(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Massey Ferguson MF30

Yesterday's Tractor Forums
M

[email protected]

Member
Hello, I just picked up a MF 30 Industrial machine. Very similar to a MF165.

It's a bit of a basket case, previous owner hand the head off.

I've sent that out for valves and decking.

My question is while the head is off, can I do piston rings "in frame". I have the service manuals, but they don't seem to cover anything done on the engine "in frame".

The loader mount and what appears to be the hydro pump, are on the front of the oil pan.

Was just curious if anyone has done this.

Thank you in advance.
mvphoto54926.jpg

[/img]
 
If this is like my 65 you will need to remove the loader and front end because the base is part of the front axle mount. The base must come
off to get the pistons out through the top. If you are going that far I would replace the pistons, rings, sleeves. and rod and main bearings.
This is no small job. The good news is that a complete in frame rebuild kit is not that expensive. $500 to $600. How do you know the head is
the only problem? I wouldn't start dumping money into the head until I had the engine apart to see what else might be wrong. IMO
 
(quoted from post at 18:58:39 05/15/20)
This is no small job. The good news is that a complete in frame rebuild kit is not that expensive. $500 to $600. How do you know the head is
the only problem? I wouldn't start dumping money into the head until I had the engine apart to see what else might be wrong. IMO
Click to expand...

That is the problem, I don't know what all is wrong with it. I bought it as a non running tractor, I know from investigation it ran in 2015, but it smoked. (seller I got it from printed the CL ad, from when he bought it in 2015).

The seller I bought it from representing it as have low compression due to rusty valves and seats, so he pulled the head. He lost interest in the project and dumped it off to me.

My visual inspection of the cylinder walls, cam, cam followers and any other "wear" surface show very little wear at all.

Areas of concern are things that would cause low compression and smoke. Valves and rings come to mind. A injector will cause smoke, but in my limited experience, not a loss of compression.
 
Mikeshaw do you have a hydraulic power pack that you can hook up to the backhoe? You will likely need the backhoe off of the loader frame before attempting to split the tractor. With my MF40 industrial, the service manual had instructions on how to split the front axle from the tractor with the loader installed. The loader is left as a complete assembly and left bolted to the front axle support, the loader frame rails are unbolted from the rear axle and lowered onto axle stands. A floor jack is put under the engine and after unbolting the engine from the front axle everything from the engine back is rolled back so you don t have to work around the loader. If you find you need to split the engine from the transmission for crankshaft work it will be completely accessible.
 
the front mounted hydraulic pump runs the loader and backhoe. power steering runs off the tractor itself. your loader I think is a 32 or 34, the backhoe is a 54 . you can go on line and down load the manual.
 
If the starter will spin the engine over you could do that to lower the backhoe boom, and lower the stabilizers, you can put some wood blocks under the main backhoe frame just for added insurance. You can then support the front end loader frame on the bottom by where the loader cylinders are. Then you can curl the front bucket back, raise the loader all the way, and support it (a gantry crane is nice to have for that a long with some safety chains to go from the loader arms to the gantry crane). Then you can remove the front axle support, and front pump then move it away to get the oil pan off. Removing the backhoe from the tractor is a lot bigger job than supporting everything. Putting the backhoe back on can be even more difficult than removing.

It's just a flat out pain to remove, and re-install the backhoe from the tractor, don't ask how I know!! (My Ford 4500 TLB project) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSLHaHsdawM
 
(quoted from post at 20:47:03 05/17/20) the front mounted hydraulic pump runs the loader and backhoe. power steering runs off the tractor itself. your loader I think is a 32 or 34, the backhoe is a 54 . you can go on line and down load the manual.
Click to expand...

You are correct, the loader is a 34 and the backhoe is a 54.

The previous owner had purchased the manuals, they were included with the sale of the tractor.

Three total, an operators manual, and two shop manuals. One shop manual for the tractor and a second that covers the loader and backhoe.
 
(quoted from post at 00:05:02 05/18/20) If the starter will spin the engine over you could do that to lower the backhoe boom, and lower the stabilizers, you can put some wood blocks under the main backhoe frame just for added insurance. You can then support the front end loader frame on the bottom by where the loader cylinders are. Then you can curl the front bucket back, raise the loader all the way, and support it (a gantry crane is nice to have for that a long with some safety chains to go from the loader arms to the gantry crane). Then you can remove the front axle support, and front pump then move it away to get the oil pan off. Removing the backhoe from the tractor is a lot bigger job than supporting everything. Putting the backhoe back on can be even more difficult than removing.

