naa spark plugs

[oldtractordude]

I was checking the plugs and points the other day and noticed the plugs were they were alittle carboned up,the plugs were autolite 216s .Now i have been checking out what is the best plug to run in the old girl. some say autolite 437, champion H-12 or the NGK's 3112 . Maybe someone has something new . The carb was rebuilt a couple of years a go and i did ajust it according to the manual. thanks for the input you guys have helped me keep her running for years.

 

[Jimmyjack]

The 437s work for me, but I don't have stock in Oreillys.

 

[Tall T]

Your namesake on the N Forum, OLD, had this to say about plugs:

From Old: "I was using auto lite till they started making them in China so I have since switched to NGK3112 that are the specs of the Auto lite 437s."

"By the way my 841 had gotten hard to start but once I installed new NGK3112 plugs it fires right up. It had auto lite 437s in it but never again."

Hard to say how old the 437's were before he changed them.

 

[Tall T]

By the way, I'm using 437's and my Jubilee fires up instantly and never falters but it is tuned up well . . .new points, cap, rotor and solid core wires . . .
so who knows. I'll try the NGK's next.

 

[old]

Les then 2 years old and the old 841 is used only to move hay and gravel from time to time so less then 100 hours a year if that many

 

[old]

Ya now days I use the NGK 3112 since they seem to be a whole lot better then the now China made auto and champ plugs. Have tried them in more then just my ford 841 and have them in my A/C WD45 and they do not foul out like the auto and champs did

 

[Tall T]

A cameo appearance of OLD
And tractor tales untold . . .

I had saved those comments of yours in my tune up file!

and now the new expanded version.

I decided back then, that based on your story that far, I was going to get NGK's next. Be interesting comparing them in my beast.


Signed,
Young
well at least in heart anyway
as often as I can be.

 

[Michaels Dad]

I recently tried some NGK's on my 640.
I did about 2 hours of dragging caliche with a heavy 7' box blade up hill at about 950-1000 RPM and low gear most of the time.
Pulled the plugs out and they all looked fouled.
Put one side by side with an Autolite and noticed the nose was a lot shorter than the A's.
Going back to Autolites.

 

[old]

The auto lite 437s I had in the 841 when pulled out looked black and fouled. I have run the 841 with the NGKs and pulled one or tow of them out after running it for a while and they look like a good working plug should look. Ya the Auto lites where 2 or so years old and the NGKs I got this past summer

 

[Tall T]

(quoted from post at 10:04:09 12/19/15) The auto lite 437s I had in the 841 when pulled out looked black and fouled. I have run the 841 with the NGKs and pulled one or tow of them out after running it for a while and they look like a good working plug should look. Ya the Auto lites where 2 or so years old and the NGKs I got this past summer

My 437's after a summer of use have a light fluffy black dusting.
I've leaned out the fuel as much as I can. The Jube doesn't use any oil to speak of so it isn't oil fouling. You've got me anxious to try the Japanese plugs -- nothing to lose. Sure be nice if it isn't valve related.

Do those NGK's have the V-shaped electrode?

T

 

[Michaels Dad]

(quoted from post at 15:18:22 12/19/15)

(quoted from post at 10:04:09 12/19/15) The auto lite 437s I had in the 841 when pulled out looked black and fouled. I have run the 841 with the NGKs and pulled one or tow of them out after running it for a while and they look like a good working plug should look. Ya the Auto lites where 2 or so years old and the NGKs I got this past summer

My 437's after a summer of use have a light fluffy black dusting.
I've leaned out the fuel as much as I can. The Jube doesn't use any oil to speak of so it isn't oil fouling. You've got me anxious to try the Japanese plugs -- nothing to lose. Sure be nice if it isn't valve related.

Do those NGK's have the V-shaped electrode?

T

No, they have the regular bar.
Speaking of NGK's, I just had a NGK plug actually quit on me on my Honda powered pressure washer.
Don't know why the NGK's didn't work for me, I'll just keep the old 437's and blast them and re-gap them every once in a while.

 

[sotxbill]

If.... you have bad plugs of any brand, putting good plugs in will fix it....

Good working autolites are just as good as good working nkg's..

That being said.... plugs have a heat range design and you need to stay with the correct plugs.

And ... plugs are sensitive to higher compression.. So higher compression engines have to have better quality plugs. Lower compression engines are not sensitive to plug quality. The tractors are NOT 180 psi engine and will run well on almost any GOOD plug of the correct heat range.

Moral of story.. If you have good autolite plugs, dont sweat it as they will last till the electrodes burn down and that will be a very very very long time. If you bad plugs, replace them. Good plugs can be cleaned and re-gapped. And a slightly rich engine will run cooler and perform better even if it leaves a bit of residue on the plugs.

