NAA Front Mounted Plow Hydraulics

[Ian074]

I have an NAA with a trip bucket FEL. The hydraulics are supplied via a remote adaptation to the block off plate. Everything works great.
This winter I plan on exchanging the bucket for a snow plow. The hydraulic control will allow me to lower the blade as far as the plow shoes allow.
In order to follow the contour of whatever terrain I plow won't the hydraulic system hold the plow up over the low spots?
Is there another control to somehow allow the blade to kind of float with terrain. Something like constantly holding the remote down when plowing forward.??
I hope I have explained what I am getting at. Sometimes the things in my head fail to make it to the printed word an a way that makes sense to others.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 22:52:37 06/24/09) I have an NAA with a trip bucket FEL. The hydraulics are supplied via a remote adaptation to the block off plate. Everything works great.
This winter I plan on exchanging the bucket for a snow plow. The hydraulic control will allow me to lower the blade as far as the plow shoes allow.
In order to follow the contour of whatever terrain I plow won't the hydraulic system hold the plow up over the low spots?
Is there another control to somehow allow the blade to kind of float with terrain. Something like constantly holding the remote down when plowing forward.??
I hope I have explained what I am getting at. Sometimes the things in my head fail to make it to the printed word an a way that makes sense to others.

The operational word is "float". You want a control valve that has a "float" position on the raise/lower spool. Moving that spool to the down position forces the blade down. But if you move the spool ALL the way to the down position and hold it the spool has an additonal float position that simply lets the blade move freely up and down - it "disengages" the cylinders. Most DA loader control valves have float on one spool to facilitate grading. If your loader is SA it's not needed since the down position is gravity drop and is in essence a float operation - e.g. no down pressure.

Hope that wasn't too confusing,

TOH

 

[Ian074]

(quoted from post at 16:17:20 06/25/09)

(quoted from post at 22:52:37 06/24/09) I have an NAA with a trip bucket FEL. The hydraulics are supplied via a remote adaptation to the block off plate. Everything works great.
This winter I plan on exchanging the bucket for a snow plow. The hydraulic control will allow me to lower the blade as far as the plow shoes allow.
In order to follow the contour of whatever terrain I plow won't the hydraulic system hold the plow up over the low spots?
Is there another control to somehow allow the blade to kind of float with terrain. Something like constantly holding the remote down when plowing forward.??
I hope I have explained what I am getting at. Sometimes the things in my head fail to make it to the printed word an a way that makes sense to others.

The operational word is "float". You want a control valve that has a "float" position on the raise/lower spool. Moving that spool to the down position forces the blade down. But if you move the spool ALL the way to the down position and hold it the spool has an additonal float position that simply lets the blade move freely up and down - it "disengages" the cylinders. Most DA loader control valves have float on one spool to facilitate grading. If your loader is SA it's not needed since the down position is gravity drop and is in essence a float operation - e.g. no down pressure.

Hope that wasn't too confusing,

TOH

Thanks and no, its not too confusing but does lead to more questions.
The FEL is a Fasco. At the moment the hydraulic cylinders are DA but they are, no doubt, replacements for the original SA cylinders that came with the original FEL many years ago. My hydraulic control for the FEL is a Prince SA. So there is no down pressure option
I can see no position for a float mode. When the control valve is at rest it holds the bucket up by blocking fluid from exhausting back through the system.
Maybe an example will help me explain better.
If I lower the bucket to rest on, say, a couple of 6X6 blocks then remove the blocks the bucket still maintains its position until I use the control to lower it more..
Can I obtain a float mode locking the control ( a wedge or strap on the handle) in the down position as I plow forward?

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 11:02:12 06/25/09)

(quoted from post at 16:17:20 06/25/09)

(quoted from post at 22:52:37 06/24/09) I have an NAA with a trip bucket FEL. The hydraulics are supplied via a remote adaptation to the block off plate. Everything works great.
This winter I plan on exchanging the bucket for a snow plow. The hydraulic control will allow me to lower the blade as far as the plow shoes allow.
In order to follow the contour of whatever terrain I plow won't the hydraulic system hold the plow up over the low spots?
Is there another control to somehow allow the blade to kind of float with terrain. Something like constantly holding the remote down when plowing forward.??
I hope I have explained what I am getting at. Sometimes the things in my head fail to make it to the printed word an a way that makes sense to others.

