more JD 2020 questions

[INCase]

we were able to take a good look at the tractor last night. seems to be a pretty complete/all original unit. starts fairly well with just a little choke but took a minute to be able to take the choke off. has JD fact rebuilt alternator and even a JD battery. went thru all gears ok no viable repairs on the loader frame (if they did it was along time ago) the bucket has some repairs/reinforcements and is overall pretty straight. very slight leak in 1 lift cylinder (a drop or 2 around the rod) rear tires are 14.9x28 Titians. they have some weather checking and one has a gouge in it. one rim is new with no ballast and the other is in good shape with fluid.

1 Seemed to me like the valve train was rattling pretty well (was listening for rod knock) but with a big hole in the horizontal exhaust it was difficult to distinguish what was going on. motor oil seemed thin and according to the date on the filter hasn't been changed for 2+ years. nothing obvious for oil in water or water in oil.

2 hydraulics chattered when lifting the loader. enough you could feel it in the seat. opened hydraulic fill cap and you could see a little foam on the top of the oil down in the bottom. hyd oil looked ok color wise and was at least up to the bottom mark on the dipstick. did not notice the chatter on the 3pt hitch up/down with a 7ft scraper blade on it.

3 steering has a Y piece under the radiator that the tie rods connect to and when lifting the front off the ground with the loader, and moving the tires there is a lot of slop especially around where that Y piece pivots on the tractor frame. is that difficult to fix? Overall steering seemed easy.

4, brakes seem to drag all the time (push in clutch and the tractor doesn't coast much at all). and you have to pull the pedals back with your foot after you apply them. they do seem to stop and hold the tractor but even pulling back on the pedals (return to off position) they still seem to drag

5, the BIG question: from what i can tell these did not come with live PTO but I cannot tell if its a single stage clutch pedal or dual stage per the owners manual the seller had. The lever on the left side of the transmission moves and engages the PTO (spins) with or without using the clutch. it hangs a bit in the middle of the travel when engaging but with a little effort goes into gear. not rough at all and no grinding of the PTO gear. PTO does NOT stop with the clutch fully depressed. CLutch seemed ok driving wise. if it is a clutch issue that would require splitting the tractor my friend will probably pass on it. otherwise he may make an offer.

thanks for the help

 

[INCase]

and per the serial number it appears to be a 1967 model.

 

[ss55]

we were able to take a good look at the tractor last night. seems to be a pretty complete/all original unit. starts fairly well with just a little choke but took a minute to be able to take the choke off. has JD fact rebuilt alternator and even a JD battery. went thru all gears ok no viable repairs on the loader frame (if they did it was along time ago) the bucket has some repairs/reinforcements and is overall pretty straight. very slight leak in 1 lift cylinder (a drop or 2 around the rod) rear tires are 14.9x28 Titians. they have some weather checking and one has a gouge in it. one rim is new with no ballast and the other is in good shape with fluid.

1 Seemed to me like the valve train was rattling pretty well (was listening for rod knock) but with a big hole in the horizontal exhaust it was difficult to distinguish what was going on. motor oil seemed thin and according to the date on the filter hasn't been changed for 2+ years. nothing obvious for oil in water or water in oil.

2 hydraulics chattered when lifting the loader. enough you could feel it in the seat. opened hydraulic fill cap and you could see a little foam on the top of the oil down in the bottom. hyd oil looked ok color wise and was at least up to the bottom mark on the dipstick. did not notice the chatter on the 3pt hitch up/down with a 7ft scraper blade on it.

3 steering has a Y piece under the radiator that the tie rods connect to and when lifting the front off the ground with the loader, and moving the tires there is a lot of slop especially around where that Y piece pivots on the tractor frame. is that difficult to fix? Overall steering seemed easy.

4, brakes seem to drag all the time (push in clutch and the tractor doesn't coast much at all). and you have to pull the pedals back with your foot after you apply them. they do seem to stop and hold the tractor but even pulling back on the pedals (return to off position) they still seem to drag

5, the BIG question: from what i can tell these did not come with live PTO but I cannot tell if its a single stage clutch pedal or dual stage per the owners manual the seller had. The lever on the left side of the transmission moves and engages the PTO (spins) with or without using the clutch. it hangs a bit in the middle of the travel when engaging but with a little effort goes into gear. not rough at all and no grinding of the PTO gear. PTO does NOT stop with the clutch fully depressed. CLutch seemed ok driving wise. if it is a clutch issue that would require splitting the tractor my friend will probably pass on it. otherwise he may make an offer.

thanks for the help

With a two stage clutch there is a step increase in pedal force in the last 2 or three inches of clutch pedal travel. You can feel the PTO stage in your foot as you depress the clutch pedal.

 

[INCase]

I presume its safe to presume that since the clutch does NOT stop the PTO shaft that it would be the dual stage clutch set up?

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I presume its safe to presume that since the clutch does NOT stop the PTO shaft that it would be the dual stage clutch set up?

Not in my book. I would say it has the independent PTO option. The PTO can be started and stopped with the lever, without having to depress the clutch pedal, correct? It's IPTO then.

Never heard of a Deere with a 2-stage clutch.

 

[wore out]

Not in my book. I would say it has the independent PTO option. The PTO can be started and stopped with the lever, without having to depress the clutch pedal, correct? It's IPTO then.

Never heard of a Deere with a 2-stage clutch.

"Never heard of a Deere with a 2-stage clutch."

On the contrary, MANY Deere utilities have 2-stage clutches.

The parts catalog shows a simple clutch and a non-live PTO option, a "continuous running" two-stage clutch setup, and an independent PTO option with a multiple disc PTO clutch rearward of the main/flywheel clutch.

