MIG welding frustration

[BarnyardEngineering]

I've been limited to a stick welder for the past four years, but now that I'm back in my own shop, I'm trying to make this Lincoln 210 MP welder work for me in MIG mode.

The welder is about 10 years old and I've never really been able to make it work well on MIG making fillet or butt welds. No matter what settings I use, no matter how fast or how slow I go, push or pull, cursive lowercase e's, straight stringer, weave back and forth, more gas, less gas, less stickout, more stickout... I get worms laying on top of the metal.

The only time I can get anything approaching a weld that flows out is if there's at least 1/16" of a gap between the pieces. Then I can weave across the gap and flows out better.

I've tried tweaking the settings but ANY deviation from the preset values on the welder makes things WORSE. More voltage, worse. Less voltage, worse. Even .1V makes things noticeably worse. More wire, worse. Less wire, worse.

Running .030 Lincoln Superarc L56 wire. C25 gas, 30 cubic feet per hour.

Metal is always CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN. Ground down until it's shiny like a new quarter.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

...and because I knew you'd want a picture, I went out and did my best...

This is the 3/16" program on 3/16" mild steel. First bead is push left-right. Second bead is straight pull right-left. Third bead is backwards cursive e's from right to left.

 

[wh]

Is your polarity set correct ? Should be dc+

 

[Geo-TH,In]

I've been limited to a stick welder for the past four years, but now that I'm back in my own shop, I'm trying to make this Lincoln 210 MP welder work for me in MIG mode.

The welder is about 10 years old and I've never really been able to make it work well on MIG making fillet or butt welds. No matter what settings I use, no matter how fast or how slow I go, push or pull, cursive lowercase e's, straight stringer, weave back and forth, more gas, less gas, less stickout, more stickout... I get worms laying on top of the metal.

The only time I can get anything approaching a weld that flows out is if there's at least 1/16" of a gap between the pieces. Then I can weave across the gap and flows out better.

I've tried tweaking the settings but ANY deviation from the preset values on the welder makes things WORSE. More voltage, worse. Less voltage, worse. Even .1V makes things noticeably worse. More wire, worse. Less wire, worse.

Running .030 Lincoln Superarc L56 wire. C25 gas, 30 cubic feet per hour.

Metal is always CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN. Ground down until it's shiny like a new quarter.

I'm not an expert welder.
99% of my welds are done using rods and a buzz box.
I don't use my mig welder that much.
I find flux wire works better for me than using gas.
Again, I'm self taught and don't do that much welding.
My welding booth is a CBS booth, Clear Blue Sky and the wind blows the gas away from the weld.
That is why flux wire works best for me.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

So push at a bit more of an angle to the work perhaps a bit more travel speed bit more heat. I don’t usually mess around much with a MIG doing a zig zag unless it’s vertical.

I had a lot of trouble when I was using an old mig with an old gun had a press on nozzle. We upgraded to the new spin on nozzle gun that’s really nice it just plugged in same as the old one.

I think the gun cable part was worn out from running wire inside it would feed like poo just well enough for get by you couldn’t really tell by looking at it.

i finally figured out what it was doing. You had to keep your gun completely straight from the machine no deviation as we were taught in welding class don’t leave it in a loop this was that to an extreme.
tried a new roller it didn’t help

Tried a whole new gun and I had a machine that worked like it was supposed to

My welds at home mostly looked about like yours since I was unknowingly compensating for the machine and they flattened out nice with the new gun.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

So push at a bit more of an angle to the work perhaps a bit more travel speed bit more heat. I don’t usually mess around much with a MIG doing a zig zag unless it’s vertical.

I had a lot of trouble when I was using an old mig with an old gun had a press on nozzle. We upgraded to the new spin on nozzle gun that’s really nice it just plugged in same as the old one.

I think the gun cable part was worn out from running wire inside it would feed like poo just well enough for get by you couldn’t really tell by looking at it.

i finally figured out what it was doing. You had to keep your gun completely straight from the machine no deviation as we were taught in welding class don’t leave it in a loop this was that to an extreme.
tried a new roller it didn’t help

Tried a whole new gun and I had a machine that worked like it was supposed to

My welds at home mostly looked about like yours since I was unknowingly compensating for the machine and they flattened out nice with the new gun.

