My pole building gets taller in the winter (kinda long)

[Chris English]

Well every winter since we built our kennel on the rear of our garage, the frost will heave it up about 2" at the end of the 50' length. It lifts the entire length but minimally on the garage end. These are some of the construction details. Pole construction, 35 x 50,inside is 18' wide in kennel area, poured concrete floor with heat in the concrete.Outside is poured concrete with no heat.
I have had the builder (professional Covers NYS) come back to observe the condition, more for an opinion not looking anything free. The field man gave no definitive solution. Was at the farm show in Syracuse NY this past Thursday and stopped at their booth and mentioned my issue to who I assume was one of their salesmen. He said it sounds like a water issue as that is what causes most heaving problems.
So here is my question, I know my leach field ends just short of my garage location, in fact when we built the kennel it was wet in one corner because of that. So the suggestions the builder rep gave was a 4' deep trench filled with stone running parallel to the kennel to divert the water.
As my picture shows I don't have much pitch along the run and also no where to daylight such a trench. So is a dead end trench a waste of time?
Just as a point of reference, the propane tank is where the kennel pole building starts and also where the leach field line ends

 

[David G]

It will help if you can really drain it well. How deep did you set the posts?

 

[Wemedeeres]

Is the whole building heated to the same temp?

Is the garage a post style building, slab on grade or built on footings? I have seen post frame buildings with heat in one half and cold storage on the other half heav up over time.

The best thing I have seen to fix this problem (however it needs to be done during initial construction) is to wrap the portion of the post that is in the ground with poly. When the ground freezes around the pole in the winter it doesn't allow the soil to "grip" the pole. I work construction and do a lot of underground infrastructure all the fire hydrants, shut offs and water hydrants we install are wrapped like this and give no heaving issues in the winter.

 

[VicS]

My son has a building half heated. But he insulated under his floor. So no problems. At our church We bored 16 in. Holes. Put tile in them. Then a sump pump. About $300 apiece. 4 should do it.

 

[greg oliver]

Chris, I would not want dead end trench because water will be trapped there and freeze. If that is from septic how old is your system and do you have trenches with pipe and stone in them? My boss and I have dealt with similar problems before and its nothing that can't be fixed. Maybe 4 foot deep trench to a pump chamber and a trench that can go to daylight. Just speculating would have to see it when the snow melts in July.Lol Greg

 

[Chris English]

The garage has no heat and if it heaves I have never noticed it. The apron in front of the garage moves but really not an issue. In the kennel (the lower sloped roof in the picture) is heated in the interior section and there is insulation board under it. The posts are down four feet, the poly wrap sounds like a good idea but to late also the concrete was poured around the posts with no expansion material I suspect that's not helping

 

[Chris English]

Yes Greg six laterals with pipe and stone put in in 1987. Three laterals go towards the garage three away from a main line from septic tank

 

[Billy NY]

You could run a perforated pipe, wrapped in filter fabric, back filled with stone in a trench to something like a dry well, (not sure why its called that) Basically a perforated structure typically back filled with clean stone that may give you a place to drain to. A french drain of sorts, and of course if there is water table problem or other drainage issues, it could just fill up and find its own level. Soil conditions play a role here. But, if you can get some slope and run far enough, and the soil percolates, you are above the water table, nothing on the surface interfering, its possible. It is nice to daylight the pipe somewhere, but not advisable if leach field effluent is what its draining.

If the posts are rising, and you could excavate around them, install poly or something to isolate them and not allow any grip, you would think that would solve a problem like this, as was mentioned below. Not sure if that is possible given the concrete slab.

What about the end of the leach field, could that be modified? Is it one lateral that is too close or the entire leach field, and the ends of the pipe? That is supposed to percolate down anyways along the pipe trench. Thinking aloud, if it was one pipe and you could 45 or 90 it away, extend using the same detail, stone, red rosin paper over the top etc. or whatever was approved, easy enough to do, but kind of a questionable idea given its a gravity system, change of direction as every one I have installed were straight runs etc. Though some of the weekend behind the scenes ones done quickly, as long as the soil percolates, it would seem possible.

Unsuitable conditions, the wet area during construction, why was this not addressed when it was under construction, a well drained site is necessary for any building and must be taken care of during site work. The suggestion of isolating the post with poly could have been done when it was built. Hindsight now, but hopefully you can correct the problem.

 

[Chris English]

The wet spot was certainly the leach field. I was responsible for the site prep and just figured the high flow from that lateral was just the water following the least resistance (open pipe) I'm guessing I built over the natural path of the leached water and am now paying the price.
I'm beginning to think the cure will be a trench with a pump at the end.

 

[greg oliver]

Chris, I had water getting in my laid stone cellar and during Tropical storm Lee and hurricane Sandy I ended up with 30 inches of water in my cellar. I had elevation issue and ended up just digging trench 150 feet to daylight. I put some stone in and pitched the pipe about 1/2 on 10 feet and so far works great. Billy also has the right idea to get septic water away. Greg

 

[Mark-Mi]

I think you got the answer. Tile between leach field and barn to tile well. Lift pump to where ever preferably a ditch. Better yet tile around whole building.

 

[gusbratz]

it could be frost jacking. when the surface of the ground freezes it expands and grips the post tightly and pushes it up out of the ground. then thaws and the ground goes back down again. does it again the next year. eventually freeze thaw cycels will push a post up out of the ground. I watched a show on the history channel about the all black army unit that built the highway up to Alaska with junk equipment and hand tools. they used trees for poles on the bridges. to prevent frost jacking they would paint the top couple feet with grease and wrap it with tar paper so the ground could go up and down around the pole. it was a really good show with lots of shots of old Ih dozers working. pretty amazing what those fellows accomplished with very little to work with. I don't think they ever got any real credit for a lot if it.

 

[paul]

Locally it can be quite spendy to mess with a leach field, lot of regulations in getting a drain too close to one, etc.

And not allowed to build too close for the reasons you are having......

Aside from the legal concerns, a tile to drain this away is the solution from a bit of a poor design/ layout.

Does anything bad really happen from the 2 inch heave? Does it need to be fixed?

Paul

 

[howdy1960]

Well darn, I missed the farm show again.
They used to do better advertising of it.

Sorry but nothing better to add that others haven't already said.

 

[JD Seller]

Well you knowingly built on a WET spot. So now you just have to dry that spot up. A modern household uses a BUNCH of water on a daily basis. So it has to have a larger leach area than in times past.

You have been give some good advice. You need a drain of some sort to stop the water form the leach line/field seeping under your building.

IF you have the area and fall you can just bury a perforated line and back fill it with clean rock. Than will drain the area. If you do not have natural fall you will have to install you tile with it draining into a sump that you will have to pump out.

Just chalk this up to the cost of "learning" things as you go through life.

 

[showcrop]

2X what Billy NY said. but let me add that since it may or may not work, do a little investigation first by digging a test pit at the best spot that you have for the dry well. just as is done for septic system leach fields. The test will give you a good idea of weather or nor the fix would work.

 

[NEBeef]

(quoted from post at 22:23:19 03/01/15) Locally it can be quite spendy to mess with a leach field, lot of regulations in getting a drain too close to one, etc.

Yeah, a big 10-4 to that. A drain (to daylight or not) on the edge of a leach field (typically called an "interceptor") is to keep ground water from getting into the leach field, NOT to drain the leach water off. If you drain leach water to daylight expect a visit from a not-too-happy BOH...