Neighboors....RANT RANT RANT

[Sparktrician]

I have a neighboor, who happens to be my uncle of sorts, (aunts husband) they have horses. They (like everyone else) dont like the price of hay in our area this year SW ohio. He (uncle) seems to think that since we farm, we should sell them hay for less than our cost per bale. My point of view is that his horses feed needs are not my problem. He does help us stack hay occasionally, I dont mind helping out, but, I dont want to go in the hole for his horses. He keeps asking when he can get hay, and that he can buy else where for 3.00 a bale. I told him my cost is 4+ a bale, so whatever hay he dosent want for $3, I will buy myself (if it is decent stuff) I dont know how people are selling hay for $3 a bale. Start adding Land+Fuel+Fertilizer+Tractor+Rake+tedder+baler+discbine+wagons+grease+upkeep=$4.00 per bale give or take. 20% profit (at best) $5.00 per bale. Oh yeah, no labor yet. Dont want to add that....I would loose my mind....People dont understand what all it takes to bale hay.... probobaly $90,000.00 in equipment(tractor x3, discbine, teder, rake X2, square baler, round baler, hay wagons, skid steer) and i should work for peanuts, or less peanuts than i already do...AAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!! I feel better now.

 

[Ray]

I've got about 5 acres of nice grass that several people have asked me to let them bale.
One guy wants to bale it for half and i have to sell the other half.One guy wants to pay in the fall,one neighbor owes a couple people for last years hay yet,so i'll probably just mow it down and not have to put up with people.

 

[RobMD]

Butcher it up with a rotary!

 

[RusselAZ]

I know the feeling. People don't know what it cost to keep the doors open on a vehicle repair facility either.

 

[S.Crum]

I have about 8 acres of nice clean mix. Every year the same local guy takes it off. Last week he took 24 large round bales. I let him have it for the taking as I have for the last 21 years. Keeps the field managed very nicely. New neighbor across the road has a couple "hay burners". I stopped his speil short about the cost of hay and horse feed by telling him if he had any designs on that hay, he would have to work out a deal with Tom, the guy who does all the work. I spect that hay will go about $50-$60 a bale this year.

 

[Spook]

How much is the following worth?

1) Family peace and goodwill. Ya never want to
be on Jerry Springer.

2) Being a good neighbor?

3) And maybe just ask him to help you some more.
Kinda hard to get labor sometimes?

4) As long as he isn't asking for a huge amount,
I would give a relative a break.

I would being a relative, a neighbor, and a helper would be worth $1 a bale. At least.

My 2c.

 

[Anonymous-0]

$90,000 dollars in equipment to bale hay? Sounds like the guys that think they need $90,000 dollars worth of equipment to start a lawn mowning business. New F-350 diesel pickup, two new toro z masters, new toro walk behind, new implement trailer, 4 new stihl weedwackers, 4wd JD utility tractor with bucket. My dad has baled tens of thousands of bales with a Farmall H and a IH baler. They are both still out in the barn. Total combined value about $1500 bucks. Oh, and the $200 dollar hay wagons and sickle bar mower. I agree inputs are very expensive but a guy can do a whole lot of baling for a lot less money if he wants to.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Tell him if he can find it for $3.00 to buy it. If people can afford to have horses, they have to know it costs a lot to keep them and feed them. Dave

 

[Anonymous-0]

Just to add a little variety to the soup.......
I just bought beautiful 1st cut pasture mixed hay for $1.80 a bale (40 lb +/-) and will buy 5ft rolls (800 lb +/-) for $30 stored under roof and I pick up as needed. Makes no difference if I'm scattering it on the lawn, feeding rabbits, sheep, or those dreaded horses, the price is the same.
The farmers I buy from have to make a living also and THEY set the price and offer a discount on top of that for qty. I never took advantage of it because the storage is a load off.
Now, I'm in Germany (little smaller than Texas). Fuel costs about $10 a gallon here. Labor at the local tractor garage is about $100 an hour and machines/parts are rediculous (ie. a Stihl MS250 saw that you folks pay less that $300 for costs about $800). Sales tax is also 19%.

Some of you folks (or your neighbors) probably have corn fields bigger than the town I live in.

If folks here can sell hay at these prices stay afloat, what makes it so expensive for you folks to process and sell the same product? Not trying to start an argument, just genuinely curious. I think a lot of it is proximity of the source. But how much of it is "hell, if they have horses, they can afford it" or "don't complain about the cost of gas you're putting in your speed boat"?

No bashing, just curious.