 

[Jimmyjack]

You hit the nail on the head!

 

[Michaels Dad]

Amen

 

[Royse]

I have to agree, good plugs are good plugs.
They can be cleaned and re-gapped most of the time.
Bad plugs are bad plugs, replace them.

As to the heat range, 216's would be the correct range.
437 are one heat range hotter and seem to work just fine.
Same with the Champion H12's.
I haven't looked up the NGK's.

 

[sotxbill]

If we were talking HIGH COMPRESSION engines, there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in plug brands. I have 4 of the old fashion sparkplug testers that you test the plugs under compression. Most plugs crap out at 150lbs and higher. Even brand new plugs. So with those, going to special brands is very very important. I have 13 motorcycles, and even ngk's are a bit sketchy but are usually the better plugs. Below 150lbs and especially around 120lbs and lower, most plugs pass the test with flying colors. Although I admit that I rarely buy new plugs for tractors as I sand blast them, blow em clean, run a compression/ fire test on em, and put em back end. As I said, at lower compression area, most all plugs are good, used plugs and new plugs, so unless they have electrodes burn off, a good cleaning, especially way down into the porcelain area to remove the soot that causes misfire, they all clean up and work well. dirty plugs may need two cleanings to finally clean up and pass the test if they were horrible fowled. Narrow plug gaps does allow "flooding" much easier than wider gapped plugs. A high energy ignition will "fire though" a flooded plug where a normal ignition will not burn the gas bubble clean and simply short to ground. So larger gaps and high energy ignitions are always better.

 

[gears]

I wonder if there's an E3 "diamond fire" plug for our tractors.... Also thinking of wiring an MSD6A cdi ignition box into the 3400, it's sitting on a shelf and it's 5 wires to hook up.

 

[NoNewParts]

When I get a Ford tractor that takes them, I throw a new set of autolite 437's in, and forget about them.
Spark, foul, whatever issues after that?.....I have other problems...address those..plugs are fine.
Like the other posters, bad out of the box? it happens, but if it's good....it's good.

I've always been an autolite man since my Ford go fast days.
(tips were tougher, they didn't wear as fast as others)
but I will admit to a quality issue recently.
USA built were always good, then Mexico built 99% good,
but then china built...they needed to be checked first always.
But, very recently..quality is getting good again.
Somebody posted here, Tony maybe?, that autolite was going back to mexico build. hope so

 

[Hobo,NC]

This is what I had to say about autolite plugs back in 2012 the year from ell thanks autolite/China...


http://forums.yesterdaystractors.co...;postorder=asc&highlight=ngk&start=15

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1189863&highlight=ngk

I found them bad out of the box I still have a few boxes of new 437 bad I will not use them. I had them come apart and dance around in the cylinders (top of the line autolites at that)... On the professional sites Jay Buckley got beat up rite bad over there china connection. Last I heard things got so bad they moved there production back to mexico. LOOK at the box if made in China run from them.

My supplier just switched from Purolator to Wix filters I have used Purolator for 40 years are more never a problem. I have had two defective wix this year one I have one packaged and ready to ship to them. I had four of that number on the shelf all had the same defect.

Week before last I had four defective sensors all customer installed a DIY'er does not stand a snowballs chance in ell these days trying to fix his own stuff with the garbage that's out there.
1) map 1) TPS 1) ignition coil and a crank sensor...

If you ever get a chance to see a spark plug tester in action its a eye opener. :wink: It could be talked about all day seeing is believing...

 

[NoNewParts]

(quoted from post at 10:18:59 12/23/15) This is what I had to say about autolite plugs back in 2012 the year from ell thanks autolite/China...


http://forums.yesterdaystractors.co...;postorder=asc&highlight=ngk&start=15

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1189863&highlight=ngk

I found them bad out of the box I still have a few boxes of new 437 bad I will not use them. I had them come apart and dance around in the cylinders (top of the line autolites at that)... On the professional sites Jay Buckley got beat up rite bad over there china connection. Last I heard things got so bad they moved there production back to mexico. LOOK at the box if made in China run from them.

My supplier just switched from Purolator to Wix filters I have used Purolator for 40 years are more never a problem. I have had two defective wix this year one I have one packaged and ready to ship to them. I had four of that number on the shelf all had the same defect.

Week before last I had four defective sensors all customer installed a DIY'er does not stand a snowballs chance in ell these days trying to fix his own stuff with the garbage that's out there.
1) map 1) TPS 1) ignition coil and a crank sensor...

