MF 35 + 65 alternator upgrade

[Boss Hog]

I have both an MF35 + MF65. (Gas engines) I'm tired of fighting the charging systems to try to keep them charging consistently. I'm thinking about upgrading them both to alternators.

They have a single wire alternator for sale at this website:

Massey Ferguson 65 Alternator with Tach Drive - ADR0382

Massey Ferguson 65 Alternator with Tach Drive for sale, ADR0382. This is a 12 volt 63 amp alternator. It is internally regulated and comes with fan and pulley. This alternator can be used to replace original generator. Additional brackets and hardware may be needed. Tach drive is appropriate...

www.yesterdaystractors.com

The description says "Use part number ADR9209 to make this a single wire self exciting alternator (not included)." But I don't see that item for sale on the website.

It also says that additional brackets may be needed. But no mention of a kit that's made for this purpose.


A search didn't turn up a whole lot of useful information. I don't know what needs to happen with the wiring and voltage regulator. I'm hoping to find more information or a place to start looking.

Can any of you point me in the right direction?

 

[Ericp351]

If your system is working, and bat fair to good, the gen system works. Assuming you want Delco (10?) clone alt- you will not use your volt reg. as the alt has one inside. Better quality is a simple used or rebuilt GM unit. ONLY 3 wires, and 2 basically connect. Will outlast Chinia unit. Probably cheaper. If you insist on change over- should not be hard to fabricate mounts. Note- your gauge is lower capacity then modern alt.

 

[Jim.ME]

ADR9209 is just an alternator plug to go on the spade terminals. It has a wire to go to the alternator battery terminal and a little jumper (has a diode I believe) that routes power from the #2 terminal to the #1 terminal to provide excitation power all the time, making a one wire alternator out of a three wire one.

YT's part number for it is 178026. Here is a link.

ADR9209 YT # 178026

 

[Boss Hog]

I still have no clue where to start.

What happens to the wires that go to the voltage regulator?

There are 2 wires to the generator. Which one of them goes to a single wire alternator? And what happens to the other one?

 

[Ericp351]

I assume you mean F- Field. You probably, if you insist on the retrofit, not use it. Remember to add fuse links!

 

[Jim.ME]

I still have no clue where to start.

What happens to the wires that go to the voltage regulator?

There are 2 wires to the generator. Which one of them goes to a single wire alternator? And what happens to the other one?

I would remove the generator and voltage regulator along with the wires connected to them. If there is a wire from the regulator used to power the lights or ignition switch you will need to move that one to the load side of the ammeter. Run a 10-gauge wire from the alternator output terminal to the load side of the ammeter. If you use a one-wire alternator that will be the only wire you need. If you use a 3-wire alternator you need that wire plus a short jumper from the #2 spade terminal to the alternator's battery post. To excite the alternator, you would need a wire from a switched power source to the #1 spade terminal. The switched wire will need a diode, incandescent indicator light or a resistor in it to prevent back feed (if you have a gas engine). If you have a MF diesel you can use the oil pressure switch to control the excitation and it will not need a diode, incandescent indicator light or a resistor in it.

Do you have the Operator's Manuals for your tractors? They should have the wiring diagrams you can use for reference as to where different wires go. Below is a link to one of several articles this site has on making such conversions which you might want to review. This one is for a Farmall, but the basics are the same. Do a bit more research and you will find many articles on making a conversion.

With any alternator you want to be sure the pulley is as small a diameter as available (about 2-1/2 to 2-3/4 in diameter) and that the width of the pulley matches the OEM fan belt width. Running a narrower belt results in increased wear to the pulleys of the tractor and slipping.

Bob Melville 6-12 conversion

 

[stevieb49829]

I have both an MF35 + MF65. (Gas engines) I'm tired of fighting the charging systems to try to keep them charging consistently. I'm thinking about upgrading them both to alternators.

They have a single wire alternator for sale at this website:

Massey Ferguson 65 Alternator with Tach Drive - ADR0382

Massey Ferguson 65 Alternator with Tach Drive for sale, ADR0382. This is a 12 volt 63 amp alternator. It is internally regulated and comes with fan and pulley. This alternator can be used to replace original generator. Additional brackets and hardware may be needed. Tach drive is appropriate...

www.yesterdaystractors.com

The description says "Use part number ADR9209 to make this a single wire self exciting alternator (not included)." But I don't see that item for sale on the website.