Dave

 

[slim]

Just to give you a little perspective, your 40 lb bale seems to be very light. What we put up was in the neighborhood of 75 lbs. So 40 lbs at $1.80 versus 75 at $4.00 isn't all that different.

slim

 

[jose bagge]

Ya know, I get the impression that you as well as a lot of the other dirt farmers on this board have a real problem with the fact that this hay is bought for HORSES....if it was being fed to guinea pigs, alpacas, or elephants you'd have less of a problem with it. What if this was show cattle or show goats?
I think a good mare kicked a bunch of you in the a$$ when you were young and created a phobia. Horses are LIVESTOCK just like show cattle. We make a living (at least partially) sellin' 'em, so it's not a matter of this " well, if they can afford horses" BS.
YOUR hobby/business is is gas powered, and an inordinate amount of time on this board is spent complaining about gas prices. THEIR hobby/ business is hay powered- why can't they do the same? IN THIS CASE, YOU ARE THE ARABS!

 

[Tradititonal Farmer]

Yea I have a couple of parasite realatives like that and I do NOT do business deals with them period.On the other hand I have a couple that we help each other out all the time.Realatives are just like everyone else some good-some bad.Tell him to go buy the $3 hay.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Exactly right the man that OWNS the hay sets the PRICE on the hay.The customers can take it or leave it.If the customer thinks hay can be made so cheap then they need to get into the hay business.

 

[dhermesc]

Imagine that, another horse guy complaining about the high cost of his hobby. Evokes as much sympathy as I give the guy complaining about the high cost of filling his speed boat with gas before he goes to the lake.

 

[Tradititonal Farmer]

Of course hay sellers charge horse owners more because horse owners are the pickest and biggest pain in the neck to deal with.Every hay seller I knows says the same thing.

 

[Keith in NW MO]

So your saying it his fault hay is percieved as high because he doesnt run junk. Everyone loves a farmer as long as he has old junkie equipment and doesnt make enough to cover costs. My kids need shoes, gas money, insurance, food and everything your kids need. Ya well your Dad and H just aswell get rich doing it, if you baled tens of thousands of bales you probably got most of the profit around still. Tens of thousands of bales what over 50 years. Ya, do more with less equipment whats your time worth? What do you make per hour? Personally I deal with Horse people all the time, some can be a pain if you let them but most I deal with are fine. Its all just business dont take it personal either way. The days of some old farmer giving hay away are long gone unless you know of one still willing to break his back to provide you a $2 bale of hay.
Ferilizer replacement runs well over $1 per small square. If you say you didnt fertilze that fine one year but you cant keep doing that, you have to replace sooner or later.
Remember if you buy hay, quality matters. Anyone can bale a bale but it takes a professional to put up quality hay.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Tell him he better grab that $3.00 hay. it just went to $15.00 a bale around here. Jer

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 05:00:40 06/19/08) Just to give you a little perspective, your 40 lb bale seems to be very light. What we put up was in the neighborhood of 75 lbs. So 40 lbs at $1.80 versus 75 at $4.00 isn't all that different.

slim

How do you get so much weight in the same size bale? Is it the crimpers and conditioners that let you pack in more? The stuff I get is just mowed and turned. Both use American balers and put out a bale about 16" wide and 32-36" long. Maybe I'm off on the weight at 40 lb, I'll have to check.
Being honest though..... I'm glad they don't weigh 70 lbs.


Dave

 

[RodinNS]

Ahh, come on now. You know they're experts.....
I can't count how many I've watched sort through a pile of hay that all came from the same field, and all looked mostly alike... sorting out this one, and that one... and that one was no good, and this one is no good, and on and on... and still, uniformly come out with the poorest bales in the lot.
When I have time, it's entertaining. When I don't I'm as apt to tell them to F***off.
I haul a fair bit into the farm store and watch quite a few of these people carry on at that like they're conneseurs or something. Fricken horse will eat it anyway, regardless of what they bring home since it's better than the 2x4's in the stall.
The easiest horsey types I've dealt with are the ones that keep horses as a business. A certain quality they look for perhaps, but at least they know what good hay is...

Rod

 

[Anonymous-0]

That $15.00 hay is square bales about 100 lbs.

 

[rhouston]

The balers are adjustable. When I was a kid tossing bales for the neighbors they were 60 lbs.

 

[patiolant]

Also depends on the moisture content of the hay. I can't make a bale heavier than 45-50 pounds if the grass is bone dry in the middle of a hot day no matter how much the tension is cranked up. But the same grass will make a bale a bale at least twice the weight with a lower tension setting if there is a good dew on it in the morning. It just packs tighter then.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Horses are not the same as cattle. They are not raised for food. Most people who make their living with horses are more ranchers than farmers and a lot just do it as more of a hobby. If they were farmers, they'd make their own bales. The seller sets the price no matter what. If he sets the price too high, he won't sell many bales but it's still his choice. Some friends, let alone relatives, figure you should just give it to them for nothing or next to nothing. Not all horse people are difficult to deal with. It's still supply and demand though. Dave

 

[TractormanNC]

Well said Keith, especially the part about fertilizer.

 

[dangerdoc]

I usually burn mine off in the spring rather than hassle with somebody about baling.

