need different fluid than 303 for 9n

[kennytractor]

I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?

 

[Bruce (VA)]

See tips 3 and 4.

Ford now recommends UTF.

I use the UTF from TSC.
75 Tips

 

[Bob]

(quoted from post at 21:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?

I don't think you have anything whatsoever to worry about leaving that oil in your low tech, low speed, low HP, low pressure hydraulics tractor.

A FAR bigger issue is to keep transdraulic clean and moisture-free.

LOTS AND LOTS of these old machines run around with what appears to be chocolate milkshake in their transmissions and hydraulic system, and STILL function!

 

[Richard G.]

My local parts house sells old yellow metal safe 90 wt.
I think it is Warren or Coastal oil.
Works great in my 8N.
Richard in NW SC

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

303 is the wrong stuff and junk IMHO. I buy in bulk at NAPA and Tsc sells a Traveler brand that is about the same. The only reason I used to go to TSC -they are cheaper, last time I bought two jugs and they were both different shades and consistency. I switched to NAPA years ago after that. The Ford MC134-D oil is no longer made/supplied by CNH.

</center

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)​

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 19:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?

Kenny have you added a wet clutch pack or inboard wet brakes to your N? Unless you have, the only reason to change to UTF is to give yourself a warm feeling.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 22:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?

Preferences vary greatly.

The original Ford recommendation was mild EP gear oil, grade SAE 80 for winter use and grade SAE 90 for summer use. For all practical purposes that type of product no longer exists in today's market.

It wasn't long before Ford changed that recommendation in favor of a newer universal tractor transmission (UTTF) type oil. The Ford specification for this oil was M2C-134D. This type of oil is sold today under a lot of brand names and prices vary greatly. Some pricey examples are UDT from Kubota and HyGard From John Deere. Many people choose to go with a less expensive generic product from the big box stores. TSC sells their Traveller Premium house brand UTTF in 5 gallon pails for around $35 and it is very popular. Similar products can be found at Walmart, NAPA, Costco, Sam's, Advance Auto, etc. Shop the sales for the best price.

Another option for N series tractors is a modern SAE 80W90 GL5 gear oil. Excellent all season gear lube but not as good a hydraulic fluid in cold weather as the UTTF. Also a bit pricey.

Any of these oils are higher quality and better transhydraulic fluids than the bottom of the barrel 303 products.

And if you are a big believer of oil myths you can use a plain mineral oil. This type of oil is sold as SAE 90 GL1 gear oil and lacks the EP additives that provide wear protection in spiral bevel final drives. API classifies it as suitable for use in manual transmissions and lightly loaded final drives. Never recommended by Ford and only used briefly by them during wartime rationing of EP gear oils.

TOH

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 07:19:53 10/09/19)

(quoted from post at 19:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?

Kenny have you added a wet clutch pack or inboard wet brakes to your N? Unless you have, the only reason to change to UTF is to give yourself a warm feeling.

I would suggest that replacing a hydraulic oil that has a viscosity index of 60 or less with one that has a VI of 140+ gets you more than a warm feeling. The label on most 303 products is quite clear: "Not suitable for use at temperatures below freezing." If gellated it isnt even an effective gear oil.

TOH

 

[Ultradog MN]

Reread Bob and Showcrop's posts.
And don't worry about this anymore.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" And don't worry about this anymore. "

Despite the fact that 303 is not suitable for use below 32*?

 

[Bruce (VA)]

I'm on a Model A Ford board where oil posts are prohibited. That's because they all follow the same pattern:

ANSWER: modern technology has provided superior products that will perform much better than what was used 90 years ago.

RESPONSE: I do not care what tests, experience, petroleum engineers or even common sense says, I will only use what was available when the tractor was new. Do not confuse me with facts.

It's like arguing religion or politics with some people.

Here is one article you might find interesting:

https://www.tractorlife.com/2018/06/19/perilously-obsolete-the-dangers-of-303-tractor-hydraulic-fluids/

There are plenty more articles re the benefits of UTF over common gear oil. Google is your friend.
75 Tips

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 07:37:49 10/09/19)

(quoted from post at 22:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?

...

And if you are a big believer of oil myths you can use a plain mineral oil. This type of oil is sold as SAE 90 GL1 gear oil and lacks the EP additives that provide wear protection in spiral bevel final drives. [b:23389fccde]API classifies it as suitable for use in manual transmissions [color=red:23389fccde]and lightly loaded final drives.[/color:23389fccde][/b:23389fccde] Never recommended by Ford and only used briefly by them during wartime rationing of EP gear oils.

TOH

Strike that part in red. I just refreshed my memory of the API service descriptions and they limit GL1 service to manual transmissions but exclude final drives. GL3 level performance is specified for spiral/bevel final drives operating at mild to moderate speeds and loads and GL5 for low speed/high torque applications.

TOH

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 09:03:24 10/09/19) I'm on a Model A Ford board where oil posts are prohibited. That's because they all follow the same pattern:

ANSWER: modern technology has provided superior products that will perform much better than what was used 90 years ago.

RESPONSE: I do not care what tests, experience, petroleum engineers or even common sense says, I will only use what was available when the tractor was new. Do not confuse me with facts.

It's like arguing religion or politics with some people.

Here is one article you might find interesting:

https://www.tractorlife.com/2018/06/19/perilously-obsolete-the-dangers-of-303-tractor-hydraulic-fluids/

There are plenty more articles re the benefits of UTF over common gear oil. Google is your friend.
75 Tips

I would wager you can fill the sumps of an N-series with 5 gallons of really nasty used engine oil and for most people it will run and operate fine for a very long time. Does not mean that is a good choice or that it does not harm the tractor vis-a-vis a proper lubricant. It's your tractor and what you put in it is your choice but it quite literally pays to understand the benefits and deficiencies of what you are using.

