New vs old engine oils..???????

[Anonymous-0]

Ok ...after watching a program last week on TV and reading the latest Turbo Diesel Regrestry, I am totally confused.
I have used Shell Rotella T 15-40W in every tractor engine and diesel pickup engine I have owned. Never had a problem and the stuff is easy to find.
Now as I understand it, the 15-40 CJ4 stuff is no good. There is a new blend of synthetic stuff coming out that is CI4 Plus. Of course I bet it will cost 4 times more too. Turbo Diesel Regristry rated it great stuff...while the old stuff is junk.
What gives? I know some of it is for cleaner air but why call an oil that has worked for years junk?
What the heck are we to do? Rotella T has been around a long time...I just can't believe its junk all at once.
I have a 656D dad had for years...6500 hrs on the meter and all we ever did to it was a valve job. It's still going strong. No leaks, seeps, or smoke (except when you first start it in the morning and that is fuel smoke).
What do you guys recommend? What do you use in your diesels?
Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Joe(TX)]

Shell is removing the additive Rotella that helps with wear on flat tappets. Most oils for gasoline engines have stopped using the additive already. Chevron Dello is still using the additive. Maybe someone will post a link to the previous post on the subject.

 

[buickanddeere]

Exceeds Emission System Requirements
AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Oil is a low sulfated ash formulation that exceeds the modern requirements for low emission quality diesel oil. It is compatible with all exhaust treatment devices and is designed to extend the service life of particulate filters.

 

[souNdguy]

the newer CI4 is for particulate filtering on new engines.. etc..

Soundguy

 

[Allan in NE]

Yeah,

Like the Soundguys says, ya don't have to fret about your existing equipment.

These old tractors will pretty much run on melted down chicken fat. Either in the tank or the crankcase. :>)

Allan

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks to all. I have even gone to the Shell web site and ask...but they have not answered.
Thanks for your time.

 

[Anonymous-0]

If they are removing the additive Rotella are they still calling it Rotella?

 

[Mike M]

How are we the public to know this ? is the bottle marked ?

 

[Joe(TX)]

Rotella is the brand name and not the additive.

 

[Jay (ND)]

Hogwash. In most cases, new specs carry forward old specs as well. The new oil is better for your machine, generally.

<a href="http://new.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/EngineOilGuide2006.pdf">nnalert the straight poop</a>

(pdf file - must have Adobe)

 

[Iraq Democrat]

The additive is Zinc and all flat tappet engines need it. What with the roller camshafts not needing the zinc and the zinc possibly clogging up catalytic converters AND the Fed Govt mandating that Cat. Converters last 150,000 miles, there goes the zinc. Yep, our older vehicles are going to be taken off the road by stealth, instead of just outlawed!!!

 

[Leland]

they sell the additive for older engines that you can add to the oil I know GM dealers stock it .

 

[John M]

Run it! It aint going to hurt a thing, or you can use the Delo, its pretty good. Amsoil, not me! I cant trust any oil that wont get an SAE certification, t osve the customers money....right!!!!!

 

[Ozarker]

That GM oil additive was discontinued earlier this year. If you can find any in a dealers parts department better grab it. Ozarker.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I think it was ZDDP that was removed from all SAE oils. As one reply below hit it. Since Amsoil isn't SAE they didn't have to remove ZDDP. Or any other brand that isn't SAE.

 

[Leland]

John there is nothing wrong with amsoil belive me I know of to many engines around here that lasted for decades on once a year oil changes with amsoil ,right now I am using mobil one since it was on sale synthetic is the way to go it beats dinosaur juice .

 

[John M]

I dont dought that there is nothing wrong with Amsoil.im sure it is good oil, but why dont they have a SAE rating? are they scared the SAE will find soemthing wrong, maybe I dont know, but if its that good, then why not get it.Someone said it was to save the customers money since the rating cost money, yea right, they have the money and in some cases, like you said, its more expensive. I am 100% convinced that any oil, dino or synthetic will do the job its intended for, but me personally I have yet to justify the extra expence of synthetic in ANYTHING I own.I have ran Mobil in my wifes car, no difference, and a couple of other "not so synthetic" synthetics in my truck, boat, lawnmower,tractror, boys go carts, and I still cant justify it. My wifes car has over 170000 miles on it, shes a home health nurse, and it doesnt use one drop of oil in between the 10000 mile oil changes(Yea I know, but 3000 miles would come in about 4 weeks), my truck may use a quart in 5000 mile, so I cant justify the expence of synthetic.If I had an engine that would, IMO, benefit from synthtic, I believe I would use the Mobil again, but I just cant justify it right now.