It also says that additional brackets may be needed. But no mention of a kit that's made for this purpose.


A search didn't turn up a whole lot of useful information. I don't know what needs to happen with the wiring and voltage regulator. I'm hoping to find more information or a place to start looking.

Can any of you point me in the right direction?

Just to make this abundantly clear: You are about to replace a generator AND it's voltage regulator with an internally regulated alternator. Like Jim said, its best to remove both, and their interconnecting wiring. You may be able to us your wiring from your removed generator, or regulator as the output wire from your new alternator, IF it is at least 10 gauge, and it goes to the right place in your wiring sytem. Here's a very simplified wiring diagram for a one wire AC Delco alternator (you can ignore the Farmall label):

A lot of us prefer the 3 wire Delco, for various reasons, and they are not that different to wire.
Keep asking questions and we'll get you there. Steve

 

[stevieb49829]

Mounting Brackets. You may be able to modify your generator bracket to mount the alternator. The tricky part is two fold: Use a pulley that is the same width as your generator pulley so the belt fits. Mount the alternator so the belt runs in the same plane as all the pulleys. Sometimes spacers and washers will accomplish this. You may have to weld up a new mount, or new tabs on your original mount. If you don't have a welder, go find a friend with one. steve

 

[Boss Hog]

Thanks to all of you who responded.

I was hoping that someone had written up a step-by-step guide for this. But it doesn't look that way.

I had another problem crop up that I'm focusing on, so this is going to get set aside for a while. Once I get started on this I'll probably be back with more questions.

 

[Jim.ME]

Thanks to all of you who responded.

I was hoping that someone had written up a step-by-step guide for this. But it doesn't look that way.

I had another problem crop up that I'm focusing on, so this is going to get set aside for a while. Once I get started on this I'll probably be back with more questions.

The Bob Melville document I linked has the steps, you may just need to modify things slightly to match your tractor. I don't believe you are going to find a document for either your 35 or 65 that tells you exactly how to build the brackets (people generally have their own ways based on their skill level and tooling available) or tell you every bolt and wire to touch, or colors to use. Over the years the wiring on a 35 or 65 someone else has may be different than yours due to modifications owners have done over the years. I always just modified the generator brackets and ran new wires for the alternators (so I am sure of what is there end to end of the wires).

The basic steps are here.

Remove the old generator, regulator, and wiring.

Have an alternator with correct size pulley (proper belt width and small diameter).

Mount the new alternator, align, and install the belt. Mounting will depend on your choice of alternator as well as if you choose to modify the existing generator mounting or build/buy new mounting.

Wire the new alternator (this is based on the alternator you chose to use the smaller Hitachi alternators some chose, wire a bit different than the Delco 10SI 1 or 3 wire types). There are a number of drawings, like the one stevieb49829 posted for you to guide you.

If you are going to hold off a bit on doing this, keep searching, you might find a document closer to your liking. There might be something on the North American Ferguson Enthusiasts website. The 35 and 65 would be closely related to the last of the Fergusons. The info is around, you may have to gather the fine details you are looking for in bits and pieces from multiple sources.

 

[rickmasseyferguson]

I would remove the generator and voltage regulator along with the wires connected to them. If there is a wire from the regulator used to power the lights or ignition switch you will need to move that one to the load side of the ammeter. Run a 10-gauge wire from the alternator output terminal to the load side of the ammeter. If you use a one-wire alternator that will be the only wire you need. If you use a 3-wire alternator you need that wire plus a short jumper from the #2 spade terminal to the alternator's battery post. To excite the alternator, you would need a wire from a switched power source to the #1 spade terminal. The switched wire will need a diode, incandescent indicator light or a resistor in it to prevent back feed (if you have a gas engine). If you have a MF diesel you can use the oil pressure switch to control the excitation and it will not need a diode, incandescent indicator light or a resistor in it.

