MF135 Diesel maybe engine stuck

[jeflon]

1970 MF135 has been sitting for few years. i hooked up the batter y. when i pressed the clutch, the clutch stayed in the depressed possition. i was able to put the gear in neutral, and move both gearshifts freely.
When i tried to start, the starter engaged, but the crank shaft never turned, no fan movement, etc. I am looking to find out what I should do as a very next step. thanks

 

[centash]

Put the tractor in high gear and try rocking it back and forth by hand on the rear
wheels. You should be able to see the fan move with moderate rocking. If it does,
keep trying with the starter... fuel shut off.... and rocking it until you can get
several full revoltions of the engine. Then open the fuel a nd try to start. If it
won't move with rocking, you will have to remove the injectors and put a lubricant
in the cylinders and keep trying. Note, this method will not work if the tractor
has multi power. As far as the clutch pedal goes...the release bearing may be stuck
on the shaft, ....is there an inspection plate or cover you can remove to have a
look in there?

Good luck.
Ben

 

[jeflon]

Thanks, that is helpful. What is meant by multi power?

Yes, there is a small plate next to the gear shift I can remove. What would I look for?

I have the manual but it’s a little overwhelming

 

[Dieseltech]

If tractor has the MP transmission there will be a shift lever on the dash panel on lower right side. If tractor is eight speed model [4 plus the Hi/Lo shift lever] it won't have MP. There's a cover plate under the transmission front that can be removed to look at the release sleeve/bearing assembly.

 

[Charles in Aus.]

Remove the starter , an easy job , then use a big screwdriver or small pry bar to gently lever the ring gear around . This gives you huge mechanical advantage and can free up a really stuck engine . Just be moderate and don't go nuts on the lever .

 

[jeflon]

Thanks. It’s not MP. I just got the new front tires on and will try rocking it tommorow. Found the plate and will look at it too.
I looked in the small inspection hole near the shifter and watched the gears change and it appears clean.
There was a hydraulic leak when it was parked so I have to locate the source and get fluid in it

 

[Dieseltech]

The "inspection hole" next to the shift levers is the trans/rear oil fill location, the oil level for the trans/rear is on the right side diff case cover plate.

 

[jeflon]

So I took off the clutch inspection plate and it was full of water. Looks like a lot of rust. Took some photos, sprayed it out, took some more. I didn’t have a way to jack it up and secure it so couldn’t look directly.
Any ideas what I’m looking at? Can I about splitting it up maybe and replacing?

 

[jeflon]

 

[centash]

The pictures are of the pressure plate.....and they do not look good. A split is certainly in order....as well as a new release bearing, clutch plate and most likely a pressure plate as well.....sorry.

Ben

 

[rustred]

holy man do you have problems there. how did all that water get in there. definitly needs a slit , but better make sure the engine is ok first other wise that tractor is scrap iron.

 

[ptfarmer]

I haven't never seen one that looked that bad! You might be able to free it up, but I don't think it would last long if you could get it un-stuck. If it were me I'd just split the tractor, and put a new clutch in it!!!

 

[ptfarmer]

I'd make sure the engine, or transmission isn't stuck. I'd suggest draining the engine oil, and transmission fluid to see if there is any water in them before doing anything!

 

[jeflon]

Yea I’m not sure how the water got in. It sat for maybe 5 years. I drive it before that. There was an ongoing hydraulic leak when it was used.
The gear compartment looks pristine.
Problem is I need to unlock the clutch from neutral to rock the tractor and try to turn the engine. Or is there a better way to test the engine?

 

[jeflon]

I’m definitely leaning the way of whole new clutch. I’m
wondering how water got in. It’s been in a slope with the
clutch side downhill. Maybe at the brake lever. I don’t know
how any would get in the engine itself

 

[jeflon]

I am making a guess that the water got in prior to me putting a tarp over it last year. Probably through the gear shifts. the rubber boots are in bad shape.
I looked down into the opening for transmission oil and could see no rust at all. I went through all the gears and they were smooth and i watched them change. I think the transmission should be good.

