NH68 issues

[DHB]

The rolling basket case of a baler that is my NH 68 strikes again... This thing is temperamental and seems to work when it wants to.
A lot of searches via google and other sources have turned up information on all sorts of issues regarding knotter problems, which I do have a knotter issue which I will address shortly, but I can't address that unless I can actually start getting hay into the baler on a regular basis. The manual that I ordered from New Holland isn't worth the paper it is printed on in my opinion.

The first problem I'm encountering is the hay that is being fed into the pickup isn't going in, it just rolls in front ( as a ball ) as I move forwards. This particular baler has a Wisconsin running when baling. I've even tried having my tractor in first gear traveling forward at about 1000 RPMs in first gear so I'm pretty sure the issue isn't a speed mismatch between the tractor and the PTO. I've also taken off the wind guard thinking this might be an issue with too heavy of a windrow affecting the hay getting into the tine bar area (?). Simply put, it drags the windrow forward with very little hay being picked up.

The second issue is that when there is enough hay to tie a knot, one side doesn't tie, the other side ties, and the next bale ties a knot about 6 inches behind the knot that was already tied.

I'm at a loss of what to do here. I did not grow up around farm equipment.

Thank you.

 

[used red MN]

Is the tin in area that the hay is moving through to the plunger all covered with surface rust? If so you will probably need to buff it off with an angle grinder with a wire brush mounted on it. If that fails there there is a product called “Slip plate,” painting this on will make it slick. Also a crop with short stems and light windrows aggravates this.
I am far from an expert on knotters, so maybe someone else will chime in. You should be able to engage the knotter to tie and have someone turn the flywheel through the tie cycle while you watch it to diagnose why the one side is not tying by comparing the one that ties the knot to the side that is not. I suspect it has the spiked wheel that engages in the compressed hay as the plunger pushes the hay back as more feeds in the baler. If the trip knotter trip arm that rides against it is not set to roll against enough of the arc before it drops off the arc to soon you get another tie of the knotters. So is this happening every 6 inches? If so there is an adjustment to change that. Is the problem with the manual possibly more of a problem of your lack of understanding the terminology? One other thing I will mention is for a baler to work and tie properly the hay dogs or stops I think some brands call them need to be working correctly. The are spring loaded “catches” that pop out a couple inches or more off the sides or top and bottom of the bale chamber. They catch or hold the compressed hay when the plunger moves forward away from hay to get another plunger full. If that makes sense.

 

[sandcastle1]

has it ever worked properly? I think that you need to get it feeding well before you even start to work on the knotter. NH68 balers were built in the 1950's so it is pretty old and knotters are fussy in the extreme.

 

[cole in mo]

The rolling basket case of a baler that is my NH 68 strikes again... This thing is temperamental and seems to work when it wants to.
A lot of searches via google and other sources have turned up information on all sorts of issues regarding knotter problems, which I do have a knotter issue which I will address shortly, but I can't address that unless I can actually start getting hay into the baler on a regular basis. The manual that I ordered from New Holland isn't worth the paper it is printed on in my opinion.

The first problem I'm encountering is the hay that is being fed into the pickup isn't going in, it just rolls in front ( as a ball ) as I move forwards. This particular baler has a Wisconsin running when baling. I've even tried having my tractor in first gear traveling forward at about 1000 RPMs in first gear so I'm pretty sure the issue isn't a speed mismatch between the tractor and the PTO. I've also taken off the wind guard thinking this might be an issue with too heavy of a windrow affecting the hay getting into the tine bar area (?). Simply put, it drags the windrow forward with very little hay being picked up.

The second issue is that when there is enough hay to tie a knot, one side doesn't tie, the other side ties, and the next bale ties a knot about 6 inches behind the knot that was already tied.

I'm at a loss of what to do here. I did not grow up around farm equipment.

Thank you.

Are you letting the pick up all the way down, and the ground wheel on it can also be adjusted, so the pick up tines are just above contacting the ground.

 

[DeltaRed]

The aluminum feeder tines are worn. Possibly as much as 2-3 inches. It will not feed properly. Compare with new ones. They should be only an inch off the floor.Are the fedder tines even all there? they can get broken,or can simply meed adjustment. On the knotter issue,too many things to go over here. This is where you really NEED a book! That book will have a trouble shooting guide with pictures and then tell you how to fix,again with pictures.Adjust everything 'by the book',in the order of the book. Unless parts are broken or worn out it will tie like a new one. That baler is 65 years old. It may simply just be worn out. To the point where a complete rebuild may be in order. At that point,an upgrade to a newer machine may be neccessary.

 

[showcrop]

If the pick-up won't lift the hay it could be a problem with your raking. please describe how you are raking and the size of your windrow. In setting knotters you need to go step by step through the whole process. trying to hit a high point here and there isn't going to work because all adjustments are inter-related. You should probably search out a repair guy to go through it with you. If you were to share your location you could find that you have a willing member here just down the road.