Do you have the Operator's Manuals for your tractors? They should have the wiring diagrams you can use for reference as to where different wires go. Below is a link to one of several articles this site has on making such conversions which you might want to review. This one is for a Farmall, but the basics are the same. Do a bit more research and you will find many articles on making a conversion.

With any alternator you want to be sure the pulley is as small a diameter as available (about 2-1/2 to 2-3/4 in diameter) and that the width of the pulley matches the OEM fan belt width. Running a narrower belt results in increased wear to the pulleys of the tractor and slipping.

Bob Melville 6-12 conversion

Hi Jim sorry to bardge in this thread but I have a massey ferguson 165 deisel tractor. I think it's a 1972 (9A 139627). It had a generator I think and an external regulator. Also has switch underneath oil pressure gauge. The wiring has been worked on by the previous owners. It is in complete shambles. The previous owner said just to put the battery in and disconnect the wiring after starting. I need to get the wiring sorted out.

I have a 3 wire alternator and I want to use that. See attached wiring diagram that I came up with. Will that work and if it would what wire should goto the starter solenoid bolt labeled "R". Originally wire went into the external regulator.

Also if I remove the dummy light and use the oil pressure switch to excite the alternator how do I wire it. I see one wire coming from the positive side of the amp/ meter gauge to the oil pressure switch and another wire coming from the external regulator?

 

[Boss Hog]

Thought I'd post an update.

Fabricating an alternator bracket wasn't too difficult. I cut slotted holes in it so I could adjust the position a little to line up the pulley with the other pulleys.

It took 2 tries to find the correct belt length.

I Re-wired it based on the wiring diagram that stevieb49829 posted. I bought some 10ga wire to use.

After hooking it up, it didn't work. I have about 12 volts at the terminal on the alternator - Same as the battery.

My brother is a mechanic. He swears I need the adapter they recommend with the alternator. I don't see any purpose in it.

I took the alternator off and took it to a NAPA store. They tested it and said it was defective. So I got a return authorization, and sent it back.

I assume they'll replace it. I asked if they would, but haven't gotten a response yet.

 

[John Deere D]

I have both an MF35 + MF65. (Gas engines) I'm tired of fighting the charging systems to try to keep them charging consistently. I'm thinking about upgrading them both to alternators.

They have a single wire alternator for sale at this website:

Massey Ferguson 65 Alternator with Tach Drive - ADR0382

Massey Ferguson 65 Alternator with Tach Drive for sale, ADR0382. This is a 12 volt 63 amp alternator. It is internally regulated and comes with fan and pulley. This alternator can be used to replace original generator. Additional brackets and hardware may be needed. Tach drive is appropriate...

www.yesterdaystractors.com

The description says "Use part number ADR9209 to make this a single wire self exciting alternator (not included)." But I don't see that item for sale on the website.

It also says that additional brackets may be needed. But no mention of a kit that's made for this purpose.


A search didn't turn up a whole lot of useful information. I don't know what needs to happen with the wiring and voltage regulator. I'm hoping to find more information or a place to start looking.

Can any of you point me in the right direction?

I removed all of the charging circuit (wires and components ) on my Massey Ferguson MF 35 X 3 cylinder Diesel, Installed a one wire Alternator. The system works perfect. If I was to share any fabricating info,be sure to MOUNT the ALTERNATOR high on the ENGINE block.The front axle pivots,(vertical movement when crossing or dropping into fresh ploughed soil )you do NOT what to see the axle come in contact with the Alternator.
Bob...

 

[pomester]

Thought I'd post an update.

Fabricating an alternator bracket wasn't too difficult. I cut slotted holes in it so I could adjust the position a little to line up the pulley with the other pulleys.

It took 2 tries to find the correct belt length.

I Re-wired it based on the wiring diagram that stevieb49829 posted. I bought some 10ga wire to use.

After hooking it up, it didn't work. I have about 12 volts at the terminal on the alternator - Same as the battery.

My brother is a mechanic. He swears I need the adapter they recommend with the alternator. I don't see any purpose in it.

I took the alternator off and took it to a NAPA store. They tested it and said it was defective. So I got a return authorization, and sent it back.

I assume they'll replace it. I asked if they would, but haven't gotten a response yet.