 

[centash]

You could jack up one rear wheel and turn it slightly while trying to put it in gear....should slip in easily.

Ben

 

[jeflon]

Good idea. But the gears shift fine. I assume if the clutch is stuck in the lower position, the friction plate is not against the flywheel so it wouldn’t turn the engine. Or am I overthinking this?

 

[jeflon]

(quoted from post at 16:31:43 01/24/21) I'd make sure the engine, or transmission isn't stuck. I'd suggest draining the engine oil, and transmission fluid to see if there is any water in them before doing anything!

How do i know if i have a single or dual clutch? Looking at the parts book now.

 

[jeflon]

If I ordered this:
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Massey-Ferguson-135_Clutch-Kit-11-inch-Fine-Spline_12121420.html

It looks like everything i would need, or are there other things i need to consider once i have it open?

 

[jeflon]

If I ordered this:
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/...lutch-Kit-11-inch-Fine-Spline_12121420.html

It looks like everything i would need, or are there other things i need to consider once i have it open?

 

[centash]

The clutch plate is more than likely stuck to the engines flywheel. If it wasn't, you could turn the lifted up wheel with the trans in any gear.

Ben

 

[jeflon]

If it is stuck to the engine flywheel, will the flywheel need. Resurfacing? Or replacing?

So far I’m looking at this
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Massey-Ferguson-135_Clutch-Kit-11-inch-Fine-Spline_12121420.html%3Cbr
Untitled URL Link

 

[J.Wondergem]

I think it would be best if you pull it apart before ordering parts.

 

[centash]

Likely just resurfacing, but only an inspection would tell. You might be looking at a parts tractor if the engine is in similar condition. As others have said, don't order any parts until you go further into the tractor. Hopefully you can save it.

Ben

 

[jeflon]

It’s 4 hours away and I can only work in it weekends.
I can return the clutch if I abandon the project.
What should I look for in the engine? The oil dipstick showed black oil with no other discoloration..

I’m guessing if a resurfacing is needed I’ll need to remove and take to machine shop

 

[jeflon]

(quoted from post at 06:56:15 01/25/21) The clutch plate is more than likely stuck to the engines flywheel. If it wasn't, you could turn the lifted up wheel with the trans in any gear.

Ben

I think this is a good approach to try this weekend. If it's not stuck to the flywheel, the tire should turn freely. If it is stuck, turning the tire should turn the engine, correct? Ideally, I want to diagnose the engine before breaking it apart. If the clutch breaks free and it won't go out of neutral, someone on here suggested removing starter and gently prying the wheel sprockets.

The engine oil was solid black on the dipstick.

 

[jeflon]

Thinking about this even more, correct me if I am wrong, but if the clutch plate is stuck, then when I try to crank the engine, the starter would be essentially trying to turn the entire transmission, drive the back wheels, etc. The engine itself could be free.

All of the advice here is very helpful. Ive never touched a tractor. The manuals are good, but experienced input helps things make more sense.

 

[Phil Tibbetts]

If water got in the transmission it would be at the bottom and you would not see it looking in the top and there might not be any rust at
the top. Slowly loosen the drain plug part way and see if water or oil comes out. If only oil comes out you ae probably ok in the
transmission.

 

[John Deere D]

Pics from a MF Service Manual....
DUAL CLUTCH MF 35...50....65...& TO Tractors...


Bob.Owner operator MF 35 X 3 cylinder diesel Perkins...6 speed transmission......

 

[John Deere D]

The Disc that drives the Transmission in my MF 35 failed.....!!!!!!!!

Your clutch pack / assembly looks .??????????

Bob..

 

[ASEguy]

It looks like it might have been flooded. When I did my MF 20, I had several choices for clutch parts. I would pull it down and measure and count. I bought my clutch pieces from this site and they were very close to fitting like new. I would definitely get a parts manual to make sure on the parts.

 

[John Deere D]

Why all the moisture in the Clutch cavity.??????
Check Hyd pump cavity........

Bob..

