Need Alternator help

[super99]

I posted about installing an alternator on my Oliver super 88 diesel. Got it on and not getting any output from it. Looked on You Tube and all of the installation instructions were for gas units. Here’s a diagram showing what I had before starting installation.

I installed the alternator and thought I had bought a 1 wire but it is a 3 wire alternator. I ran 10 guage wire from alternator to lug on ammeter. That didn’t work. I added a toggle switch, power from battery and wire to alternator, still nothing. Switched wire to the other plug on the alternator and still nothing. What do I need to add and where do I hook it up to make this work? There is no starter switch, starter has a push rod, no lights. Just need it to charge the battery. Should the wire from the alternator go straight to the battery? Obviously I don’t have a clue what I’m doing. Do I need a regulator in this mess? I thought it had a built in regulator. Hope you can read the diagrams I made. About ready to throw it away and get a 1 wire alternator. Thanks, Chris

 

[moresmoke]

Top of the T is your voltage sensing terminal. Should be connected to the battery, but any B+ will work.

Leg of the T is your indicator light/exciting power. Needs to be fed from switched B+, not sure if the light is needed or not.

I don’t know how many amps your alternator is rated for, but most are not wired through an amp meter as they can’t carry the current. At least to get things going, I would wire the output lug direct to the battery or a battery cable. You can check for output with a volt meter. When the alt kicks in you will have 14-14.5 volts.

 

[Janicholson]

If the alternator is a Hitachi (or clone) the spade that is the stem of the "T" is to be switched with your toggle (a momentary contact push button is better because you won't leave it on). The other spade making the cross of the "T" is to be atteache to the Battery stud with 6 inches of wire. Jim

 

[Janicholson]

It is internally regulated, no outside regulator is used. Jim

 

[55 50 Ron]

I posted about installing an alternator on my Oliver super 88 diesel. Got it on and not getting any output from it. Looked on You Tube and all of the installation instructions were for gas units. Here’s a diagram showing what I had before starting installation.View attachment 88119 I installed the alternator and thought I had bought a 1 wire but it is a 3 wire alternator. I ran 10 guage wire from alternator to lug on ammeter. That didn’t work. I added a toggle switch, power from battery and wire to alternator, still nothing. Switched wire to the other plug on the alternator and still nothing. What do I need to add and where do I hook it up to make this work? There is no starter switch, starter has a push rod, no lights. Just need it to charge the battery. Should the wire from the alternator go straight to the battery? Obviously I don’t have a clue what I’m doing. Do I need a regulator in this mess? I thought it had a built in regulator. Hope you can read the diagrams I made. About ready to throw it away and get a 1 wire alternator. Thanks, Chris The wire from battery +View attachment 88120

Since this is a diesel, you don't need the toggle switch. The wire from + of the battery that was on the toggle switch should connect to the ammeter same side as the wire to the preheater button. then add a short wire (16 gauge, or use the same wire that was on the toggle) from the big stud output of the alternator to that small alternator terminal. The rod for the starter should work just as before since it is just mechanical.

As Nicholson said the ammeter will most likely peg to + if you connect as I mentioned. So if it does peg, then you will need to move the + wire from battery to the other side of the ammeter. This is sort of hard to explain with just words.

Sorry it was Moresmoke that mentioned that the alternator output might peg the ammeter.

 

[Mule Meat]

The alternator in the photo he posted yesterday is a Denso three wire.

 

[Janicholson]

Since this is a diesel, you don't need the toggle switch. The wire from + of the battery that was on the toggle switch should connect to the ammeter same side as the wire to the preheater button. then add a short wire (16 gauge, or use the same wire that was on the toggle) from the big stud output of the alternator to that small alternator terminal. The rod for the starter should work just as before since it is just mechanical.

That would work as well.

 

[Janicholson]

The alternator in the photo he posted yesterday is a Denso three wire.

Type 1 it is. Jim

 

[super99]

SUCCESS!! Kinda. I switched wires as suggested and started it, battery tester said14 volts at idle and 14.2 at 1/2 throttle, so it's charging. Either I have 3 bad amp guages or the guage isn't wired correctly. How should the amp guage be wired? Not sure why, but I touched the alternator a few hours after shutting it off and it was too warm to hold onto, I checked it with the infra red thermometer and the alternator was 127 degrees. I unhooked the wire from the battery, seems like it is drawing current when not running. Do I need a diode or something in the wire from the battery to the alternator. I checked the toggle switch and it is shutting power off.

