New Holland 474 rollers vibrate

[Little Fred]

Rolls are gapped and timed. Not bad at idle but gets worse as pto speed increases and bad while mowing.
One thing that caught my attention today was the lateral movement of the arm on the right and left side of the top roll. It's enough to cause contact between the upper and lower rolls. Questioning if bushing and spacer are worn or even missing where arm is bolted to frame?

# 48,49, and 50 are the parts in question. The machine is mostly unknown to me. I do believe it was reconditioned at the dealer where the previous owner bought it. It was always a loud machine. I gained some by correctly shimming gap and timing, but there's still that vibration.

 

[Little Fred]

No bushing at all? Can a bushing wear enough to disappear? I'm wondering if it was not installed.

 

[farmersamm]

That looks to be internally threaded?? If so......where's the rest of the assembly?

Also looks as if it might be getting hot, or did you heat it to get it apart?

Your conditioner rollers will never be in the correct position if the hinge is bad. So, no matter how you shim it........there will still be some misalignment, and slop, in multiple axis.

Go to a website that sells the parts, and see if you can see an actual picture of the missing stuff. Determine whether the bushing is bronze, or some sort of Nylon. Nylon would be my guess. Don't see any provision for lubrication on the bearing boss.

Bear in mind...........if you let it go, it will egg the boss beyond the ability to hold a bushing tightly....although it might not be fatal.

 

[Little Fred]

That looks to be internally threaded?? If so......where's the rest of the assembly?

Also looks as if it might be getting hot, or did you heat it to get it apart?

Your conditioner rollers will never be in the correct position if the hinge is bad. So, no matter how you shim it........there will still be some misalignment, and slop, in multiple axis.

Go to a website that sells the parts, and see if you can see an actual picture of the missing stuff. Determine whether the bushing is bronze, or some sort of Nylon. Nylon would be my guess. Don't see any provision for lubrication on the bearing boss.

Bear in mind...........if you let it go, it will egg the boss beyond the ability to hold a bushing tightly....although it might not be fatal.

The arm is dropped down in the picture so I could access the bushing and spacer. A carriage bolt comes through from inside the mowers to fasten it.
I did not use heat, wondering if previous owner did to remove bushing. I've talked to a retired New Holland mechanic that said the assembly would seize up from rust. Newer versions had a grease fitting so I will drill and tap for one.
Here's the spacer:

 

[farmersamm]

If you get the bushing, it might be made to fit if the bore is a little loose.

One method is staking the bushing, or knurling it sorta. Take a center punch, and do dimples around the OD on the bushing. Enough to raise the metal. This can tighten things up.

Also..............in addition to using the punch, I highly recommend Loctite 660. It's a thicker viscosity retaining compound. I've used it extensively for various repairs. It will fill gaps very well............around ten to fifteen thou IIRC. The only downside is that you have to heat the part to around 400* to remove it later on.......which isn't too much trouble actually.

For tighter clearances, Loctite 609, and 680, are very good too.

If you worry that the retaining compounds are like threadlocker.............don't. They're an entirely different animal. Excellent shear, and tensile, strength. 609 is an industry standard for press fits.....it's that little bit of extra insurance. A press fit isn't as tight as most folks think. A bore that's been turned on a lathe is actually like a threaded assembly. Tiny threads, but threads all the same. The 609 fills the microscopic valleys.

I've never bought a second hand piece of equipment that didn't need some work. You can count on it. If you have the time, disconnect all of the drive chains, and spin the rollers, and other components, to see if your bearings are good. Should be smooth without any "rumble".

I personally like sickle machines. Especially a machine that will form a windrow. It cuts out the extra step of raking........which I've fully discovered is a PITA. I've always baled behind a swather, and will always prefer it. Less time in the field, and denser bales. It looks as if your machine has a full width crimper like my Hesston 1010. I love that machine for thick stemmed juicy crops like Hay Grazer. Really cuts dry time.

 

[Little Fred]

So I got the spacers and installed right side first, perfect I am thinking.
Start on left side and spacer won't fit in?! Then I see the old spacer is still in there, stuck fast and worn oblong, almost paper thin on the worst side. What's the best way to get it out, hopefully without removing arm from conditioner roll?

 

[farmersamm]

A die grinder with a carbide burr would work. It's a bit dicey because burrs have a tendency kick, and start to bounce around. Have to hold the grinder very tight, and just kiss the material. Let the burr do the work.

You might damage a small segment of the bore, but it won't be something that will ruin it. Remember.....a round bore will hold a part, even if a tiny bit of the circumference is damaged.

So anyways...........use the die grinder to cut a slot in the thinnest part of the bushing/spacer. This will remove the tension. Then a sharp screwdriver, or chisel, can be used to get under the bushing, and work it out. You're aiming to collapse the bushing.

The "slot" will simply be the area where the burr breaks through the bushing. If you're careful, it won't be a big gash. Just keep working the grinder in, and out, of the bore..........taking a little bit of material with each pass. A 1/4" burr is ideal, but a bit harder to control than a larger diameter burr. Just watch out for the grinder starting to bounce around inside the bore. It can snap the burr, and create flying shards. Wear good face shielding gear. Don't mount the burr in the grinder with stickout any longer than the absolute depth that you need to go. The more it sticks out, the less rigid it will be.

Balance this with removing the arm, then decide which is the best route for you.

If you don't want to use a burr(which is faster), you can use a small diameter mounted point to grind the slot in the thin spot. Slower, but a doggone sight safer.

 

[farmersamm]

A very sharp chisel might work, but have a tendency to skate unless you gouge into the bore material. But it's doable. Sharpen it to a thin point/wedge so it cuts easier. The points on most chisels have a fairly large angle for durability...........narrow the angle and it will cut better.

 

[caterpillar guy]

If worn almost through on one side I would cut the opposite just so it will collapse easier. If the new bushing is brass/bronze don't punch it it will break with the first hit. Punch the hole inside even if only near the ends of the hole and with the loctite it will hold like Farmersamm said. With lots of air a dye grinder will cut through that in no time so watch close.

 

[300guy]

Use a reciprocating saw with a fine metal blade and cut almost through the thick side of the bushing. You should be able to collapse the bushing with a center punch under the bushing.