 

[ditchwitch]

"If" the motor is not stuck and if you split the tractor you would be surprised what just sandblasting the flywheel and clutch parts will do. A new clutch and pressure plate would be less than 300 from YT don't know your tractor funds availability . Actually my 135 is apart now I am doing a clutch replacement. Got the parts from here at YT. I had everything apart cleaned up and was putting back together and broke a ear off the PTO plate like a dummy. So i ordered the whole clutch assy my engine clutch was good. What actually started all my to mess up was the throw out bearing froze up and actually wore the finger adjustment screws down. Stuff happens when you loan your tractor out

 

[jeflon]

(quoted from post at 19:45:13 01/26/21) "If" the motor is not stuck and if you split the tractor you would be surprised what just sandblasting the flywheel and clutch parts will do. A new clutch and pressure plate would be less than 300 from YT don't know your tractor funds availability . Actually my 135 is apart now I am doing a clutch replacement. Got the parts from here at YT. I had everything apart cleaned up and was putting back together and broke a ear off the PTO plate like a dummy. So i ordered the whole clutch assy my engine clutch was good. What actually started all my to mess up was the throw out bearing froze up and actually wore the finger adjustment screws down. Stuff happens when you loan your tractor out

I am going with replacing the clutch. The tractor is 4 hours away and I can only work at it on weekends. I got some contacts for local machine shops for flywheel resurfacing (small town). I have the new clutch assembly, drive disk with pilot and release bearing.
It's probably for the best. I'm not sure if I would have completely trusted the thing otherwise. I've seen so many references to tractors getting stuck in gear. Now I will know for certain what's going on inside.
What else should I be looking at while I have it split apart? I'm committed at this point.

 

[John Deere D]

Quote:
What else should I be looking at while I have it split apart? I'm committed at this point.

Remove Transmission cover as per service manual pic......

Fab a support, you shall be splitting the engine from the Trans, aft...
Inspect transmission as per pics...."Trans doesn't have to be removed from Diff assembly at this time"....
IF there is any chance at all the "OIL SEALS" have been allowing oil to pass from the TRANS, into the CLUTCH area...NOW is the time to replace "OIL SEALS" that are located within the "HOUSING of the Trans INPUT SHAFT".

Bob..

 

[John Deere D]

Seal installation tool.
Transmission inlet shaft oil seal..
6 speed Transmission...NO Multi Power....NO independent PTO
MF 35......
Tool, also used to install bushings in Transmission case as per pictures
Bob....

 

[John Deere D]

Info complied, when I totally replaced as per required parts MF 6 speed.....No Multi power ..No Independent PTO
3 cylinder Perkins Diesel....
Bob..

 

[jeflon]

(quoted from post at 13:19:37 01/27/21) Info complied, when I totally replaced as per required parts MF 6 speed.....No Multi power ..No Independent PTO
3 cylinder Perkins Diesel....
Bob..
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto73048.jpg">

Great info. What is the easiest way to tell if I have independant PTO? From just looking at it, since obviously, I cant test with the clutch.

 

[2tractors]

Didn't read all of post so maybe someone said you should wedge up the front bolster to keep engine from being able to spin.

 

[jeflon]

(quoted from post at 11:13:51 01/27/21) Seal installation tool.
Transmission inlet shaft oil seal..
6 speed Transmission...NO Multi Power....NO independent PTO
MF 35......
Tool, also used to install bushings in Transmission case as per pictures

Looks like you made your own seal/bushing install tool. I am limited for materials and fabrication/welding skills. If I bought this set, I should be able to use. Or is there a better suggestion?


https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200379083_200379083

 

[John Deere D]

Quote:
Looks like you made your own seal/bushing install tool. I am limited for materials and fabrication/welding skills. If I bought this set, I should be able to use.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200379083_200379083

YES:
I believe you could install the TWO SEALS as per required with the TOOL set you have posted the LINK to.

PLEASE NOT...
I'm not a TRAINED MF Technician, but am sure I could have installed the "TWO OIL SEALS" if I had the TOOL kit you posted the link to.

My late brother was a Master Machinist...I gave him my print... he turned the drivers out as per the print...
If you pay attention to the dimensions on my prints, you can verify the O/D of the installation SLUGS in the KIT.

Bob...