Need help identifying this loader on my 2N.

[Ez-Duzit]

Hello All,

new to the forum and new to tractor ownership. I recently purchased this 1946 2N tractor and have been going through it.

The pin on loader bucket needs to be replaced or rebuilt but I am having a very difficult time trying to find a replacement bucket. Does anyone know what type of loader this is and where I might find a bucket that would match this configuration? The current bucket seems to be a kubota that has been modified with some poor welds. Also the single dump cylinder looks to be a tractor supply Co generic replacement that was too short and ripped away from the bucket, then it was re-welded and the weld is also ripping away. I was thinking to replace the bucket with something that hopefully the side pins would line up even if I needed to bring it to a shop to weld the center dump cylinder correctly with the right reach, maybe even replace the center dump cylinder with the correct reach.

What is your good people recommendation in this case?

BR,
EZ

 

[Royse]

Welcome to the forum EZ.
The frame on your loader looks a lot like the Kelley brand on my
Jubilee, but the lift arms do not, except at the front pivots.
Very possibly modified over the years, as mine has been.

Buckets are generally expensive. If there's nothing else wrong
with yours, I'd have it modified, yet again, to fit correctly.
If you don't have a welder and skills, pay to have it done.

Another thought, if that bucket is too wide for your use, maybe it
can be split in the center and moved in to fit properly on the arms.
That would be an expensive, and possibly, weakening endeavor though.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 22:52:53 10/02/17) Hello All,

new to the forum and new to tractor ownership. I recently purchased this 1946 2N tractor and have been going through it.

The pin on loader bucket needs to be replaced or rebuilt but I am having a very difficult time trying to find a replacement bucket. Does anyone know what type of loader this is and where I might find a bucket that would match this configuration? The current bucket seems to be a kubota that has been modified with some poor welds. Also the single dump cylinder looks to be a tractor supply Co generic replacement that was too short and ripped away from the bucket, then it was re-welded and the weld is also ripping away. I was thinking to replace the bucket with something that hopefully the side pins would line up even if I needed to bring it to a shop to weld the center dump cylinder correctly with the right reach, maybe even replace the center dump cylinder with the correct reach.

What is your good people recommendation in this case?

BR,
EZ

As Royse said buckets are pricey and I think it's doubtful you will find anything that actually fits that loader. I'd stick with the rather nice bucket you have.

You might want to consider widening the boom to fit the brackets on the bucket rather than modifying the bucket. Looks like that would be pretty easy and doesn't require a lot of skill. Just weld another length of rectangular tube down the outside of both boom arms. You may need a few spacers between the pieces to get it exactly right but that would still be very stout. It would also allow you to use two bucket cylinders mounted along the widened boom using the OEM bucket brackets rather than adding a center one. If you can not do that work yourself a welding shop should be able to do all the fabrication and welding for a "reasonable" price but around here it would not be "cheap". I'd guesstimate several hundred dollars.

As far as the bucket cylinders go I just bought two new generic loader cylinders for a similar size Kubota loader - cost delivered to my doorstep was ~$200.

TOH

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 22:52:53 10/02/17) Hello All,

new to the forum and new to tractor ownership. I recently purchased this 1946 2N tractor and have been going through it.

The pin on loader bucket needs to be replaced or rebuilt but I am having a very difficult time trying to find a replacement bucket. Does anyone know what type of loader this is and where I might find a bucket that would match this configuration? The current bucket seems to be a kubota that has been modified with some poor welds. Also the single dump cylinder looks to be a tractor supply Co generic replacement that was too short and ripped away from the bucket, then it was re-welded and the weld is also ripping away.

Here is a picture of how your Kubota bucket was meant to be mounted. The boom pins to the bottom holes in the brackets and the dump cylinders pin to the upper holes. If you decide to modify the boom on your loader to fit teh OEM brackets on the bucket make sure there is clearance for the brackets to roll back along the sides of the boom. When the bucket is fully rolled back the cylinder pin is nearly touching the top of the boom.

TOH

 

[Ez-Duzit]

I like the idea of widening the boom to fit a standard Kubota bucket. That would take more work up front but might be a better long term solution.

I think I have to decide if I just want to get what's there patched up and good enough for the cheaper cost, or if I want to make it a bigger project and expand the boom, locate the cylinder mounts, and rebuild the Kubota style dump configuration. This would let me use more readily available Kubota pin on connections.

Maybe what I will do is price out the two options and then make my decision from there.

TOH, are you allowed to share with me where you got your replacement cylinders from? Was that $200 each or for the pair?

The other consideration nagging in the background is my oil pressure is barely above 20 psi, then it will even drop down to 12 PSI at slow idle after running a long time. I suspect the engine is tired. This is just after an oil change of 10w/40. I know it's a long shot, but is there any way that this could be as simple as an oil pump rebuild or is that highly unlikely with these engines?