With propane over $2.00 and my dealer telling me it will be $2.50 this winter, I'm looking at all of those BTUs growing in the field differently. I really wish I had an old JD cuber. I'd cube all my grass and stuff them in my stove during the winter.

 

[Greasey Hand]

mam im glad thats done, over hay!!

 

[Keith in NW MO]

I think you answered your own question. It would take 5.5 bales to buy one gallon of fuel. 55 squares to pay for one hour of repair work or 444.5 bales to buy the Stihl chainsaw to cut up the tree limbs around the hay field. Lets run down some basic costs if any are too high tell me why and we can adjust I will even use a fairly high yield. Lets call the yield 90 squares per acre weighing 50 pounds. Fertilizer 50-30-50 would be $92 per acre, the fuel 11 cents and twine 9 cents per bale, if you go wire around 25 cents per bale. If you had to hire a crew to pick-up/stackthat runs 50 cents per bale.
I'm at $1.72 per bale without wear on equipment or labor for operator or any profit or even land costs. How about insurance and other little variables.
So you tell me how they do it?
I just dont get it.
We can raise the yield if you like and lower the costs. You could skip the fertilizer but we would have to lower the yield alot and you couldnt do that more than every other year. The fuel I figured at our low price vs. $10 per gallon.

 

[Anonymous-0]

We have all be conditioned (no pun intended.....) to believe we need nice shiney, new equipment to do ANYTHING. Some people just can't understand the concept of what your (and their.....) dad did. Good grass hay is a lot cheaper to maintain and put up then most are willing to believe.
It's more of a comentary on society, then anything to do with hay.

 

[Sparktrician]

Well, he (uncle) went and got his $3.oo hay today. As i expected, wasnt much. Heavy bales, they will mold. Baled w/ junk baler, or really out of adjustment. Offered to buy my hay for 3.00, I said no. To quote my uncle..."I like the 3.00 hay, but yours looks alot better. your bales are right, they are not all bowed up, and your hay is curred." NO SH!T!!!

As far as Mr. Josse Bagge, you dont know me, or what im about. Im about running a buisness, actually 2 of them. My wife and mother in law have horses. I dont care for horses, but have nothing against those who do, UNTIL, they think it my job to supply them w/ hay for little of nothing. Most of our hay goes to horses. Do i think it goofey what people spend on horses? YES. Do I b!tch about it? as long as they dont give me headache, NO.

 

[tn terry t]

(quoted from post at 08:01:34 06/19/08) Ya know, I get the impression that you as well as a lot of the other dirt farmers on this board have a real problem with the fact that this hay is bought for HORSES....if it was being fed to guinea pigs, alpacas, or elephants you'd have less of a problem with it. What if this was show cattle or show goats?
I think a good mare kicked a bunch of you in the a$$ when you were young and created a phobia. Horses are LIVESTOCK just like show cattle. We make a living (at least partially) sellin' 'em, so it's not a matter of this " well, if they can afford horses" BS.
YOUR hobby/business is is gas powered, and an inordinate amount of time on this board is spent complaining about gas prices. THEIR hobby/ business is hay powered- why can't they do the same? IN THIS CASE, YOU ARE THE ARABS!

welp i dont think its so much the horses these guys have a problem with . its the SORRY A horse owners :roll:

 

[jose bagge]

I didn't complain about the "high price of my hobby", I accept the cost of hay as a cost associated with the business- which by the way made a nice profit last year.
Again, your prejudice is showing! When all the horses are gone, who will you sell to? YOU can't eat your hay, and you can't run your vehicle on it!
Here's the deal I have with my hay guy- he tells me what he needs in dollars, I tell him what I need, he provides it and I pay him...mostly i deal with just one guy because he's not an A$$hole like the other hay guys in the area who shuck and jive and change prices every week and just generally act like pimps.
I her a lot of the same attitude here....

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Why dosen't your uncle plant his own Hay, or better yet, why doesen't he buy his hay off the field somewhere. Then hire the work done. A few guys around here do that. Cheaper this way. Pay so much an acre for it standing. and either do the work them selves, or hire it done.
My opinion any way

 

[cadet trooper]

I personnaly think the reason most of us dairy and cattle people get upset about horse people is that we baled hay for several head of either one i.e. when I was growing up we baled over 15000 bales of hay and straw for a herd of over 140 dairy cows and believe me I stacked behind the baler for every one plus 5000 bales of custom baling I had hay fever so I couldn't go in the mow which was pure torture and was 100 times worse. When we showed cows at the fair we always got the horse people sending thier pretty daughters and sisters over to talk us young bucks out of a bale or two and it worked (that really isn't the main reason) I guess what i'm really saying is you need to share in the labor of doing the hay thing if you did you really wouldn't be making the comments you did and at todays young labor market try rounding some young bucks for a 2000 bale day and even if you did for today let's try the next day. Fifteen years ago it was $6 @ hour per kid I have no idea what it is today.