The operational word is "float". You want a control valve that has a "float" position on the raise/lower spool. Moving that spool to the down position forces the blade down. But if you move the spool ALL the way to the down position and hold it the spool has an additonal float position that simply lets the blade move freely up and down - it "disengages" the cylinders. Most DA loader control valves have float on one spool to facilitate grading. If your loader is SA it's not needed since the down position is gravity drop and is in essence a float operation - e.g. no down pressure.

Hope that wasn't too confusing,

TOH

Thanks and no, its not too confusing but does lead to more questions.
The FEL is a Fasco. At the moment the hydraulic cylinders are DA but they are, no doubt, replacements for the original SA cylinders that came with the original FEL many years ago. My hydraulic control for the FEL is a Prince SA. So there is no down pressure option
I can see no position for a float mode. When the control valve is at rest it holds the bucket up by blocking fluid from exhausting back through the system.
Maybe an example will help me explain better.
If I lower the bucket to rest on, say, a couple of 6X6 blocks then remove the blocks the bucket still maintains its position until I use the control to lower it more..
Can I obtain a float mode locking the control ( a wedge or strap on the handle) in the down position as I plow forward?

OK - you have a SA control valve plumbed to a some DA cylinders which are being used in SA mode. The SA valve works as follows:

• [*:06c89ef885]In the "extend" position it sends pressurized fluid to the work port on the cylinder causing it to extend - air in the other end of the cylinder is exhausted via some currently unknown mechanism (breather on the other work port?)[*:06c89ef885]In the neutral position the valve traps the oil in the extended cylinder holding the lift position[*:06c89ef885]In the "retract" position the trapped oil in the cylinder is allowed to return to the sump as gravity pulls the lift arms down and pushes the trapped oil out of the work port on the cylinder[/list:06c89ef885] The action in number 3 above is exactly the same as you would get with the "float" position on a DA spool. And as with your SA valve you typically have to manually hold the control lever in the float position. The DA valves usually have a spring return to center action causing them to return to the neutral position when released. In other words because an SA valve/cylinder circuit doesn't have down pressure capability they always operate in "float" mode.
  
  If you don't want to have to hold the control lever on your valve in the down/float position you may be able to disable the spring return to center action. That would of course mean you have to explicitly move the valve into the neutral position after lowering the bucket if you want it to "hold" in mid-air. Normally using one hand to hold the valve in the down/float position as you scrape or grade isn't a problem but with the heavy steering on a loader equipped N you'd better have a strong off arm :roll:
  
  TOH

 

[Ian074]

Okay thanks. So it is as I thought. In order to have a float option I have to physically hold the handle down while grading/plowing. What I will probably wind up doing is fashion some type of simple locking device to hold the handle down when I need the floating action.
As for hard steeering with a FEL. I found that a 400 lb counter weight worked just about perfect to maintain the non FEL drivability. When using it for a lot of heavy lifting I add or subtract counter weight to what I need.
Thanks again.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 14:26:36 06/25/09) Okay thanks. So it is as I thought. In order to have a float option I have to physically hold the handle down while grading/plowing. What I will probably wind up doing is fashion some type of simple locking device to hold the handle down when I need the floating action.
As for hard steeering with a FEL. I found that a 400 lb counter weight worked just about perfect to maintain the non FEL drivability. When using it for a lot of heavy lifting I add or subtract counter weight to what I need.
Thanks again.

Might I suggest a KISS sort of solution? A spring, bungee, etc. that you can hook to the handle to hold it in the "retract" position rather than a "lock". The reason being is that you are going to want to raise the blade on a regular basis as you operate the tractor. With a bungee you just pull on the lever to overcome the "lock". In the event you need to keep it raised for an extended period simply unhook the bungee.

TOH