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 13:55:02 10/03/17) I like the idea of widening the boom to fit a standard Kubota bucket. That would take more work up front but might be a better long term solution.

I think I have to decide if I just want to get what's there patched up and good enough for the cheaper cost, or if I want to make it a bigger project and expand the boom, locate the cylinder mounts, and rebuild the Kubota style dump configuration. This would let me use more readily available Kubota pin on connections.

Maybe what I will do is price out the two options and then make my decision from there.

TOH, are you allowed to share with me where you got your replacement cylinders from? Was that $200 each or for the pair?

The other consideration nagging in the background is my oil pressure is barely above 20 psi, then it will even drop down to 12 PSI at slow idle after running a long time. I suspect the engine is tired. This is just after an oil change of 10w/40. I know it's a long shot, but is there any way that this could be as simple as an oil pump rebuild or is that highly unlikely with these engines?

The cylinders were purchased from Surplus Center - ~$200 for the pair:

Wolverine Loader Cylinders

If you can weld or know a friend that can do it for you widening the boom is easy and cheap. I can weld and if it were mine that is what I would do.

Your oil pressure is a bit low but not horrible and I wouldn't tear into that engine unless I had to. Hot oil pressure of 20 PSI @1500 RPM is pretty decent for an old tractor and well within servicable limits.

TOH

 

[Ez-Duzit]

Unfortunately, welding is not an art that I have had the opportunity to practice and I'm afraid I would butcher it if I tried. I will have to pay for this.I did some measuring and found the existing pin mounts are 2 7/8" wide, and the standard Kubota pin mounts appear to be 2 3/8" making it impossible to reuse the existing mounts. I started thinking it would be great if I could find a junk Kubota loader I could cut the end of the booms off and reuse. Is it difficult to custom up new mounts? How would you guys do this?

 

[Caryc]

Just curious. How do you work that backhoe on a 2N? Are the controls in front of the seat or in back? Do you have to look over your shoulder? Does the seat swivel around?

 

[Ez-Duzit]

There is a separate seat for the backhoe. It's a John deere 7 so if you do a google image search for it you can see how it is set up.

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 12:34:40 10/04/17)
There is a separate seat for the backhoe. It's a John deere 7 so if you do a google image search for it you can see how it is set up.

Thanks, I see now but, one more question. Can you access the 2N's throttle from that seat?

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 12:43:48 10/04/17) Unfortunately, welding is not an art that I have had the opportunity to practice and I'm afraid I would butcher it if I tried. I will have to pay for this.I did some measuring and found the existing pin mounts are 2 7/8" wide, and the standard Kubota pin mounts appear to be 2 3/8" making it impossible to reuse the existing mounts. I started thinking it would be great if I could find a junk Kubota loader I could cut the end of the booms off and reuse. Is it difficult to custom up new mounts? How would you guys do this?

What am I missing here? The outside of the boom is already fully inside of the Kubota brackets.

So purchase 6 feet of 2x2x.250 wall rectangular tubing ($45), cut it in half, and weld one piece to the OUTSIDE of each arm on the boom on your loader. Let the ends of the tube extend ~10" forward of the end of the boom. The tube extension becomes the pin on point for the bucket. You will likely need to weld a couple short pieces of steel flat between the boom and the tube to make the spacing on the extensions match the spacing on the bucket brackets. That's an easy welding job that would make a good first project for a someone wanting to learn to weld. :idea: If not it would be a quick and easy job for a professional.

At that point you have the lower pin on points for the bucket covered. All that remains is to deal with the bucket cylinder. I would use two - one on each of the tube extensions exactly like the Kubota loader I pictured. That would require welding mounting ears for the cylinders to each of the two extensions. Again - an easy novice project or piece of cake for a pro.

TOH

 

[W_B]

Good luck with it but I can't help but feel this is a bit overkill on a 2N, a tractor that was never designed for a loader, let alone a backhoe. I know there were units made aftermarket that were available back in the day, I've seen plenty of them. I just wonder when something is going to break on either end of the tractor, let alone the difficulty in steering the beast. I know, I know, I've seen all the arguments here about using them successfully but it still seems to be a bad idea. If doing some serious work it would be better to get something that was designed as a TLB. Something like an old purpose built Case or Massey TLB and work on it and have a real machine to use. Lanse (Lance?) who posts on these forums and does YouTube vids (ChuckE2009) is doing this, running into lots of issues but is keeping at it, to the point it runs now. Otherwise, if just puttering around the 2N should be fun to play with, and better than a wheel barrow and shovel until one is ready to move up.

 

[Ez-Duzit]

I don't think your missing anything TOH, other then how amateur I actually am at tractor ownership. Sorry for the hand holding required.