 

[DHB]

1.) There is very minimal surface rust on the tin guards in the pickup area. There have been a few of the bands(?) replaced with newer ones over the years.
2.) It ran last year, but ran poorly. Since then numerous parts replaced: the aluminum feeder teeth, the bushings on the tine bar ( ovaled ), along with the pin driving the feeder tine bar ( warn down to 75 % of original diameter ) , every grease zerk that could be located, flywheel bushings and bearings behind flywheel going to the main gearbox / crank assembly.
3.) Pickup wheel is at the bottom most hole.
4.) Borrowed an even older NH66 baler from a neighbor and had no problems baling with that particular machine.

As far as the problem with the pickup goes...... I had somebody drive while I was walking along watching what was going on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the pickup tines supposed to a 90* angle to the tin guards in the pickup area? I noticed that when it is running with no load they seem perfectly fine, but under load they flip backwards. I didn't have the tools right then and there to take things apart but was able to peak through and see what looks like a cam roller isn't riding any sort of track. It looks as if all the rollers are to the right of, or rubbing against a cam track. I'm going to try to post a picture tomorrow..

 

[showcrop]

1.) There is very minimal surface rust on the tin guards in the pickup area. There have been a few of the bands(?) replaced with newer ones over the years.
2.) It ran last year, but ran poorly. Since then numerous parts replaced: the aluminum feeder teeth, the bushings on the tine bar ( ovaled ), along with the pin driving the feeder tine bar ( warn down to 75 % of original diameter ) , every grease zerk that could be located, flywheel bushings and bearings behind flywheel going to the main gearbox / crank assembly.
3.) Pickup wheel is at the bottom most hole.
4.) Borrowed an even older NH66 baler from a neighbor and had no problems baling with that particular machine.

As far as the problem with the pickup goes...... I had somebody drive while I was walking along watching what was going on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the pickup tines supposed to a 90* angle to the tin guards in the pickup area? I noticed that when it is running with no load they seem perfectly fine, but under load they flip backwards. I didn't have the tools right then and there to take things apart but was able to peak through and see what looks like a cam roller isn't riding any sort of track. It looks as if all the rollers are to the right of, or rubbing against a cam track. I'm going to try to post a picture tomorrow..

Sounds like you have found your pick-up problem. Yes, for every tine bar there is an arm with a roller that is supposed to ride in a track as it goes around. perhaps your whole pick-up is shifted sideways. how do your tines line up with the spaces between the strippers?

 

[DanielW]

I'd agree with Showcrop: If your cam followers to maintain the tooth angle aren't following in the track, that's probably your problem. But a few other things you mentioned are also a little concerning:

You mentioned you took off the windguard. That's probably hurting you a lot. The windguard has to be there to hold the hay down in the tooth 'zone', so the teeth push it into the feeder. If the windguard's not there (or if it's not being held down and is just bouncing up over the hay), hay will just ride up over the teeth rather than get pushed in.

You mention running the tractor at 1000 RPM in first gear. It usually doesn't do any favours to square balers to run too slow/light. Usually they work best when you keep the chamber pretty stuffed with hay. Is your Wisconsin running up to the correct RPM? Depending on the sheave size on the Wisconsin output shaft, sometimes they had to really be wound up quite high to achieve anywhere close to 540 at the PTO.

If you're still having trouble with it, you might try posting a video on youtube and putting a link here. The 68 was one of the most common and no-nonsense balers NH built, and a large percent of the users on this forum likely have either had one or still have one. Chances are someone here will definitely be able to help you out.

 

[showcrop]

I missed the part about the low RPMs. Big no no for hay balers. You may just as well remove the flywheel. Low RPMs takes away momentum and puts a lot more torque on many parts.

 

[DHB]

It is the cam follower. It is worn beyond use, somehow only one of the cam rollers are staying in place. The other three are flopping in the wind. I've managed to locate a good used one, but I'm not excited about the amount of disassembly that looks to be heading my way. I'm going to be looking for a parts baler on to keep on hand, which is probably a good idea at this point. Not sure how I was able to bale 8 bales last October with it, a task that took over 2 hours to do!


Taking the wind guard off was an experiment to see if it was somehow causing an issue. It will be going back on as soon as the issues are resolved. As for 1k in 1st gear, that was an experiment to see if moving slower would stop the rolling of hay on the ground and feed it into the baler. As for the Wisconsin - I borrowed a digital tachometer from a coworker - warmed up at no load it bounces at around 547-550. A little fast, but I would assume it would slow down under load. The time for tuning things up is after the cam problem is taken care of.

As for the knotter problems, I'll update on those later. One thing at a time, but I'll leave you to ponder this...



And knotzilla.