If you ever get a chance to see a spark plug tester in action its a eye opener. :wink: It could be talked about all day seeing is believing...

good info
I missed that quote of Jay Buckley in my daily reading/studying here. thanks

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 20:38:46 12/23/15)

(quoted from post at 10:18:59 12/23/15) This is what I had to say about autolite plugs back in 2012 the year from ell thanks autolite/China...


http://forums.yesterdaystractors.co...;postorder=asc&highlight=ngk&start=15

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1189863&highlight=ngk

I found them bad out of the box I still have a few boxes of new 437 bad I will not use them. I had them come apart and dance around in the cylinders (top of the line autolites at that)... On the professional sites Jay Buckley got beat up rite bad over there china connection. Last I heard things got so bad they moved there production back to mexico. LOOK at the box if made in China run from them.

My supplier just switched from Purolator to Wix filters I have used Purolator for 40 years are more never a problem. I have had two defective wix this year one I have one packaged and ready to ship to them. I had four of that number on the shelf all had the same defect.

Week before last I had four defective sensors all customer installed a DIY'er does not stand a snowballs chance in ell these days trying to fix his own stuff with the garbage that's out there.
1) map 1) TPS 1) ignition coil and a crank sensor...

If you ever get a chance to see a spark plug tester in action its a eye opener. :wink: It could be talked about all day seeing is believing...

good info
I missed that quote of Jay Buckley in my daily reading/studying here. thanks

Another quote from dr. Jay

Some companies (Autolite, Champion, NGK) spend an extensive
amount of engineering time matching aftermarket plugs to oe
plugs. many do nothing more than match the physical
dimensions and get close on the heat range, usually erring
on the cold side of the heat range. This error in heat range
selction can cause fouling and cold start issues. Like for
like is always a good choice when selcting aftermarket
parts. I have heard from guys who say that autolite plugs do
not work in fords, only motorcraft plugs do. Well, there is
no difference between the two except the paint on the
insulator. AC Delco plugs are now made by NGK and Autolite
so I guess that something works in GM engines besides AC
Delco made plugs. Again, it goes back to how much
engineering time was spent matching the plugs.

My Favorite quote from dr.Jay

After being involved with selling parts to OE's for the last
18 yrs, I can tell you they simply do not care about "second
owner" issues. The cars are designed to be easy to assemble,
not to take apart and reassemble. I almost got fired once
for berating a Ford engineer when he commented that he
didn't care about a quality defect that would only arise for
the second or third owner of the vehicle. I told him the
tale of two teens, one buys a rusty corolla, the other buys
a rusty taurus. The taurus suffers transmission failure and
head gasket failure, the teen could have bought a new car
for what she invested over five years. The corolla? It
continued to rust and RUN. Oil changes, gas, belts, shocks
thats it.

They both graduate from college and get good jobs, and
promptly go off and buy new toyotas. The measure of Quality
is NOT JD powers ratings for things gone wrong in the first
year. It is the five year resale value. The up side is this,
I have done over 500 3400 intake gaskets in the last 6 yrs.
This crap makes tons of money for us, it just doesn't make
us popular with our customers. remember, it takes 1000
engineers to build a car, and one great tech to fix it.

I own a Cadillac CTS-V. Its an incredible car, brought to
its knee's by a differential that GM knew wasn't strong
enough for the engine, wheel hop issues they knew all about
and the paint peeling off the radio knobs? After building
cars for all these years, they don't know how to do that?
Pathetic! Still love it though.

 

[Fighting suburbia in NC]

I just changed out 10? year old Autolites that came in a Ford tune-up kit from the dealer (cap/points/plugs/rotor button) IIRC they were AL7Cs or some really strange designation. I had plug wire issues when up at my Dad's years ago and decided that I would freshen up everything since I was at least 30 minutes one way from Meadows of Dan Tractor Service (RIP) and figured it was due anyway.

Had a plug, wire, or dead cylinder issue that showed up recently so I got a set of NGK 3112s, gapped them .025" and changed them out. Compression was lower than I like across the board but the new plugs made it purr. Old plugs did not look bad, maybe a little rich/oil fouled but not crusty by any means, but apparently the one decided to flake out. I measured the resistance on all the plugs and they all measured the same but at least that one was not conducting when I checked it with a timing light.

Used the tractor to pull on a nice but dead red oak to get it to fall where I wanted and then split maybe 3/4 cord of wood on the pto splitter and it never missed a beat. For something that does not get used regularly enough it runs well.

Since I put a Pertronix on it years ago, if it has enough voltage, she starts right up every time. Starts even better now with the new plugs in it. Got to love updraft carbs - I think I am the only person I know who can figure out how to get it started (unintentional theft deterrent system).