MF50 industrial control functions

[malightcommander]

Hi all,

Besides the topic that I recently opened about a strange noise coming from my Massey Ferguson MF50 industrial tractor, I would like to ask you all about some controls on my tractor that I don't really understand what they are used for.

For those who haven't seen the other topic: I own a MF50 industrial with loader and backhoe, built in 1971 and modified for the Swedish market (non standard cab and lights). It has the Perkins A4-212 diesel engine (running very nice) and the instant reverse transmission.

I have a question about 2 controls, for which I don't understand their function.

1) There is a lever that sticks out next to the steering wheel (on the right hand side), which sits in between the steering wheel and the hand gas lever (I am NOT talking about the hand gas!). It appears to be connected to the braking system, however the lever is completely stuck in 1 position.
Does anyone recognizes this and knows what it is used for (in relation to the brakes)?
The tractor also has 1 brake (foot) pedal (left hand side) and 1 lever for the hand brake (also left hand side).

2) On the right hand side of the transmission, there is a dipstick for the transmission oil. Just above the dipstick sits a sliding knob with an arrow pointing downwards, pointing in the direction of the dipstick. This knob can slide from left to right over a distance of about 10cm. What is its function?

I have pictures of everything, to make it more clear, however I am not allowed to place them here.

I hope that someone understands what I am talking about and can tell me a bit more about the function of these controls.

/Hugo

 

[Danielfire50]

I think you have to post a certain number
of times on the forum before you can put up
pictures. I have a MF50a and the controls
sound a lot different.
The knob by the dipstick could possibly be
the diff. lock.
As far as the sound you posted about
earlier I have no idea.

 

[malightcommander]

Thanks for your reply!

Great to hear that you have a MF50A. I have been wondering what the differences are between the MF50, the MF50A and the MF50B, do you happen to know that? Online, most info can be found about the MF50B and a lot of things seem to be very similar to my tractor.
Actually, there is a type plate inside my tractor that mentions the model as being MF50R, but that doesn't give me any results when looking for it online. It might be the name the Swedish importer gave it.
My serial number starts with MF50 however, so I assume that the tractor that I have is in fact an MF50.

The knob by the dipstick cannot be for the differential lock, there is a very big lever for that next to the seat. This knob above the dipstick is not located inside the cab, but rather underneath it (only accessible from underneath the tractor).

/Hugo

 

[malightcommander]

As far as the sound you posted about
earlier I have no idea.

No problem, I'm sure someone might recognize it eventually, or I'll figure it out sooner or later.

 

[malightcommander]

I will try again to post some pictures.

This is the little knob that sits right above the transmission dipstick. It has an arrow pointing downwards on it.

This is the lever that has something to do with the brake system. It is the yellow lever next to the steering wheel:

This post was edited by malightcommander on 05/27/2021 at 08:25 am.

 

[malightcommander]

Here are some overview photos of my tractor:

 

[Danielfire50]

Im stumped. It looks to have more features
than a 50a has. It does look a lot like a
50b.

 

[MF#1]

On a non-industrial tractor the little knob controls the DROP speed of the 3 point hitch. Yours is in the fast position. I have NO idea how that would affect the backhoe operation.

 

[MKinON]

It doesn't affect backhoe operation at all since the backhoe runs on the loader hydraulic system. Does your 3pt system even have lift arms in place under the backhoe. They're probably not there, but could be added if the backhoe is dismounted.

 

[MKinON]

Did you figure out what your noise during driving is? Sounds more like oil flow problem. Is the trans fluid full?
Perhaps it needs a trans oil and filter change. Any chance it's coming from the loader and the loader oil is low? Sounds
more like a pump starving for oil, or a partially stuck, or rapidly cycling valve. There's likely a dip stick in the
loader tank, right side frame if it's like the other loaders, under the breather cap. The oil level should probably be
about 1/2 way up the triangular tower that the RS loader arm attaches to. On my smaller MF 30 and 40 the loader full
level is 17-1/2 below the top of the tank at the breather/vent.

 

[malightcommander]

On a non-industrial tractor the little knob controls the DROP speed of the 3 point hitch. Yours is in the fast position.

Aha, that was exactly the sort of information that I was looking for! Thank you so much.