 

[Leland]

to get the sae certafaction it does cost a lot of money , but with synthetic you can double your oil drains just change the filter every 3000 mile . try it you won't be disapointed I use mobil one or penzoil depending on whats on sale at walmart

 

[buickanddeere]

Amsoil quality shows in the ball wear test and the rust test among others.
Amsoil, Mobile 1, and Royal Purple are the three most accessible real synthetics. Lubrication Engineers also make a premium product.
Apparently Shell makes a synthetic Rottella. It might be good but I havn't seen test results.
In average applications of modest weather temps over designed equipment and no short trip driving. A quality synthetic will show only slight improvement.
Extreme heat,cold or pressure and synthetic wins hands down.

 

[NC Wayne]

The new oils are formulated to handle the increased particulates seen in the newer engines with EGR and other emissions items. As far as it"s lubricating qualities it"s supposed to be as good it ever was. In fact because of the increased injection pressures there is more load on the tappets driving the injection pumps/unit in jectors than ever before. If the oil didn"t do as good or better than the old stuff then no engine would last. If you want your engine to last though, I"ve said it before on here and I"ll say it again....If you"ll check out Lubrication Engineers and get some of their oil your engine will last dang near forever.

 

[John M]

I do that anyway, so hows synthetic oil helping me there? Im not trying to start a big war on this, Im just stating my facts. I dont need synthteic, it hasnt proven itself to me, and you cant tell me Amsoil doesnt have engouh money to get the certifications! HOWEVER, if I were to use another synthtic, it would probably be valvolines Blue in my truck, and thats it.

 

[John M]

The only for true synthetics Im aware f are Moblie 1, Royal Purple, Amsoil, and Valvoline Blue. Rotella, as with most others, are still hydrocracked for the most part.

 

[Leland]

I deal with people like you at work all the time who are hard headed and it's hard to get them to vary or try new things ,but with synthetic I average around 10,000 miles between oil changes with synthetic and you can't do that with regular oils .And as far as that sae rating it really does not mean much anymore it's just an over priced recomendation ,and amsoil does fully support there products and I never had a problem running there oils in a madza I owned for 12 years that is still going strong today with over 400,000 miles on it and the guy that bought it still uses it for a daily driver .

 

[Anonymous-0]

I know a lubrication engineer that works for a company that supplies oil additive packages to several blenders. Last year he cautioned that the new diesel oil might not be as good for older engines. He mentioned that TBN (total base number) was going in the wrong direction because by doing so they improved particulate trap life (reduced plugging). Don't know if they were also decreased the anti-wear zinc-phosphate compound for the same reason. The bottom line is that he thought it might be a good idea to buy enough old blend oil to last a few years. I bought about 10 years worth.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Got a response finally from the Shell engineer. He said the new stuff is fine...in fact they were surprised to find it was better than they thought.
While I want to believe what he is saying, I also understand where his paycheck comes from.
I have several cases of the older brew, but I guess I will go ahead and try the new stuff. Not much of a choice I suppose.

 

[John M]

"I deal with people like you at work all the time who are hard headed and it's hard to get them to vary or try new things" -- Hardheaed huh? Well I deal with seksual intellectuals all day long who think they know MY experience better than me.
",but with synthetic I average around 10,000 miles between oil changes with synthetic and you can't do that with regular oils" -- YES you can, my wifes car does it and has been doing it about 5 years now, reread what I posted before.
"And as far as that sae rating it really does not mean much anymore" --- IT DOES TO ME!
"amsoil does fully support there products and I never had a problem running there oils in a madza I owned for 12 years that is still going strong today with over 400,000 miles on it and the guy that bought it still uses it for a daily driver ." -- Thats good! Im glad it had worked out for you.

My Point is this, I have tried synthetics in everything I own from my $40000 truck, to my free 1969 lawnmower.FOR ME I cant see any benefit to using any synthetic, especially one that isnt available at my local parts store or Autozone or the like, which BTW is where I just picked up 4 gallons of Rotella and a filter to change my oil in my truck.(YES I SAID GALLONS! IT TAKES 15 QUARTS)Whether its cheaper in the long run, or more expesive, Ill continue to do so, and you or anyone else cant convince me to do other wise., unless you pay for the oil! Now, on the flip side to that, I will say that I do use synthetics in transmissions, rear ends and even brakes if I can, since these fluids dont get changed as frequently as MY oil does, so is that a benefit, yes I guess it is, and Im fine with that. This ends my "hardheadedness"!

 

[Leland]

yawn

 

[John M]

Yea I know!Sorry for my hardheadedness.It was never my intention to let this go too far, but as usual with me, when my intelligence is questioned I get upset. Lets just agree to disagree and you can spend you money how you want, and Ill spend my money how I want, and the next time an oil topic comes up, we both just state what we fell and be done with it.