Earlier this year I purchased a new alternator with a tachometer drive to replace a cobbled installation/wired/no tach associated with an earlier model Ferguson. Correct pulley size, etc. I cleaned up the installation and wiring.

No charging.

I took it back to the shop from whence it came and they tested (it would charge) and then disassemble and installed a lower 'cut in'. Alternator needs a certain RPM to excite and charge and this is adjustable to a degree with this internal component. My new wiring and installation was fine, the alternator just wasn't achieving the speed necessary to excite and charge. Works fine (great actually) now.

Something to be aware of when NAPA gets you a new, good, alternator and it still won't charge....

 

[Jim.ME]

Earlier this year I purchased a new alternator with a tachometer drive to replace a cobbled installation/wired/no tach associated with an earlier model Ferguson. Correct pulley size, etc. I cleaned up the installation and wiring.

No charging.

I took it back to the shop from whence it came and they tested (it would charge) and then disassemble and installed a lower 'cut in'. Alternator needs a certain RPM to excite and charge and this is adjustable to a degree with this internal component. My new wiring and installation was fine, the alternator just wasn't achieving the speed necessary to excite and charge. Works fine (great actually) now.

Something to be aware of when NAPA gets you a new, good, alternator and it still won't charge....

The lower cut-in regulators are good.

Many overlook the alternator pulley during a conversion. What did you have on it for a pulley? I always replace the standard over-the-counter pulley, which is on the alternators for automobile use, with a small diameter pulley of the right width for the tractor belt. The small diameter increases the alternator rpms. Using the larger diameter pulley from the old generator, on an alternator. slows the rpms. Using a smaller belt to fit the over-the-counter pulley on the alternator often lets the narrow belt bottom in the tractor pulleys which leads to slipping of the belt and poor charging.

 

[pomester]

The pulley is original diameter so the tachometer reads correctly and is of the correct width to use the 5L original width belt. The belt is not of original length since the fabricated mount plus the larger diameter of the alternator changes the geometry.

I talked to the shop when I purchased the alternator and they told me it would have the low cut-in feature. I am a bit disappointed that it had to be addressed inconveniently later. I am pleased they fixed it while I waited and didn't charge me. The alternator was rather expensive.

 

[miangus]

A nice feature of the MF diesels is there is an oil pressure operated switch that turns on the fuel Guage and charging circuit. You can use a conventional two wire alternator. Hook the sensing wire to the large output terminal on the alternator using one of those conversion plugs. Connect the large terminal on the alternator to the battery. Hook the remaining wire from the plug to the circuit that is connected to the oil pressure switch, and you are good to go.

 

[Jim.ME]

Battery output stud, excitation spade, sensing spade = 3-wire alternator

Battery output stud, no wires on either spade terminal = 1-wire alternator

 

[Boss Hog]

Something to be aware of when NAPA gets you a new, good, alternator and it still won't charge....

The alternator came from this website. I just took it to NAPA for testing when it didn't work.

 

[Boss Hog]

I finally got it working.

I ordered the alternator from this website. Made a new mount for it. When I got it installed, it didn't work.

I took it off and took it to a NAPA store for testing. They said it didn't work. So I contacted the store through the website. They sent me a return label via email. I replied to the email, asking if they'd replace the alternator. I never got a response. (The email was from a staff member - Not one of those "no reply" email addresses)

I got it sent off. Another person sent me an email saying that they had received the return part. I replied to that email, asking if they would send me another alternator. Again, no response.

I tried calling their 800 number. Long hold time. I eventually left a message asking if they would call me back. In the message I told them my name and what I wanted.

Someone eventually called me back. I asked if she had listened to the message I left. She said "We don't listen to those".

So I explained what I wanted. She said they don't do replacement parts - You have to order a new one. It would have been helpful to know that up front.

So I did order a new one. Only I ordered it from Zoro.com. They have better customer service and a lower price.


The battery was a little low when I got the alternator on. When the engine started the ammeter went up to +30 amps. So I'm thinking I might oughta upgrade the wiring to something like 10ga. Maybe add a fuse in there somewhere.

Thanks to all of you who made helpful posts.