The square tubing seems straight forward enough, I was hoping to reuse the actual mount that the pins slide through at the end of the tubing, but they are too wide to simply cut off the old arms and re attach to the new extensions. Are these mounts easy to build? I guess you just need round tubing / bushings with the correct ID and weld these to the proper drilled hole diameter in the square tubing to receive the pin? Should the mount area's be beefed up a bit and add a zerk fitting somehow? Is there off the shelf kits for that? Are these tolerance even this critical or am I making this harder then it should be (I have a tendency to overthink some things sometime).

Finally, as I was researching this, I found that the Kubota BX24 compact tractor seems to have the same setup as mine. I'm wondering if one of the PO for my tractor fabricated to match this tractor? Would be nice to get dimensions of the arm booms and pin mounts just to see. Then all I would need is a BX series bucket. Although I understand that it could end up costing more then just the fab work for the existing bucket.

 

[Ez-Duzit]

"Otherwise, if just puttering around the 2N should be fun to play with, and better than a wheel barrow and shovel until one is ready to move up."

Hi W_B,

I work in IT as my real job and have been for the past 18 years. This is not a business venture for me. It's a toy, maybe a hobby. I worked in construction in a past life on a framing crew and at a full service garage before that. I tinker with engines, like motorcycles and woodworking. I haven't done any welding but would like to eventually (don't have any equipment for it). I have the intention to build a pole barn workshop to put my wood working equipment in (and get it out of my basement) as well as a mechanic bay for tinkering. I also need to build a garage to get my cars out of the snow in the winter. The thought was, this little tractor set up could help me achieve those goals and I can take my time with the project instead of renting equipment and being "under the gun".

I most likely will sell the tractor after my goals are done, or not. For now, I will pick away on what the problem issues are with this tractor. So far, I have rebuilt the carb and got it tuned very well. Next on the list is replace the leaking radiator which is already on order and on it's way to my house. I will eventually convert to 12 volt and redo the wiring harness (which I will make myself, most likely) and probably replace the points with an electronic ignition. All those areas, I'm very comfortable doing on my own and need no help.

Welding for a new loader bucket configuration is outside my comfort zone. That is why I am taking my time on finding the best way forward. I like to leave things in better shape then when I got them and typically the person who purchases from me benefits, but I don't mind. And who knows, maybe I find I like having a tractor and I decide to sell and upgrade. Time will tell.

Thanks for your roll in my learning and hope this gives some insight into how I process.

BR,
EZ.

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 07:34:59 10/05/17)
Good luck with it but I can't help but feel this is a bit overkill on a 2N, a tractor that was never designed for a loader, let alone a backhoe. I know there were units made aftermarket that were available back in the day, I've seen plenty of them. I just wonder when something is going to break on either end of the tractor, let alone the difficulty in steering the beast. I know, I know, I've seen all the arguments here about using them successfully but it still seems to be a bad idea. If doing some serious work it would be better to get something that was designed as a TLB. Something like an old purpose built Case or Massey TLB and work on it and have a real machine to use. Lanse (Lance?) who posts on these forums and does YouTube vids (ChuckE2009) is doing this, running into lots of issues but is keeping at it, to the point it runs now. Otherwise, if just puttering around the 2N should be fun to play with, and better than a wheel barrow and shovel until one is ready to move up.

My 8N wasn't designed for a loader either but it has a heavy Davis loader on it. I've used it sensibly for ten years repairing my dirt roads with no problem.

About a year ago I manage to buy a MF202 with a loader on it. The MF202 has a heavy front end built for a loader so the 8N loader won't be used any more.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 10:39:54 10/05/17) I don't think your missing anything TOH, other then how amateur I actually am at tractor ownership. Sorry for the hand holding required.

The square tubing seems straight forward enough, I was hoping to reuse the actual mount that the pins slide through at the end of the tubing, but they are too wide to simply cut off the old arms and re attach to the new extensions. Are these mounts easy to build? I guess you just need round tubing / bushings with the correct ID and weld these to the proper drilled hole diameter in the square tubing to receive the pin? Should the mount area's be beefed up a bit and add a zerk fitting somehow? Is there off the shelf kits for that? Are these tolerance even this critical or am I making this harder then it should be (I have a tendency to overthink some things sometime).

Finally, as I was researching this, I found that the Kubota BX24 compact tractor seems to have the same setup as mine. I'm wondering if one of the PO for my tractor fabricated to match this tractor? Would be nice to get dimensions of the arm booms and pin mounts just to see. Then all I would need is a BX series bucket. Although I understand that it could end up costing more then just the fab work for the existing bucket.

A BX bucket is pretty small and I would want something a little larger but that's your call. Just remember that the smaller the bucket the less material you move per trip and trips with that 2N will be laborious and time consuming ;-)

A piece of round tubing welded into the end of the extensions would suffice. If you like overkill a piece of solid steel welded inside the square tube and drilled for the pin and a zerk would be close to what Kubota does.

Or you could just buy a nice older used Kubota with a loader and sell the Ford. That's what I did except I forgot to sell the Ford :roll:

TOH