NH 275 square baler noise

[MF in Canada]

Hi folks,

I got a new-to-me baler and its working great, but it makes a loud banging sound when I turn to the right, even slightly.

Usually I am pretty good with things like this, but when I listened yesterday at low rpms with the tractor stationary, I could not identify which part was banging.

The sound is coming from the area just in front of the flywheel - there is a slip clutch, and over-running clutch and a U-joint in there.

The sound sounds like cast iron hitting cast iron - it's not a tinny shield type of sound.

It's not so bad turning left, and going straight ahead the sound disappears. It only takes a slight turn to the right to make the sound.

I would instantly suspect the U-joint, but the section of PTO shaft between the slip clutch and forward to the carrier bearing doesn't move around very much. All the articulation is taken by the two U-joints in the first short section of shaft before the carrier bearing.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience?

Greatly appreciated,
Eric

 

[flying belgian]

Is it coming with each stroke of the plunger? Maybe the knife is coming loose. I had that happen once.

 

[tomturkey]

I'm sure you've ruled out the carrier bearing and the carrier bearing mount?? Recheck the universal joints. The baler flywheel is not coming loose and wobbling??? all I can think of gobble

 

[Leroy]

To me it sounds like the pto shaft is not correct in length or alignment for this tractor. If length is not correct in length of drawbar it will make the banging from the universal joints and if not in proper alignment will make things worse in turning, either right or left. I cannot remember the length from the drawbar hitch pin hole to the pin hole on the implement and then one sider banging bore sounds like that drawbar is not straight in alignment. Is the drawbar the orignal for the tractor? Could the hitch on baler be bent? Some balers have different settings for alignment to how far off to side the windrow is but some will not work with PTO or engine. Is that a 2 universal shaft or a 3 universal shaft? After making sure the joints are good next check this.

 

[flying belgian]

I don't believe op would describe a pto problem as a banging sound. That would be more of a rattle sound. I'm still thinking something with the plunger.

 

[DanielW]

What's the frequency of the noise? If it's about once every second, it's happening on every plunger stroke. Possibly a loose knife or plunger out of adjustment causing the knives to hit. Or the plunger stop not being quite disengaged and slightly catching the plunger with each stroke. Why it would only happen on a right turn is baboozling, however.

If it's happening much more frequently than once a second, it's at the PTO frequency. Possibly a carrier bearing or u-joint behaving wacky, or a loose flywheel, or pto shaft the wrong length.

Does your PTO slide nice and easily through it's full stroke when connecting to the tractor? That's absolutely critical. If it binds up when sliding in or out, it will put all kinds of crazy thrust load on the u-joints, bearings, and gearbox when turning. That might explain why it's only on right turns. On most balers when the tongue is swung out in field position, the tongue is slightly to the left of the flywheel where the PTO attaches, so on a left turn the PTO shaft will slide out/extend, while on a right turn the shaft will slide in/collapse.

Disconnect the PTO from the tractor and slide it all the way in out. See if you have lots of travel in both directions and check for any spots where it binds.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Universal joints will knock not bang. Though if they come apart they will bang. Since I am not a square baler guy I would just guess it is on the PTO ot depnding on speed and frequency of noise the flywheel or plunger issue.

 

[mennometis]

NH haying equipment is designed to turn right at corners so unless you are running with hitch in transport or the pto shaft is fully retracted as Leroy suggested, there should be nothing banging in front of flywheel.

U-joints operated at angles give you acceleration/deceleration on every rotation of the joint. This is balanced by matching angles of two joints in either a Z or W configuration and phased properly. In turns, your driveline switches from a Z to a W losing the balance in between. You should notice the baler accelerate rpms in turns with a bit of vibration noise. The slip clutch will have intermittent pressure on it due to the acceleration/deceleration at larger angles. This overrunning clutch, among other things, protects your gearbox from the acceleration/deceleration cycles of the driveline.
WHAT CAUSES PTO VIBRATION?

 

[lastcowboy32]

(quoted from post at 08:07:28 07/13/23) Hi folks,

I got a new-to-me baler and its working great, but it makes a loud banging sound when I turn to the right, even slightly.

Usually I am pretty good with things like this, but when I listened yesterday at low rpms with the tractor stationary, I could not identify which part was banging.

The sound is coming from the area just in front of the flywheel - there is a slip clutch, and over-running clutch and a U-joint in there.

The sound sounds like cast iron hitting cast iron - it's not a tinny shield type of sound.

It's not so bad turning left, and going straight ahead the sound disappears. It only takes a slight turn to the right to make the sound.

I would instantly suspect the U-joint, but the section of PTO shaft between the slip clutch and forward to the carrier bearing doesn't move around very much. All the articulation is taken by the two U-joints in the first short section of shaft before the carrier bearing.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience?

Greatly appreciated,
Eric

Shot in the dark without more information. But, as a sanity check... checkout the assembly that I circled in the picture. Is it set so that the PTO runs in a nice straight line from tractor PTO to flywheel?

There are a few issues that could cause banging on a right hand turn...

1. That assembly is actually hitting a three point hitch arm on your tractor. We have to make sure our arms are all the way up to keep them out of the way. If you have a smaller tractor, even that may not be sufficient.