It doesn't affect backhoe operation at all since the backhoe runs on the loader hydraulic system. Does your 3pt system even have lift arms in place under the backhoe. They're probably not there, but could be added if the backhoe is dismounted.

Exactly, the backhoe is not connected to the 3pt system at all, but the lift arms are still present underneath the seat. Also the controls for the lift arms are present inside the cab and they are working too. (Next to the big yellow lever, which controls the diff lock.)

Anyone wants to guess what the lever on the steering wheel is for? It connects to a sort of splitter for the brake fluid lines.

You can see the other end here, underneath the dashboard:

I was thinking something to control left and right brake power (since it only has 1 brake pedal) or maybe something to control the total brake force? The lever is completely stuck at the moment, so I'll have to get it moving first to see if I can find out what it does. Seems to be quite unusual though.

/Hugo

 

[malightcommander]

Im stumped. It looks to have more features than a 50a has. It does look a lot like a 50b.

Very interesting to hear! Do you know about the differences between the 50A and 50B?

I don't think I have a 50B though. The 50B should have individual left and right brakes (mine has only 1) and I think it should also have 2 individual pedals for the instant reverse transmission (backwards and forwards), while mine has a sort of fork that goes 3 ways (tilt left for backwards, tilt right for forwards and center only speeds up the engine).

You can see it here:

Also, the serial number on the dashboard starts with MF50. Do you know if the MF50B's serial numbers also start with MF50?

N.B. The hour counter is not counting, so it has more hours on it... Will maybe try to fix that later.

/Hugo

 

[malightcommander]

Did you figure out what your noise during driving is? Sounds more like oil flow problem. Is the trans fluid full?
Perhaps it needs a trans oil and filter change. Any chance it's coming from the loader and the loader oil is low? Sounds
more like a pump starving for oil, or a partially stuck, or rapidly cycling valve. There's likely a dip stick in the
loader tank, right side frame if it's like the other loaders, under the breather cap. The oil level should probably be
about 1/2 way up the triangular tower that the RS loader arm attaches to. On my smaller MF 30 and 40 the loader full
level is 17-1/2 below the top of the tank at the breather/vent.

No, unfortunately I haven't figured it out yet.

I thought that opening separate topics for this would perhaps be better, but since we are discussing it here, it's maybe good to share the video here too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk1k0oTfW8c

The transmission fluid was not full (only just visible on the dipstick), so I changed that out last weekend. The oil that came out was really dark, but I could not see any major metal particles (sifted through the oil with a magnet). I took about 16-17 litres out. Filled it up with 20 litres of fresh UTTO (Q8 T2200) and now it's showing just a hair over the full mark on the dipstick (quite surprising, since all the manuals that I have seen mention that the capacity is around 30 litres!).
As far as I'm aware, there is no oil filter on the transmission.

I'm planning to replace the oil for the torque converter this weekend. The torque converter does have an external filter (in line with the oil cooler). The current oil level for the torque converter is about 0,5cm below the fill port on the right hand side, so I think it should be full enough, but it looks quite dirty. The torque converter should take Automatic Transmission Fluid.

As far as the hydraulic fluid is concerned (my hydraulic tank is actually on the left hand side in the frame), it is on the low mark, but I fill it up quite regularly. There are several leaks that need attention. However, I don't think that this has to do with my issue though, since the hydraulics pump is driven by the front of the engine and is therefore always working when the engine is running (even when the tractor is not moving). The strange noise is definitely controlled by the movement of the tractor (check the video) and disappears as soon as I let go of the accelerator pedal (engine and hydraulics pump are still running then).

There's a pump in the torque converter too, what if the filter is blocked, could that be a cause perhaps?

Thanks everyone for your input!

/Hugo

 

[Danielfire50]

The 50a has a different front end loader
design and is usually has a center pivot
backhoe. All pictures of the 50b have the
side shift backhoe. Fyi there should two
filters for the instant reverse
transmission. One is the suction filter the
other filter is on side of the tractor. You
have to remove the transmission oil pan to
get to the suction filter/screen.

 

[Danielfire50]

That accelerator fork is an older design I
think. The 50a has separate forward and
reverse peddles. The brakes are also
separate and mechanical.
The serial numbers in the US don't include
the model.

 

[malightcommander]

Fyi there should two
filters for the instant reverse
transmission. One is the suction filter the
other filter is on side of the tractor. You
have to remove the transmission oil pan to
get to the suction filter/screen.

