer55]

to glennster and any one else can chime in. I did not put live pump on. But now my M won't start. I marked on distributor rotor when I removed it and put it back in same spot on timing gear. I put new plugs, plug wires, points, condenser, rotor, distributor cap. Now M won't start, turns over but will not fire. I removed distributor cap and other stuff so I could see points, then turned out lights and pushed starter button but could not see any spark. M tractor manual describes "Timing the Distributor to the engine" I have not done this. I read about it not sure if I understand it as I am not a mechanic. Any thoughts?

 

[glennster]

hugh, the pump is still available from napa. the part number is nsp846551. if you need the filter that goes in the resevoir, it is a napa part number 1653.

 

[glennster]

and yes, prolly any pump that you can fit will work.

 

[dschaefer55]

Thanks glennster the PS pump in your pictures on the M, is that a Behlen pump? About the mustang PS pump available at NAPA: does it come with a pulley? Thanks Dan

 

[Hugh McKinney]

Glenster, thanks, that's a big help, because the priority valve on my 450 just isn't cutting it with just the one factory pump. Is there a good source for a reservoir to go with it? Thanks again, Hugh