NH 311 twine pulls out of holder on one side

[2MaineFarmers]

Well this has me stumped and I've fought it long and hard but I'm ready for some help from the experts. Shouldn't be a real complicated issue, the #1 twine is pulling out of the twine holder when it goes to make the knot on about 1 in 20 bales.
Per the manual I decreased tension out of the twine box. I was at 4 lb and now I'm at 2 lb. I tightened up the little finger sized twine holder "spring". I tightened it up until I was out of threads and it still didn't hold so I replaced both sides with new. No change. I looked at the two pieces that push together to pinch the twine. Shows wear but no irregularities. I use NH brand 7200 twine so it's not bad twine. Bales are 35 lb. Finally the manual states to check knife arm travel. No difference between the two knotters. I can't for the life of me figure out why the holder let's go when it's time to make the knot. Problem is only on one side. Anyone seen this before? Thanks for the help folks.

 

[chuck2015]

(quoted from post at 16:27:56 07/27/19) Well this has me stumped and I've fought it long and hard but I'm ready for some help from the experts. Shouldn't be a real complicated issue, the #1 twine is pulling out of the twine holder when it goes to make the knot on about 1 in 20 bales.
Per the manual I decreased tension out of the twine box. I was at 4 lb and now I'm at 2 lb. I tightened up the little finger sized twine holder "spring". I tightened it up until I was out of threads and it still didn't hold so I replaced both sides with new. No change. I looked at the two pieces that push together to pinch the twine. Shows wear but no irregularities. I use NH brand 7200 twine so it's not bad twine. Bales are 35 lb. Finally the manual states to check knife arm travel. No difference between the two knotters. I can't for the life of me figure out why the holder let's go when it's time to make the knot. Problem is only on one side. Anyone seen this before? Thanks for the help folks.

I often wondered if not a video could be made of the knotters operating to catch the moment it goes wrong and then take this video and slow it down to see just what is happening?

 

[2MaineFarmers]

Its worth a shot. If I cant figure it out before next bale day I can give it a try. I dont think I could make it happen just tripping the knotter. Ty

 

[Adirondack case guy]

Check the hay dogs in the bale chamber. They break off quite often or the spring on them forcing them into
the chamber breaks.---------------Loren

 

[Hay hay hay]

Twine holder...you mean the twine disc? Do you have the proper tension on the twine out of the twine box to help the needles lay the twine tight in the groove of the disc? I suggest you look at the slo-mo video of the NH knotter on youtube. It should help you diagnose it. Also be sure to use the correct terms (perhaps you are) to describe the problem. There are lots of experienced guys here but a careful description of the problem is key.

 

[2MaineFarmers]

The hay dogs all got new springs last year. I have 2 lb out of the box. I believe the recommendation is 3 lb +/- 1 lb. The #2 twine from the needle never misses. Even when the #1 string pulls out I always get a knot in the #2 string. I have watched the knotter video and read many posts but cant cure it.
I believe I am using the correct terms; let me see if I can explain it. The twine disc and twine holder work together to pinch the twine. The pinching power comes from the twine holder spring, which is a bent finger shaped piece of metal that uses compression against the bend to create force. Kind of like the twine disc and twine holder are your thumb and finger pinching together, and the twine holder spring is your muscle. The tension out of the twine box is like someone trying to pull the string out of your fingers. I've increased the "pinching muscle" and decreased the tension from the "person pulling"... to no avail; it still pulls out of the twine holder.

This is a good page on it: https://www.progressiveforage.com/forage-production/equipment/mechanics-corner-twine-disc-and-twine-holder

 

[Chief 83]

Had the same problem with my 5 year old baler. Add
a second twine holder spring. Yes, use 2 on that
side. Cost me about $400 but that's what the baler
tech did. Hasn't missed since.

 

[Bret4207]

IF you get the NH knotter manual, not real expensive and found on Ebay, there is a section on twine disc timing. Could be wear is keeping that problem side from getting a good hold on the twine.

 

[JOCCO]

If I were you I would call Brad at Ingraham equipment in knox. They are a NH dealer.

 

[2MaineFarmers]

I was just looking through that article again and I decided to order a new twine holder. The dealer didnt have it on hand but I'll get it by the end of the week. I dont generally like throwing parts at something but its $20 and if nothing else, will help me eliminate a variable from the equation.

 

[2MaineFarmers]

Between the twine disc and the twine holder, the holder is generally supposed to be the wear item. I picked it up today and will replace it tomorrow. I've also taken some pictures and studied them against other pictures and I am thinking my timing on the twine disc may be off by a few degrees so i will be checking that.

Thank you for the suggestions. The double spring has me a little concerned as I feel like that is masking other wear issues between the holder and disc. The increased compression will increase the rate of wear. It may get me by in a pinch Sunday if I dont get it figured out, but I dint think it is a long term solution. I'll update.

 

[2MaineFarmers]

Took me about 6 hours but I changed out the twine holder on the problem side (what a pita!) adjusted twine disc timing on both sides and when I tripped the knotter and checked everything, the needle on the problem side needed to be adjusted both up and over. So fingers crossed, we will see how everything works tomorrow. Have probably 600 to 700 bales to make. The gear on the back end of the billhook shaft was mostly what held me up.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 13:58:10 08/03/19) Took me about 6 hours but I changed out the twine holder on the problem side (what a pita!) adjusted twine disc timing on both sides and when I tripped the knotter and checked everything, the needle on the problem side needed to be adjusted both up and over. So fingers crossed, we will see how everything works tomorrow. Have probably 600 to 700 bales to make. The gear on the back end of the billhook shaft was mostly what held me up.

2Maine, when I do anything like that ona baler I take the tension off and run hay through tripping it by hand and make a lot of six inch bales giving it a good test.

 

[2MaineFarmers]

Thanks, that is exactly what I did. I actually hooked up my little 15 horse tractor to the baler, broke up a bale and threw it in. Surprised me that it didn't bother that little tractor at all.

Everything seemed to be in working order so I ran it yesterday and did 676 bales with only missing 2. I think one was the same issue as before and one was due to the twine in the box tied to the next roll of sisal. I did have one bale where there were no strings at all and it pushed flakes for a bit but then it was fine.

Either way I'm super happy that it is resolved. Thank you

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 09:07:58 08/05/19)
Thanks, that is exactly what I did. I actually hooked up my little 15 horse tractor to the baler, broke up a bale and threw it in. Surprised me that it didn't bother that little tractor at all.

Everything seemed to be in working order so I ran it yesterday and did 676 bales with only missing 2. I think one was the same issue as before and one was due to the twine in the box tied to the next roll of sisal. I did have one bale where there were no strings at all and it pushed flakes for a bit but then it was fine.

Either way I'm super happy that it is resolved. Thank you

Congratulations! What part of ME are you in?

 

[2MaineFarmers]

Central Maine, about a half hour west of Augusta. I hoped to be doing second crop by now but it was just too wet to get on the fields in june.

 

[showcrop]

Ahh Decoster egg country, huh? I go snowmobiling in Northern ME.