There's variations if it has a reverser, and the power shift versions used a hydraulically-operated multiple disc clutch.

 

[INCase]

this one is definitely not independent as it does not have the lever between the gear shifters.

My logic is the "single stage clutch" if acting up wouldn't operate for moving the tractor around which seems to be ok. therefore must be the dual/2-stage clutch set up. => hence the question to confirm our suspicions. the seller doesn't have any equipment to try it with to see if its just stuck due to not being used. they seller is a bit of a used car salesman (literally and figuratively) and said it was on a brush hog last year but has not brush hog. he also said its a 1975 and its a 1967 per the Serial Number.

trying to figure out the PTO and how big a deal it may be to fix. hard to find independent tractor repair guys around here as they are getting few and far between.

Thanks.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

this one is definitely not independent as it does not have the lever between the gear shifters.

My logic is the "single stage clutch" if acting up wouldn't operate for moving the tractor around which seems to be ok. therefore must be the dual/2-stage clutch set up. => hence the question to confirm our suspicions. the seller doesn't have any equipment to try it with to see if its just stuck due to not being used. they seller is a bit of a used car salesman (literally and figuratively) and said it was on a brush hog last year but has not brush hog. he also said its a 1975 and its a 1967 per the Serial Number.

trying to figure out the PTO and how big a deal it may be to fix. hard to find independent tractor repair guys around here as they are getting few and far between.

Thanks.

I don't understand. It starts and stops with the lever, no grinding. To me that sounds like an independent PTO.

If the seller used it on a bush hog last year surely he can educate you on how to operate the PTO.

 

[Jim.ME]

this one is definitely not independent as it does not have the lever between the gear shifters.

My logic is the "single stage clutch" if acting up wouldn't operate for moving the tractor around which seems to be ok. therefore must be the dual/2-stage clutch set up. => hence the question to confirm our suspicions. the seller doesn't have any equipment to try it with to see if its just stuck due to not being used. they seller is a bit of a used car salesman (literally and figuratively) and said it was on a brush hog last year but has not brush hog. he also said its a 1975 and its a 1967 per the Serial Number.

trying to figure out the PTO and how big a deal it may be to fix. hard to find independent tractor repair guys around here as they are getting few and far between.

Thanks.

The single and dual/two stage pressure plates look different. Look in the clutch inspection hole (I told you about this in your post on the JD Forum) and see which it has. The single stage pressure plate looks like a regular single disc pressure plate you might see in a pickup truck. The two-stage pressure plate is flatter, heavier, and the fingers have exposed horizontal pivot pins you can see and are held in with cotter pins. If you can't tell post the best picture you can get of what is in there. With nothing hooked to the PTO shaft my 2020 PTO can be engaged without grinding, especially when cold. May tractors will engage without grinding with nothing hooked to the PTO. The operator's manual tells that the pedal can be adjusted on the dual/two stage clutch such that it doesn't operate the second stage if the PTO is not being used, if one chooses.

John Deere calls the dual/two stage clutch a 'continuous running or driven PTO". The single stage one is called 'Transmission Driven PTO".

You are correct the independent PTO would have the hydraulic control lever for the hydraulic clutch pack mounted between the shift levers.

Here is a link to the 2020 parts catalog which may help you.

2020 parts catalog

 

[Jim.ME]

The single and dual/two stage pressure plates look different. Look in the clutch inspection hole (I told you about this in your post on the JD Forum) and see which it has. The single stage pressure plate looks like a regular single disc pressure plate you might see in a pickup truck. The two-stage pressure plate is flatter, heavier, and the fingers have exposed horizontal pivot pins you can see and are held in with cotter pins. If you can't tell post the best picture you can get of what is in there. With nothing hooked to the PTO shaft my 2020 PTO can be engaged without grinding, especially when cold. May tractors will engage without grinding with nothing hooked to the PTO. The operator's manual tells that the pedal can be adjusted on the dual/two stage clutch such that it doesn't operate the second stage if the PTO is not being used, if one chooses.

John Deere calls the dual/two stage clutch a 'continuous running or driven PTO". The single stage one is called 'Transmission Driven PTO".

You are correct the independent PTO would have the hydraulic control lever for the hydraulic clutch pack mounted between the shift levers.

Here is a link to the 2020 parts catalog which may help you.

2020 parts catalog

Here is a picture of the cover plate of a two stage clutch for a 2020.

 

[INCase]

I don't understand. It starts and stops with the lever, no grinding. To me that sounds like an independent PTO.

If the seller used it on a bush hog last year surely he can educate you on how to operate the PTO.

Seller is just a seller. I don't think he knows much and I'm not sure he used it with the brush hog. He claims he only used it to move snow.

 

[INCase]

I don't understand. It starts and stops with the lever, no grinding. To me that sounds like an independent PTO.

If the seller used it on a bush hog last year surely he can educate you on how to operate the PTO.

I think the Seller is just a used car kinda guy. I don't think he knows much and I'm not sure he used it with the brush hog but someone else did. He claims he only used it to move snow. lots of senarios here. i think the best case is the PTO clutch is stuck/rusted in place due to non use. worse case whomever used it with the brush hog busted things up and several possibilities in between.

 

[INCase]

Here is a picture of the cover plate of a two stage clutch for a 2020.

View attachment 4875

Thank you. I think he may go look at it again tomorrow since its supposed to be about 58 here.

 

[INCase]

he bought the tractor so once he gets some equipment he can test the PTO. got a decent deal i thing 5000 delivered. down from 6500 asking price.

 

[BillCinNY]

I have a 1969 2020 diesel that has the 2 stage clutch. The first part of the clutch pedal stops tractor movement while the second part stops the pto, the second part pushes a bit harder than the first step.