As for some of the worst of the 303 products, Smitty's and Rural King are about to get their day in court. If you have the patience to wade through the verbiage there are some interesting allegations as to the Missouri Department of Agriculture's tested results of their products starting on page 15 of the complaint:

Wurth vs. Smittys et. al.

IMO Super S and CAM2 303 really are deceptively marketed bottom of the barrel lubricants. My guess is they settle out of court for limited damages and agree to revise their labeling.

TOH

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Some folks have no concept of long term wear. Or just don't care.

The assumption is that the tractor did not seize up and stop dead 10 minutes after adding that "line flush" oil, that all is good.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I was thinking in terms of some of the stuff we've drained out of these things.
Half water, drain oil, bacon grease, lime Jello and a the drainings from a spitoon.
And they still lasted for 75 years.

 

[pinball]

Do you know the complaint was they didn't put on there labels it was to be used on tractors before 1975. I have used it on all my tractors. never had a problem. there new 303 oil does have the date on them. orchelns farm and home sells a lot of it.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 17:03:54 10/09/19) Do you know the complaint was they didn't put on there labels it was to be used on tractors before 1975. I have used it on all my tractors. never had a problem. there new 303 oil does have the date on them. orchelns farm and home sells a lot of it.

That is just one part of the legal complaint. They also made a lot of performance/blending claims that they knew (or should have known) to be untrue and/or misleading. In other words they knowingly lied about the quality of the product. For example:[list:1a87c0a104][*:1a87c0a104][i:1a87c0a104]"Provides extreme pressure and anti-wear protection for tractor transmission, axles and hydraulic pump"[/i:1a87c0a104] In actuality the treat rate on EP additives is about half of what industry standards call for. [*:1a87c0a104][i:1a87c0a104]"Protects against rust and corrosion"[/i:1a87c0a104] Detergent and rust inhibitor treat rates are similarly low[*:1a87c0a104][i:1a87c0a104]Controlled frictional characteristics permit the wet brakes to hold properly, reduces brake chatter and provides for smooth engagement of power take-off (PTO) clutches."[/i:1a87c0a104] A total fabrication. It is demonstrably unsuitable for use with most wet brakes or clutches and actual equipment damage has resulted fromits use.[/list:u:1a87c0a104] VOA reveals the presence of line wash, waste oils, and contaminants. If quality base oils are used it is in minuscule proportions. The incredibly low VI shown on the data sheet alone tells you that. Industry standrard testing shows the product does not even come close to matching the physical/chemical properties (notice I did not say OEM specifications) of a good quality generic (notice I did not say premium) UTTF. Its a free country and you can certainly use whatever you want but please understand why the price of the 303 fluids is what it is. In the near term the 303 is not going to kill an N-series or any of the older machines but it is far short of the short term performance and long term wear protection you can get in those machines for another $10/pail. JMO but I think the hard facts back it up.

TOH

 

[gears]

Dang it you guys, now I'm being guilt-ed into actually using the cheap 303 I bought 2 yrs ago as the "Flush oil" I had bought it for.... Put it in a new to me basket case 3400 and got everything working right. I had meant to drain it and replace with a better fluid (premium UTF), 34hrs on the machine now and haven't done it.

I noticed the 9N with fresh 90wt from TSC is doing well but in winter it is SLOOOOOOOOW to warm up enough to be usable. Maybe it'll get some premium UTTF too.

Thanks for condensing the facts for us TOH, I didn't even need to call you this time.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 06:39:31 10/10/19) Dang it you guys, now I'm being guilt-ed into actually using the cheap 303 I bought 2 yrs ago as the "Flush oil" I had bought it for.... Put it in a new to me basket case 3400 and got everything working right. I had meant to drain it and replace with a better fluid (premium UTF), 34hrs on the machine now and haven't done it.

I noticed the 9N with fresh 90wt from TSC is doing well but in winter it is SLOOOOOOOOW to warm up enough to be usable. Maybe it'll get some premium UTTF too.

Thanks for condensing the facts for us TOH, I didn't even need to call you this time.

Gears, as long as you keep working that 9N hard for 4-5 hours at least once a month you should be able to keep your UTF from loading up with moisture and doing damage.

 

[gears]

Yeah, the 9n only runs about 1/2hr at a time once a week or so. The 3400 is typically 20 minutes every few weeks.

I use them hauling firewood &amp; dirt.

Last night the boys and I moved a batch of Cherry from the neigbor's fieldtreeline to our property to split later.

 

[Kid Shileen]

I use 134d and don?t give it a second thought.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 09:46:27 10/10/19) Yeah, the 9n only runs about 1/2hr at a time once a week or so. The 3400 is typically 20 minutes every few weeks.

I use them hauling firewood &amp; dirt.

Last night the boys and I moved a batch of Cherry from the neigbor's fieldtreeline to our property to split later.

Gears, does the hydraulic oil get heated up good during that half hour?

 

[gears]

I doubt it, just digging some dirt or dragging wagons of firewood around. Haven't checked its condition since I flushed it and rebuilt the pump 2 yrs ago (maybe 4....) I'm putting checking it on this fall's to-do list.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 19:29:37 10/10/19) I doubt it, just digging some dirt or dragging wagons of firewood around. Haven't checked its condition since I flushed it and rebuilt the pump 2 yrs ago (maybe 4....) I'm putting checking it on this fall's to-do list.

Gears, if you really feel the need to use UTF and you aren't using the tractor enough to get it hot enough to clear the moisture out you can always change it whenever it gets milky. Check it frequently and don't forget to flush before refilling.