M rear end

[DeltaRed]

I am thinking about building a reversed M for a(F11) loader. Those things have always intrigued/impressed me.I have 4-5 M;SM;SMTA;400....,plus a couple of junkers,so I have plenty of 'parts'.Was thinking about useing 'Frank'(my MD/400 frankentractor). But he is a good runner and has the F11 that I will use for the project.Or maybe I should start with a 'clean slate' nonrunner and not butcher up 'Frank',should the project fail....?And I can continue to use 'Frank as a loader till the reversed tractor is done,then it is easy to swap the loader.My question: Can the ring gear be flipped,or am I going to try to find a W series transmission cover. I know a lot of Ms were reversed. Seems that I have heard that all you need to do is flip the ring gear.A friend has a reversed H in his 'collection. I know of another H(from my childhood). IIRC,that guy said the ring was flipped,but he had to put in a 3/4 (plywood) spacer between the cover and case. Plus he had to lengthen the shift forks as well.I havent been into the rear end of an M in YEARS,cant remember much.I need your input. Thanks,Steve. Next Question: would it be better to use a 400 rearend for the live pto to run the pump? Or a plain M and chain driveing the pump from the front of the crankshaft?Again,Thanks.

 

[redforlife]

Is your Frankenstein 400 MD, a gas start diesel as the MD's were?? And if so, are you sure you want to deal with that on a loader tractor when you possibly have gasser candidates the way it sounds?

I'd think a gas start diesel for a loader tractor would be inconvenient, (IF) only using for a few minutes at a time when in use. All day, no big deal of course. But for short little jobs, might be a bigger headache than what it's worth for it to be diesel.

As for reversing one, I've never done that.

 

[DeltaRed]

Frank the MD/400 has an MD rear end/trans,and a 400 gas front half. Married at the clutch houseing.MD had a bad engine,400 had a bad rear end/trans.It has 400 grill and hood 'mated' to the MD fuel tank. Had to cut the 400 hood off the fit the MD tank. He looks a bit odd.Similar to some of those Austrialian tractors. M style tank with a 560 grill/hood.Made one good tractor from two junkers.

 

[used red MN]

Delta here are some past posts on the reverse direction operation you are considering. It sounds like to do it ..properly.. using an M rear end you need a cotton picker top cover. When you pull the fill plug on an M you will see the ring gear. So imagining where that gear ends up when the differential is flipped you will understand that it will be interfering with where the shifter sets. So possibly the 3/4 plywood shim may be the leaky work around I suppose a couple good coats of poly would probably stop that. In the 2nd link the post by FastFarmall is interesting how he approached it. Then in that post my reply has a link to another old YT post that covers some info about doing this on a 560. That post has pictures of your reversed F12.
Old post 1

Old post 2

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

If you've ever driven a 560, you'll notice that the rear end "fill hole" is a mirror image of the shift tower mounting hole.

Can't remember if the 400 is like that too... and of course I'm not at the farm right now to look!

Anyway that hole is for the reverse shifting tower, so I'm pretty sure you can flip the ring gear on a 560, and maybe a 400 and 450 too, without needing a plywood spacer or a special top. You WILL need the special shift tower and possibly some other parts for the shift forks.

 

[D Slater]

When the differential is turned it's in the way of standard shift forks. Need the reverse operating cover and forks. Or you could put geared drops and axle housings from some cotton pickers, raise the front or use smaller rear wheels and leave ring gear the same. Some covers with two shift holes not drilled and tapped for mounting other shift forks.

 

[Janicholson]

Because you have a few M fence row tractors, maybe you could have a second top plasma cut so just the perimeter was remaining, machined off on top to make a seal with the original, then extend the shift forks that much. Jim

 

[fastfarmall]

I would stay away from the idea of a chains driven Hyd pump!!!

 

[gene bender]

JUST WHY my B has a #60 chain running the hy pump from the PTO and has worked like that for over 40yrs with no problems keep it oiled and a block of OAK for the tightener

 

[fastfarmall]

The danger factor !!! You maybe got a shield and kept in place, but will the next guy!

 

[Whiskey Bent]

A friend has a reversed M I think he will sell. He is in eastern South Dakota, if interested I can get you his number.