 

[Hobo,NC]

SUCCESS!! Kinda. I switched wires as suggested and started it, battery tester said14 volts at idle and 14.2 at 1/2 throttle, so it's charging. Either I have 3 bad amp guages or the guage isn't wired correctly. How should the amp guage be wired? Not sure why, but I touched the alternator a few hours after shutting it off and it was too warm to hold onto, I checked it with the infra red thermometer and the alternator was 127 degrees. I unhooked the wire from the battery, seems like it is drawing current when not running. Do I need a diode or something in the wire from the battery to the alternator. I checked the toggle switch and it is shutting power off.View attachment 88194View attachment 88195View attachment 88196View attachment 88197

Put a voltmeter in place of the amp gauge life will be good. I would also install the correct connector for the alt.

 

[moresmoke]

SUCCESS!! Kinda. I switched wires as suggested and started it, battery tester said14 volts at idle and 14.2 at 1/2 throttle, so it's charging. Either I have 3 bad amp guages or the guage isn't wired correctly. How should the amp guage be wired? Not sure why, but I touched the alternator a few hours after shutting it off and it was too warm to hold onto, I checked it with the infra red thermometer and the alternator was 127 degrees. I unhooked the wire from the battery, seems like it is drawing current when not running. Do I need a diode or something in the wire from the battery to the alternator. I checked the toggle switch and it is shutting power off.View attachment 88194View attachment 88195View attachment 88196View attachment 88197

You may need to switch your voltage sensing wire. The 6 inch one. Try unplugging it first to see if the alt cools down.

The amp meter won’t read much as the main load is on the red wire, and it bypasses the amp meter. The only draw you have on the amp meter is the exciter wire and that is just momentary draw before the alternator starts charging.

I have a MH 44D. The complete electrical system is a starter with a couple cables to the battery, a mechanical starter switch, and a one wire alt with a single wire to the battery. Simple and works just fine.

 

[Jim.ME]

SUCCESS!! Kinda. I switched wires as suggested and started it, battery tester said14 volts at idle and 14.2 at 1/2 throttle, so it's charging. Either I have 3 bad amp guages or the guage isn't wired correctly. How should the amp guage be wired? Not sure why, but I touched the alternator a few hours after shutting it off and it was too warm to hold onto, I checked it with the infra red thermometer and the alternator was 127 degrees. I unhooked the wire from the battery, seems like it is drawing current when not running. Do I need a diode or something in the wire from the battery to the alternator. I checked the toggle switch and it is shutting power off.View attachment 88194View attachment 88195View attachment 88196View attachment 88197

Denso type one does not have a sense wire. Get rid of the wire from the alternator output post. It is hot because currently you are giving it excitation power all the time, even when the engine is stopped. That spade terminal is supposed to be switched power. The other spade is for a warning light.

Edit: Corrected not to hot.

 

[55 50 Ron]

SUCCESS!! Kinda. I switched wires as suggested and started it, battery tester said14 volts at idle and 14.2 at 1/2 throttle, so it's charging. Either I have 3 bad amp guages or the guage isn't wired correctly. How should the amp guage be wired? Not sure why, but I touched the alternator a few hours after shutting it off and it was too warm to hold onto, I checked it with the infra red thermometer and the alternator was 127 degrees. I unhooked the wire from the battery, seems like it is drawing current when not running. Do I need a diode or something in the wire from the battery to the alternator. I checked the toggle switch and it is shutting power off.View attachment 88194View attachment 88195View attachment 88196View attachment 88197

The charge current from alternator to the battery must pass through the ammeter even if it pegs the ammeter. It looks like you have the red wire going direct from the alternator to the battery. That red wire needs to route through the ammeter, then go to the battery. When running the alternator current should peg to meter +. lf it pegs toward -then reverse all ammeter leads.

As Hobo said it is fine to replace ammeter with a voltmeter to get away from the meter pegging problem.

Napa Legend is a great battery.

 

[Mule Meat]

You need to remove the wire circled in red.
The way you have it wired. The alternator is drawing power from the battery all of the time. You will drain and/or destroy the battery or burn up the alternator.

The black wire going back toward the dash should not have power on it when the engine is stopped..
An oil pressure switch works good on non keyed engines. One wire to the battery. One wire to excite the alternator. Once the engine has been shut off. The switch automatically shuts off.