2. Universal Joint Chatter. Any implement that drafts to the right side of your tractor, like a baler will make PTO chatter like mad when you turn to the right. I always try to bale fields counter-clockwise for this reason. It preserves your PTO joints.

3. The assembly that I circled should rock forward and backward to help accommodate PTO extensions and contractions, as you go up and down over knolls, turn, etc. It moves most freely if it is set at a height that makes a straight line between tractor PTO and flywheel.

4. The assembly that I circled can build up slop from side to side over time. It can "bang" from one side to the other when you turn, if it has gotten sloppy. It should only go forward and back, if it has a lot of slop side to side... tighten it up... which may require shims, building up some holes with weld, etc.

5. Others have talked about the telescoping joint. All good advice.

6. Also check the hitch on the baler. The hitch is also adjustable up and down. You should set it at a height so that the baler chamber is level when the tractor and baler are on the level. That won't cause banging... but it can "bang" if the mounting holes from between baler hitch and baler tongue have egged out, and the hitch bangs up and down or side to side. The hitch on my 276 has some slop like this, and makes knocking sounds. Doesn't bother me too much, but I know I have to maybe tighten up the mounting holes after the haying season is over.

 

[lastcowboy32]

 

[MF in Canada]

That is an awesome set of responses....

I will go out once it stops raining and check the things you mentioned. I am pretty sure that I will need to adjust the carrier bearing support to make the whole PTO shaft straight.

I do have the original drawbar, but my tractor is a Massey Ferguson 245, which is a fairly small tractor. The venerable farmer I bought this baler from was using a slightly larger tractor.

I will check all your other suggestions, too. I think, by the way, that this is a PTO speed banging, not a plunger issue. But I will check carefully.

Thank you and I will post once I get this sorted out.

Super grateful,
Eric

 

[Leroy]

What is the height from the drawbar to PTO in tractor? Low PTO shaft and high mount on baler could make the shaft not run strait enough and make noise.

 

[Leroy]

I would guess you are us using a straight drawbar and not a 3 point hitch drawbar as the 3 point will never work with PTO equipment. A lot of tractor with the straight swunging drawbar have different length settings, short for tillage and long for PTO Are you in long setting? Then they can have a low or high setting?

 

[lastcowboy32]

(quoted from post at 06:43:51 07/15/23) I would guess you are us using a straight drawbar and not a 3 point hitch drawbar as the 3 point will never work with PTO equipment. A lot of tractor with the straight swunging drawbar have different length settings, short for tillage and long for PTO Are you in long setting? Then they can have a low or high setting?

Good point Leroy. If the drawbar is short, things are going to be cramped at the tractor end, and turning to the right is going to make it even more cramped.

Another good point about running a PTO implement from a three point hitch drawbar, or an old Farmall fast hitch drawbar would be a whole 'nother level of complication. They worry me with PTO implements, because I'm always afraid I'm going to hit a lever and raise/lower the drawbar and ... boom... there goes your PTO.

I'm not familiar with a MF 245. I think they just have a straight drawbar... but, back to your original point, I ditto the fact that the orginal poster should check the drawbar and see if it can be lengthened or shortened... and compare to what the NH275 wants to see. The old NH balers are very forgiving, as long as they are adjusted properly. I've run ours on tractors as small as a chinese 28hp tractor... and as big as a 100hp International 856... and the settings were flexible enough to work, once adjusted.

 

[DeltaRed]

The drive shaft must be straight from flywheel to tractor. Adjust carrier bearing accordingly. From the end of PTO to the center of the drawbar hole is 14.Go to PTO specs on the left side of page for more info.

 

[rustred]

first of all u must make sure the drive line is timed correctly. and sharp turning they dont like and will rattle. never turn as sharp as the tractor will turn. preplan you turns.

 

[ss55]

Have someone else run the baler while you walk alongside and listen for the source of the noise. Your description of noise during turns indicates one of the front U-joints may be going bad. A rear U-joint going bad often starts out only makes noise during the last part of the plunger compression stroke.

 

[MF in Canada]

Hello good people,

Thanks for all the many responses - truly a feast of information.

I lowered the carrier bearing so that the PTO shaft runs straight and I also found that the nut on the shear bolt had worked itself loose a few turns. I replaced the bolt and nut, using a nylock nut this time.

Having done this, the banging sound has gone away. I am greatly relieved.

I also checked the drawbar length, which is correct at 14, and the height of the PTO output on the tractor, which is a bit lower than the 6 minimum specified in the baler book, but it seems to work fine now that the shaft is straight.

There is a little U-joint chatter on hard right turns still, but not much, and I have enjoyed baling counterclockwise so that I turn left as much as possible on my amoeba-shaped fields.

All your responses are greatly appreciated - there's nothing like a set of friends when a machine is making a mysterious sound!

Best wishes to you all,
Eric

 

[DanielW]

Thanks for letting us know: It's always nice when folks here post what the end result/final fix was.

 

[lastcowboy32]

Glad it worked out.

I can relate to the amoeba-shaped fields. Got a couple of those.

The other benefit of baling counterclockwise? Keeps you and your tractor out of the tree branches when you bale the outside windrow (aka "backswath").