Am I correct, that the suction filter is accessible when I take off this panel?

When I changed the transmission oil, I drained the oil in the front section (there is a second drain plug all the way to the back) from plug nr 1. Do you know if both plugs 2 and 3 are for draining the torque converter oil? Plug 3 is not really accessible (blocked by an underframe beam).


Thanks for your insight about the differences with the MF50A! Really interesting to learn about.
I have just heard that the tractor that I have, might be an MF3305. Does that ring any bells to you?

/Hugo

 

[MKinON]

You likely did not get all the oil out of the trans/diff case. There are multiple drains. The whole thing uses the same
oil front to rear from what I can see when I go on agcopartsbooks (as a guest user). It's the same system as our MF40
Industrial with instant reverse. Did you change the screen at the bottom of the trans? Possibly the reason it stops
making noise as soon as you release the throttle is that it's no longer starved for oil as the flow slows. I'm pretty
sure your torque convertor uses the permatran oil from the trans/diff and is not on a separate system. The pump that
supplies trans pressure is at the front of the transmission case, behind the torque convertor. There's not likely any way
to really drain the torque convertor without removing it. The plugs on the front left side of the trans have regulator
valves behind them. That lever probably is for l/r differential braking to aid steering, since you only have one brake
pedal.

 

[Danielfire50]

Yes that pan has to come off to get to the
screen. The plug in the front that is not
accessable has a magnet in it and is
directly below where the torque converter
charge pump pickup tube connects to the
pan. The 50a has a common reservoir some
earlier models had front and rear reservoir
that are separate. 1 & 2 both need to be
pulled. Also there is no way to get all the
oil out of the torque converter.

 

[Danielfire50]

Also would be a good idea to replace the o-rings on the charge pump pickup tube while you have the pan off.

 

[malightcommander]

Alright, that are some clear answers. I will drain the oil behind plug 2 tomorrow and see what we get. After that, I'll drain the fresh oil (plug 1) that I have put in last week and remove that sump cover.

If I understand correctly, when taking the sump cover off, I can expect that a part of the torque converter oil will drain from plug 3?

I am sure that my tractor has separate compartments for the torque converter oil and the transmission oil, because the oil in the torque converter is red ATF (as can be seen from the fill plug on the right hand side) and the oil inside the transmission is brown.

I found an old Swedish operators manual for the MF50B. It specifies the use of ATF Dexron for the torque converter and Mobilfluid 422 for the transmission (that last one is not for sale anymore, I found the Q8 T2200 to be a similar substitute).

/Hugo

 

[Danielfire50]

When you pull plug number 2 most of the
fluid that can drain from the torque
converter will. You can pull plug number
three after the pan is off to clean the
magnet.

 

[MKinON]

You will also need to pull the plug out of the diff housing as it shares the same oil.

 

[malightcommander]

(quoted from post at 14:43:12 05/29/21) You will also need to pull the plug out of the diff housing as it shares the same oil.

You mean the plug all the way at the end of the transmission, right?
This one:

I don't see any other plugs near the differential....

I currently have everything opened up, makes everything a lot clearer to see it in person in stead of just reading about it Unfortunately (or maybe it is a good thing), the filter in the sump was totally clear. Not a single piece of dirt to see.

 

[malightcommander]

Just some photos for future reference:

The sump cover with screen filter in place.

The sump cover without the screen.

Overview of the 2 separate chambers in the transmission. The front end holds the ATF for the torque converter, while the smaller chamber on the back holds the regular transmission oil.

I did a quick test after refilling the ATF and the tractor seems to run fine. Could not immediately reproduce the strange noise, but need further (longer) testing to be sure.

 

[MKinON]

The plug at the side under the brake cylinder.

 

[malightcommander]

Alright, after having everything put together again on Saturday, I did a fair bit of work with the tractor yesterday.

Only at 1 time that strange noise came up again, but only for a second or two and then it disappeared again.
I was not able to really reproduce the noise on my own again.

So, apparently the problem is not fully solved yet, but I do have the feeling that it has improved.

I did clean the filter that is inline with the oil cooler as well, that was actually quite dirty and the metal mesh was really fine, so difficult to clean out. I have ordered a replacement for that one, so will swap that after I have received the part. Maybe that will improve the flow a bit too.

/Hugo