It's just a flat out pain to remove, and re-install the backhoe from the tractor, don't ask how I know!! (My Ford 4500 TLB project) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSLHaHsdawM
Click to expand...

The starter and battery have been recently replaced. I have not tried to use the starter, but I did verify the engine isn't froze up.

I was not aware the implements could be operated that way, but I will definitely be trying that. Thank you.

And thank all of you for your replies. This should be a fun project.

Here is a video I found of a gentleman removing the loader and backhoe. I unfortunately do not have another tractor to help, like he does. Hopefully my engine hoist and, bottle jacks and numerous chain falls can get the job done. Time will tell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhndK9WC0HA
 
Good idea from ptfarmer re using the starter to spool the front pump just watch it s temperature. My MF52 and before that a case backhoe on a MF40 were pretty easy to remove and install but I had quick connects on the hydraulic lines. The bucket and stabilizers form 3 points on the ground and you adjust to unload the connecting pins to the upper links then to the sill plates pull the tractor forward and disconnect the hydraulic hoses i reroute the power beyond hose back to the loader reservoir. With your MF54 you have to loosen the two lower sill plates to upper link tension rods so it depends on how much rust or the power of your impact wrench :) I can remove or install my MF52 in half an hour but I have a running engine. Your TLB looks worth the effort!
 
(quoted from post at 06:23:29 05/18/20) Good idea from ptfarmer re using the starter to spool the front pump just watch it s temperature. My MF52 and before that a case backhoe on a MF40 were pretty easy to remove and install but I had quick connects on the hydraulic lines. The bucket and stabilizers form 3 points on the ground and you adjust to unload the connecting pins to the upper links then to the sill plates pull the tractor forward and disconnect the hydraulic hoses i reroute the power beyond hose back to the loader reservoir. With your MF54 you have to loosen the two lower sill plates to upper link tension rods so it depends on how much rust or the power of your impact wrench :) I can remove or install my MF52 in half an hour but I have a running engine. Your TLB looks worth the effort!
Click to expand...

Thank you, this unit has a cat II three point and PTO behind the backhoe, it already has quick disconnects on the large hydraulic lines that run the backhoe. For that reason I believe it is a good candidate for saving.
 
(quoted from post at 07:57:33 05/18/20)
(quoted from post at 06:23:29 05/18/20) Good idea from ptfarmer re using the starter to spool the front pump just watch it s temperature. My MF52 and before that a case backhoe on a MF40 were pretty easy to remove and install but I had quick connects on the hydraulic lines. The bucket and stabilizers form 3 points on the ground and you adjust to unload the connecting pins to the upper links then to the sill plates pull the tractor forward and disconnect the hydraulic hoses i reroute the power beyond hose back to the loader reservoir. With your MF54 you have to loosen the two lower sill plates to upper link tension rods so it depends on how much rust or the power of your impact wrench :) I can remove or install my MF52 in half an hour but I have a running engine. Your TLB looks worth the effort!
Click to expand...



Thank you, this unit has a cat II three point and PTO behind the backhoe, it already has quick disconnects on the large hydraulic lines that run the backhoe. For that reason I believe it is a good candidate for saving.
Click to expand...


The first time you use it, it will pay for itself, backhoe rentals aren't cheap! And yes keep checking the temp on the starter when you do that, best not be in a rush!
 
(quoted from post at 07:57:33 05/18/20)
Thank you, this unit has a cat II three point and PTO behind the backhoe, it already has quick disconnects on the large hydraulic lines that run the backhoe. For that reason I believe it is a good candidate for saving.
Click to expand...



That's a big plus, my Ford 4500 doesn't have the quick disconnects, plus the backhoe on my 4500 is much heavier than the MF backhoe.
 
No luck using the starter to operate the hydraulic system. Motor turned over fine, none of the implements would move. We did manage to get the backhoe and loader off, just did it manually.

I guess that may indicate a problem with the hydro system? First things first, lets focus on getting it running.

Tractor is in my shop now, Today I will begun taking the front end off.
 
Mikeshaw you are moving right along on this. Weird that nothing moved while the engine was spooling. Did you also try the loader controls? Did the previous owner take the seat bucket off the flip and turn seat kit?
 
(quoted from post at 12:25:39 05/22/20) Mikeshaw you are moving right along on this. Weird that nothing moved while the engine was spooling. Did you also try the loader controls? Did the previous owner take the seat bucket off the flip and turn seat kit?
Click to expand...

No, I have the flip seat. I sent it out to be refurbished.