What's "more heat?" More voltage? Less voltage? More wire? Less wire? I've heard welding "experts" say all four at different times.

As I said before though, ANY DEVIATION from the pre-programmed settings make things noticeably worse.

The welder hasn't had enough wire through it to get worn. I've mostly used it as a stick welder, which it excels at.

 

[rockcreek4630]

I've been limited to a stick welder for the past four years, but now that I'm back in my own shop, I'm trying to make this Lincoln 210 MP welder work for me in MIG mode.

The welder is about 10 years old and I've never really been able to make it work well on MIG making fillet or butt welds. No matter what settings I use, no matter how fast or how slow I go, push or pull, cursive lowercase e's, straight stringer, weave back and forth, more gas, less gas, less stickout, more stickout... I get worms laying on top of the metal.

The only time I can get anything approaching a weld that flows out is if there's at least 1/16" of a gap between the pieces. Then I can weave across the gap and flows out better.

I've tried tweaking the settings but ANY deviation from the preset values on the welder makes things WORSE. More voltage, worse. Less voltage, worse. Even .1V makes things noticeably worse. More wire, worse. Less wire, worse.

Running .030 Lincoln Superarc L56 wire. C25 gas, 30 cubic feet per hour.

Metal is always CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN. Ground down until it's shiny like a new quarter.

Try decreasing your gas psi by 5 or 10 and see what happens.

 

[wh]

What's "more heat?" More voltage? Less voltage? More wire? Less wire? I've heard welding "experts" say all four at different times.

As I said before though, ANY DEVIATION from the pre-programmed settings make things noticeably worse.

The welder hasn't had enough wire through it to get worn. I've mostly used it as a stick welder, which it excels at.

Just for giggles — Set machine for 1/4 inch material and try it on the 3/16.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Have you tried preheating.You should not need to but if it helped it would work for a start and would solve the problem till you found the problem. I have trouble with a Century 140 not melting in like I think it should for thin like auger pipe thickness pieces. Preheating helped with that. It would seem that 1470 amps should be plenty for a 8-20 gauge thick pipe or less than an 1/8 inch thick. One of the reasons I don't like not use a wire welder much. Just for light work like sheet iron. I did change the snout on the outside at the end to hold the gas shield better to the weld did help with keeping it welding on some things with a good clean bead.

 

[timcasbolt]

I've had better luck with .023 wire.

 

[cjunrau]

...and because I knew you'd want a picture, I went out and did my best...

This is the 3/16" program on 3/16" mild steel. First bead is push left-right. Second bead is straight pull right-left. Third bead is backwards cursive e's from right to left.

View attachment 128159

Little more to a lot more voltage and less gas. you have pools of gas on the welds. cooling too fast. Hold the stinger at an angle more. I also find pushing away works as well

 

[Fixingfarmer]

What's "more heat?" More voltage? Less voltage? More wire? Less wire? I've heard welding "experts" say all four at different times.

As I said before though, ANY DEVIATION from the pre-programmed settings make things noticeably worse.

The welder hasn't had enough wire through it to get worn. I've mostly used it as a stick welder, which it excels at.

Little more voltage little more angle push faster

 

[Texasmark]

What's "more heat?" More voltage? Less voltage? More wire? Less wire? I've heard welding "experts" say all four at different times.

As I said before though, ANY DEVIATION from the pre-programmed settings make things noticeably worse.

The welder hasn't had enough wire through it to get worn. I've mostly used it as a stick welder, which it excels at.

I use 0.030 solid core preferably at a heat and speed that works for the application and 25/75 gas, after starting out when I bought the welder on 0.035 . I find that the heat required to bring thicker material up to temp to get good wire to steel bonding just isn't there. For the thicker jobs I get out my stick with stick material, amperage and forward speed to suit the application. For 3/16 I would use a 1/4" 7018 at about 90 to100 amps. Thicker than that, more amperage and a 1/4 6011.
I will say this...I am usually tempted to use the MIG, because its easy to get out and get after it. I use my soldering skills on determining how robust my welds are. If I got solder to melt with a smooth flowing out on whatever it is that I am soldering, then I feel confident that I have a low resistance solder joint. If my welds are smooth flowing intersections between the rod and metal, on the edges of the weld, then I feel that the weld will hold its own when put under pressure. I don't see that with your MIG welds.....as you see also.

