MF 35 - Starter Issues

[mirthfuldragon]

I have a 1960 (per model number) Massey 35 I purchased several months ago; the story I got is that it was pulled from a tree row, got running, and then I bought it running. Alternator is a GM-style 1 wire; battery is 12v, negative ground. I replaced all the gauges and wiring. From what I can find, it should have always been a 12v negative ground system.

The starter was giving me fits and wanted to be tapped with a hammer to spin over. I took it to a well-regarded local alternator/starter shop, and $90 later, it was working fine. I started it <20 times, did some work with it, and now it's back up to its old tricks, and won't spin over at all, taps or no taps. I bench-tested it with an old-school battery charger and no joy - no spin, nothing.

The starter itself has the long case of the 6v starter, 181541M91 per the manual. I believe it should be a 182454M91 12v starter.

Everything I've read says there's no issues running a 6v starter on 12v.

The shop said it was basically new inside, and looked fine, just that there was some corrosion on the brushes and it was sticking.

Am I missing anything here? "New" starter prices seem to run from $140 to $500+.

I'm going to take it back to the shop and see why they say, of course, but wondering if I shouldn't just buy a "new" 6v, since it will probably be cheaper (unfortunately) than rebuilding the current one. Or just buy a 12v.

 

[Bob N.Y.]

Get the proper 12 volt starter.

 

[John Deere D]

Gas Engine.........?
Delco Remy...1107226
You would have to contact suppliers and ask the Voltage specified...for a Delco Remy...1107226

Information from a Massy Ferguson Part Book...
Massey # 190 004 M91 crosses over to a Delco Remy...1107226

Bob..

 

[mirthfuldragon]

It's a gas Z-134 Continental.

How did you get the reference 190 004 M91? That's different from what's in the parts manual I have (from Jen Sales).

Took the 6v to the shop and will see what they find.

 

[Jim.ME]

Online Massey Ferguson parts book for the MF 35 may have more current part numbers than a reprint copy.

https://parts.agcocorp.com/en_US/ap...51093/l&c=00-00&name=TABLE OF CONTENT

 

[John Deere D]

Quote:
How did you get the reference 190 004 M91? That's different from what's in the parts manual I have (from Jen Sales).

I looked in my MF 35 Parts Book..

Pages 66/67 Titel. Starter (Gas)

Printed in the USA..1960

Bob..

 

[Jim.ME]

Just some info to look at.

In looking at the online parts books I find the 182454M91(12volt) and 181541M91 (6volt) starter listed for the TO-35. No 6-volt starter is listed for a MF 35. The 190004M91 shows as the service replacement for both 12 volt starters (Delco 1107654 and 1107226) used on MF 35s. Is there a Delco Remy tag or the number stamped into the housing of your starter?

It sounds like the Jen Sales parts book may have a mix up with the TO-35 starters.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

The book seems right - the title page is for "Ferguson 35", and the 12v starter matches the 182454M92 picture at https://parts.agcocorp.com/en_US/apbsearch?q=masseyferguson/651093/l&c=00-00&name=TABLE%20OF%20CONTENT - it's the same photo.

The long-case and likely 6v starter doesn't have any tags or p/n on it. Looking at everything, my guess is that it was replaced with the 6v starter when it was pulled from the tree row by the prior owner.

I'm going to see what the repair shop comes back with and go from there - probably buy a 12v starter as a back-up if I have any more issues.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Jim.ME]

Some additional things that may be in play here. What is the publication number of your parts book (If the reprinter included it)? Ferguson 35 parts book online is publication # 693063. The Massey Ferguson 35 parts book is publication number 651093, as in John Deere D's picture. Do you have a Massey Ferguson 35 or a Ferguson (TO) 35? The Ferguson 35 (last built in 1960 in believe) is the predecessor of the Massey Ferguson 35 (first built in 1960 I believe). The first MF35 serial number is shown on YT and Tractor Data serial number lists as 204181. Is your serial number lower or higher than that number.

As you say someone could have stuck a 6-volt starter on it. Or it was 6 volt and they left it when the generator was converted to an alternator. Some of the Ferguson 35s were originally 6-volt so if you actually have a Ferguson TO35 it may have started life as a 6-volt unit. The 182454M91 (or M92) was the 12-volt starter for the 12-volt Fergusons and MF35s. 190004M91 is shown as the service replacement in both online parts books.

Just some more info that may or may not help.

 

[garvas]

I own a 63 MF35 and reading your post is was wondering. You do know that there is a safety switch that will keep the starting from turning over. It is easy to over look when you first start running a Massey. The high/low shifter must be in neutral to start the motor. When I first got mine I would forget and really get upset that the tractor would not crank. Another trick to remember is that this tractor has a bad habit of getting stuck in reverse. Always make sure you apply a little downward pressure on the shifter to keep the shifting forks in the transmission from sliding too many gears in place thus sticking the shifter. Not hard to fix but easier to learn the habit. This is a great place to learn about your Massey. Enjoy.....

 

[mirthfuldragon]

The dash tag says MF35, model SGM 218137, which now that I think about it and double-check, means it's a '61 model.

I'm leaning more that someone just ordered what they thought was right and put in a 6v starter off of Amazon or eBay.

(quoted from post at 12:49:42 09/25/22) I own a 63 MF35 and reading your post is was wondering. You do know that there is a safety switch that will keep the starting from turning over. It is easy to over look when you first start running a Massey. The high/low shifter must be in neutral to start the motor. When I first got mine I would forget and really get upset that the tractor would not crank. Another trick to remember is that this tractor has a bad habit of getting stuck in reverse. Always make sure you apply a little downward pressure on the shifter to keep the shifting forks in the transmission from sliding too many gears in place thus sticking the shifter. Not hard to fix but easier to learn the habit. This is a great place to learn about your Massey. Enjoy.....

The NSS was the first thing I checked. I have a pretty strong automotive background, mostly from having junk cars well through college. And since it uses a relay solenoid, it's easy enough to jump the terminals to see if it spins the starter, and no joy. Then I pulled it and bench tested it with and old school battery charger (not the modern ones that read voltage, but the old ones that spark and boil batteries if you leave them on too long) and nothing there either.

I actually jammed the shifter early on and had to pull the steering gear to fix it, so lesson learned there. Have to be gentle when shifting the old girl.

This post was edited by mirthfuldragon on 10/03/2022 at 12:39 pm.