Unfortunately I was burning the candle at both ends, continued to work, when I knew I was too tired. I ended up breaking one of the new cylinder liners during installation. Now I'm stalled waiting on parts.
 
(quoted from post at 12:57:10 05/27/20)
(quoted from post at 12:25:39 05/22/20) Mikeshaw you are moving right along on this. Weird that nothing moved while the engine was spooling. Did you also try the loader controls? Did the previous owner take the seat bucket off the flip and turn seat kit?
Click to expand...

No, I have the flip seat. I sent it out to be refurbished.

Unfortunately I was burning the candle at both ends, continued to work, when I knew I was too tired. I ended up breaking one of the new cylinder liners during installation. Now I'm stalled waiting on parts.
Click to expand...



I think everyone who has rebuilt a engine with sleeves has broken a new sleeve while putting it in at least once!!
 
I have made some progress. Total number of broken cylinder liners was two. That was obviously frustrating, but I managed to push through and complete the rebuild of the Perkins.

Here are a few pictures taking along the way.
mvphoto55862.jpg


mvphoto55863.jpg
 

And here is a video of her first start up. 55PSI of oil pressure, minimal smoke, it seems to run well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT_1aO-PO3Y
 

Well, YouTube links don't seem to work? Sorry about that.

Now on to the rest of the tractor. The "instant reverse" transmission seems to not be working correctly? I have to use my hand to force the pedals to choose forward or reverse. The accelerator function seems to work fine.

Even after using my hand, there are times when the tractor seems to not want to move. No real rhythm or reason, it acts like the brakes are on, then the next second it moves fine.

I'm curious if that selector switch gets caught between forward and reverse?
mvphoto55874.jpg
 

My next question maybe someone could shed some light on is the front power take off for the loader and backhoe hydraulics.

I left that pump off, but the PTO shaft is making a noise, not a good one. Is there a bearing in the the front axle, that supports that shaft? The shop manual is no help.


mvphoto55875.jpg
 

I have a leak on the CAV pump, where the throttle shaft passes through the top cover. Bungy Bear on YouTube says the cover can be resealed without removing the pump. I order the seal kit he recommends.
mvphoto55876.jpg
 

Wiring on this is a mess. Someone upgraded it to an alternator at some point but the mount they made had the pulleys misaligned by the width of a pulley.

I installed the same mini alternator I used on my Cub Cadet 1772.

The guts of the air breather are long gone, so I sourced a pleated paper unit from an automotive application. I have to fabricate a end cap for that.

After those issues are resolved, I'll install the loader and backhoe and work through those.

Any input is appreciated.
 
(quoted from post at 15:20:04 06/03/20)
My next question maybe someone could shed some light on is the front power take off for the loader and backhoe hydraulics.

I left that pump off, but the PTO shaft is making a noise, not a good one. Is there a bearing in the the front axle, that supports that shaft? The shop manual is no help.

Mikeshaw, there is no bearing. The shaft is LH threaded into an adapter plate which is bolted through rubber bushings to the front crank pulley. If the rubber bushings are weak or gone, the shaft could be wobbling around in the axle pivot pin bore
Click to expand...
 
(quoted from post at 15:16:32)

Now on to the rest of the tractor. The "instant reverse" transmission seems to not be working correctly? I have to use my hand to force the pedals to choose forward or reverse. The accelerator function seems to work

Mikeshaw, this is usually related to the springs, linkage wear and bearing friction of the pedal assembly to the actuator valve. With the engine off, hopefully you can see where the missing motion is coming from. Most of the pivots are needle roller bearings.
This is not the answer for your intermittent locked up transmission question
Click to expand...
 
Mikeshaw I watched your video engine sounds great, good job on the rebuild, dry ice or a driver having full 360 degree contact on the sleeve might have helped avoid the sleeve breakage. If you test the loader hydraulics without the backhoe on make sure the disconnected backhoe power beyond line does not cause dead heading of the pump.
 
(quoted from post at 07:20:04 06/03/20)
My next question maybe someone could shed some light on is the front power take off for the loader and backhoe hydraulics.

I left that pump off, but the PTO shaft is making a noise, not a good one. Is there a bearing in the the front axle, that supports that shaft? The shop manual is no help.


mvphoto55875.jpg
Click to expand...