 

[Jim.ME]

You need to remove the wire circled in red.
The way you have it wired. The alternator is drawing power from the battery all of the time. You will drain and/or destroy the battery or burn up the alternator.

View attachment 88198

The black wire going back toward the dash should not have power on it when the engine is stopped..
An oil pressure switch works good on non keyed engines. One wire to the battery. One wire to excite the alternator. Once the engine has been shut off. The switch automatically shuts off.

View attachment 88200

Look at the Type 1 connections in the document Janicholson's post (post # 8). It appears the black wire he has going back to the dash is on the warning light terminal. Switched power is supposed to be on the IG terminal (top of the "T" where he currently has the wire from the alternator's battery output stud connected. The Denso does not use a sensing wire like a three-wire Delco type.

super99,

The ammeter will not read any charging output when the wire from the alternator output stud is run directly to the battery, you bypassed the ammeter completely.

The wire to the IG terminal just needs a switch to control it. It looks like you have that, but that wire is on the wrong terminal of the alternator. With a mechanical fuel shutoff, like a pull cable, no oil switch, indicator light, diode, or resistor is needed in the excitation wire to prevent back feed from the alternator causing engine run on as can happen with a gas engine or diesel with an electric fuel solenoid.

.

 

[super99]

I think I finally got it working! I unhooked the short wire on the alternator, moved the red wire from the battery and hooked it to the toggle switch, moved the wire from the bottom spade to the top position. Started it up and whenI flipped the switch it showed charge on the ammeter. Battery tester showed 13 volts at idle and 14 at 3/4 throttle. If I turn off the toggle switch it stops charging. I let it run for about 15 minutes or so and it was still charging same rate, hopeing the rate will drop after battery gets charged up. I checked voltage after I shut it down and it was 13 volts. Should it have kicked out before I shut it off? Thanks to all who helped out, Chris

 

[Jim.ME]

I think I finally got it working! I unhooked the short wire on the alternator, moved the red wire from the battery and hooked it to the toggle switch, moved the wire from the bottom spade to the top position. Started it up and whenI flipped the switch it showed charge on the ammeter. Battery tester showed 13 volts at idle and 14 at 3/4 throttle. If I turn off the toggle switch it stops charging. I let it run for about 15 minutes or so and it was still charging same rate, hopeing the rate will drop after battery gets charged up. I checked voltage after I shut it down and it was 13 volts. Should it have kicked out before I shut it off? Thanks to all who helped out, Chris

It may be that I am misunderstanding what you wrote, however the red wire from the output post of the alternator should go to the ammeter, not the toggle switch. while it works and will show a charge that way, the switch will likely fail shortly if the alternator output is put through that toggle switch.

If the alternator is charging correctly, you can/will see a surface charge reading over 12.6 volts on a fully charged

battery right after the engine is stopped.

 

[super99]

My bad, red wire from alternator goes to amp guage. Toggle switch must be on for it to charge, I thought I only needed to use it to excite alternator and could then shut the switch off.

 

[Jim.ME]

My bad, red wire from alternator goes to amp guage. Toggle switch must be on for it to charge, I thought I only needed to use it to excite alternator and could then shut the switch off.

Delco type uses the same terminal for exciting the alternator as the indicator light, so only needs momentary power to start the alternator charging. Denso uses separate terminal for excitation and the indicator light, so it needs switched power on the IG terminal when running. If you don't want to have to remember to turn that toggle on and off, add a normally open two terminal oil pressure switch (like a Standard brand PS 135) to excite the alternator in place of the toggle.

 

[docmirror]

My bad, red wire from alternator goes to amp guage. Toggle switch must be on for it to charge, I thought I only needed to use it to excite alternator and could then shut the switch off.

Depending on the type of alternator, that excite wire shouldn't need to remain on after the 12V has been applied to that terminal. Once energized, the field should remain powered without external excitation. If you leave the switch up all the time, it will likely overheat. You need a diode in that circuit so it doesn't backfeed. Or, just turn the switch off after the engine starts. Check your charge voltage, 12.7 or greater at idle, and 13.2 approx at 1500.

I didn't have a diode handy so I wired mine with a momentary contact button. I start the engine, push the button, the field excites and stays energized. That way, when I shut the tractor off, the field will collapse and I don't have to remember to turn the toggle switch off.