Butttttttt I am self taught out of necessity. I did go by the local Jr. College and purchase a used text on welding but it helped but not what I was expecting. I loaned it to somebody and they never brought it back....common practice for books or articles I loan to people.

 

[Mule Meat]

Need me to send you some help?
He only accepts Slim Jim's and 110 racing fuel for payment..

 

[MarkB_MI]

...and because I knew you'd want a picture, I went out and did my best...

This is the 3/16" program on 3/16" mild steel. First bead is push left-right. Second bead is straight pull right-left. Third bead is backwards cursive e's from right to left.

View attachment 128159

Frankly, those don't look too bad to me. Penetration looks decent with just a little spatter.

 

[MarkB_MI]

What's "more heat?" More voltage? Less voltage? More wire? Less wire? I've heard welding "experts" say all four at different times.

As I said before though, ANY DEVIATION from the pre-programmed settings make things noticeably worse.

The welder hasn't had enough wire through it to get worn. I've mostly used it as a stick welder, which it excels at.

What's "more heat?" More voltage? Less voltage? More wire? Less wire? I've heard welding "experts" say all four at different times.

Just like with a stick welder, you need more current to get more heat. The thing that's largely misunderstood is that the current control on a MIG welder is labeled "wire speed". From your initial settings, if you need more heat you turn up the wire feed speed. The voltage control is secondary to wire speed. If the wire starts sticking, add more voltage. If spatter is excessive, turn the voltage down.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I don't see anything out of the ordinary there. Mig is not gonna lay down flat on thick plate.

A mig is intended for finer work.... the welds you have shown would blow clean through if you were trying to butt weld exhaust pipes together..... even a lap joint you'd still be dropping the voltage.

Take your test piece, cut it in two parallel with the welds, clamp them to the bench 3/16" apart, then weld it back together..... with those current settings.... You'll see that bead lay nearly flat.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Just like with a stick welder, you need more current to get more heat. The thing that's largely misunderstood is that the current control on a MIG welder is labeled "wire speed". From your initial settings, if you need more heat you turn up the wire feed speed. The voltage control is secondary to wire speed. If the wire starts sticking, add more voltage. If spatter is excessive, turn the voltage down.

Yeah, I've tried increasing wire speed, but even 1 inch per minute faster than the factory program and I don't get the desired "sizzle." It just pops and spatters. Back to factory program, and it sizzles but lays worms. 1 inch per minute less, and it's back to popping and spattering.

I've run the wire speed 5, 10, 20 higher than the factory program, and it just gets worse and worse.

If you raise the wire speed and the voltage, don't they just cancel each other out? You may as well choose the next thicker program, which I've also tried. It just lays a bigger worm.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Just for giggles — Set machine for 1/4 inch material and try it on the 3/16.

Wish I could, but 3/16" is as high as it goes for .030 wire. With .035 wire, it offers a 1/4" program.

I would have no idea what settings to use. I've tried using .035 wire settings, but all it does is ruin tips. Pull the trigger, the wire vaporizes, and melts into the tip.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

What's "more heat?" More voltage? Less voltage? More wire? Less wire? I've heard welding "experts" say all four at different times.

Are you changing one setting at a time and then trying it? Do too much at once and you get lost.

More heat can be be had, within a certain range, at a given voltage, simply by easing down on the wire speed .... all the way down until the arc reaches the contact tip.... but just before that extreme you can drop little balls of molten metal into the weld pool ... useful on dirty work where there is no danger of burn-through, or heavier stock that reall should be welded with a bigger machine. The inverse is also true... my 40 year old Century will literally make screen cloth out of red-hot wire when necessary to fill a large hole. Too fast , obviously, the wire will merely stub the work.