There is no bearing in the front axle to support the pto shaft. so it's either the bushings Number 2 and 3 in the picture), and or the pin (number 9) that the front axle pivots on is probably (usually) worn out.
mvphoto55924.jpg
 
Mikeshaw, I erred when I said the pump shaft went through the axle pivot pin sorry (it does on my MF40) Thank you PTfarmer for showing the axle carrier drawing. But I dont think the axle pivot and its bearings would likely cause noise from the pump shaft when the engine is running. I still think it is more likely that this shaft is now cantilevered off of the rubber mounted adapter plate, normally the pump holds the splined end on center. You can check by seeing if you can wobble the end around by hand
 
(quoted from post at 15:31:40 06/04/20) You may need the adaptor.
mvphoto55943.jpg
Click to expand...

Thank you

I believe I have all of those pieces. I was just curious if there was a bearing that supported the PTO shaft, between the crank pulley and the front hydro pump.
 
Yesterday I removed the power steering cylinder to have it resealed it is leaking like the Exon Valdez.

During the removal I noticed what appear to be some "bush" repairs on the main steering arm. I ordered what I believe are the correct replacement parts, but they will not arrive until next week.

Installing the new parts may be a challenge, the way they did this, the steering shaft is now basically welded in the tractor. I'll ave to cut it out.

What I will never understand is, if I can find and purchace the correct parts, then why didn't the person who spent so much time welding on this? Maddening.
mvphoto56052.jpg


mvphoto56053.jpg


mvphoto56054.jpg
 
Also on yesterday's "to do" list was change the fluid in the transmission / hydraulics. This has the "instant reverse" transmission. I found what I believe are the two drain plugs shown in the manual and proceeded to drain approximately (8) gallons of fluid out. My concern is that the manual says it holds (11) gallons.

It was full on the side dip stick prior to draining, so I'm not sure hat I'm missing there.

There is what appears to be an in line filter housing between the bell housing and the front cooler. I assume there is a filter of some sort inside of it/ Again the shop manuals are lacking in this area.

The "filter housing" will not unscrew. I left it over night with penetrating oil. It may get heated witha a torch today.
mvphoto56056.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 11:01:41 06/03/20)
(quoted from post at 15:16:32)
Mikeshaw, this is usually related to the springs, linkage wear and bearing friction of the pedal assembly to the actuator valve. With the engine off, hopefully you can see where the missing motion is coming from. Most of the pivots are needle roller bearings.
This is not the answer for your intermittent locked up transmission question
Click to expand...

Thank you.

I replaced the main spring with one that has more tension, in an attempt to get the pedal assembly to "rotate" to the side, before it begins to move down.

The linkage between the pedal assembly and the transmission bell housing is very short, but it does have excessive play in it.

I've ordered some small ball / socket style joints ( like the ones used for automotive carburetor linkages) and will attempt to fabricate a new linkage.

The shaft going into the bell housing has a fair bit of slop as well.

It may need to be serviced. I wonder if it can be done externally, or if I have to split the tractor.

The issue I was having with it feeling like it was "locked up" or "brakes stuck on", may have been related to the fact that the rear differential was stuck in the "posi traction" mode?

The handle that operates that function was corroded and non operational. Once I freed that up and got the rear diff to an "open" style operation, it seems to be acting as I would expect.

(if any of that makes sense, LOL)
Click to expand...
 
I also tried to replace the power steering fluid filter, but mine apparently is not equipped with one. So I cleaned it up and put it back together.


mvphoto56268.jpg
 
The parts arrived for the new "instant reverse" pedal. Hopefully this will solve the problem. The arm going through the transmission case still has a bit up slop, but there isn't any in the new linkage.
mvphoto56269.jpg
 
I installed all new radiator hoses, shifter boots and steering wheel.

The engine had about (1) hour of run time on it since the in frame, so I drained the oil into a clean bucket then ran it through a strainer. It looked fine with just a few bits of old gasket materials in it. I cut the oil filter open, same story there.

Engine now has fresh oil and filter.

Power steering cylinder is out for new seals.

Waiting on the new steering arms / post and the kit to re seal the CAV pump.

Once those are in I can move onto the loader and backhoe.
 

Were you able to correct the sloppy forward/reverse pedals? I'm looking at buying one that has the same problem. I saw the picture of the part you bought for it...Did that help?
 

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to do a post like this. I find these sorts of threads really helpful and the pictures are always super useful to see. I get to live vicariously through your project while figuring out how to do my own....

I would love to figure out a way to get the loader and frame off of my machine (MF20) to make it easier to service some of the stuff on the engine that has been neglected.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Yesterday's Tractor Forums
Buy Tractor Parts Here Buy Tractor Manuals Here

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2025 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top