 

[DeltaRed]

It is the cam follower. It is worn beyond use, somehow only one of the cam rollers are staying in place. The other three are flopping in the wind. I've managed to locate a good used one, but I'm not excited about the amount of disassembly that looks to be heading my way. I'm going to be looking for a parts baler on to keep on hand, which is probably a good idea at this point. Not sure how I was able to bale 8 bales last October with it, a task that took over 2 hours to do!


Taking the wind guard off was an experiment to see if it was somehow causing an issue. It will be going back on as soon as the issues are resolved. As for 1k in 1st gear, that was an experiment to see if moving slower would stop the rolling of hay on the ground and feed it into the baler. As for the Wisconsin - I borrowed a digital tachometer from a coworker - warmed up at no load it bounces at around 547-550. A little fast, but I would assume it would slow down under load. The time for tuning things up is after the cam problem is taken care of.

As for the knotter problems, I'll update on those later. One thing at a time, but I'll leave you to ponder this...



And knotzilla.

My old NewHolland had a worn cam track just like yours. After dropping the pickup,I observed that EVERY bearing in the pickup was 'gone'.I came to the conclution that the rest of the baler wasnt far behind. It wasnt. Later that winter I cut it up. EVERY bearing need replaceing. So.. The old baler was simply used up. I bought a newer baler for less money than fixing the old 282. I replace it with a 283.Sometimes fixing the old one simply isnt cost effective.Look closely at the rest of the machine.Sadly,it may not be worth fixing.From your knot pics,you may have multiple issues. Most obvious is the twine knife is working dull or broken. The twine arm doesnt appear to be pushing the twine off the bill hook. There nees to be a good 'rub' on the billhook.There may be other issues..I Start from the beginning and adjust it 'by the book,in the order of the book.Unless it is worn out,or has broken/bent parts,it will tie like a new one.Those old balers,at the first sign of knotter issue,out come the wrenches. Everything gets so out of whack that it just doesnt work. Then they just need a complete adjusting. Then they will work.

 

[DHB]

I managed to rebuild my pickup reel with new bushings ( bought one original, made three of my own reproductions ), replaced the rollers, and replaced the pickup cam for all a little under 250 bucks.

I was working on the knotter issue issue today and noticed that as I was rolling things over manually the the needles are entering the chamber some four inches behind the plunger. Everything is set to proper alignment specs per various books and videos that I have found on Youtube that show proper timing instructions. The only marks on the gears are a line, not three holes as most people have shown on their machinery. The number of links are correct.

I'm going to guess that some parts were changed out at some point in this thing's life and nothing was remarked to show correct timing. I've never really worked with drive chains before and I know given this situation I either have to advance or [slow/brake/inhibit/hinder/stop/impede/decelerate] the timing on the chain in order to have things properly lined up. Since I have to leave for work in about 15 minutes, any advice would be greatly appreciated in what I have to do. I've already spend several hours trying this out with next to no luck.

Thank you.

 

[showcrop]

Don't get too creative. Just go by the book, A-Z.

 

[tom upton]

I managed to rebuild my pickup reel with new bushings ( bought one original, made three of my own reproductions ), replaced the rollers, and replaced the pickup cam for all a little under 250 bucks.

I was working on the knotter issue issue today and noticed that as I was rolling things over manually the the needles are entering the chamber some four inches behind the plunger. Everything is set to proper alignment specs per various books and videos that I have found on Youtube that show proper timing instructions. The only marks on the gears are a line, not three holes as most people have shown on their machinery. The number of links are correct.

I'm going to guess that some parts were changed out at some point in this thing's life and nothing was remarked to show correct timing. I've never really worked with drive chains before and I know given this situation I either have to advance or [slow/brake/inhibit/hinder/stop/impede/decelerate] the timing on the chain in order to have things properly lined up. Since I have to leave for work in about 15 minutes, any advice would be greatly appreciated in what I have to do. I've already spend several hours trying this out with next to no luck.

Thank you.

You need a "baler guy" to pyhsicaly help you out. Back in the day every area seemed to have at least one guy that was good at fixing balers. The baler guy in our locale was Royce Lambert. He worked at the local Massey dealer and a lot on the side as well. He would turn your frustrations into elations in a matter of minutes when it came to setting up knotters! Unfortunatley we lost him to cancer several years ago. As a kid It was my good fortune to be around him a few times when he was working on balers and I managed to pick up enough from him to keep my old balers running. BUT my estimation of what you have going on is not going to be solved easily without you getting a good baler guy to come out and help you out. Unless maybe you find a good youtube tutorial you can follow?? Even if you have to pay a dealer to send a mechanic out you will soon forget the cost if your baler is working correctly. Not implying that you are not able to eventually fix but I have seen were some guys have just compounded the problem especially when it comes to baler knotters. That being said there are wear parts on your knotters that are likely in need of replacement given that your cam follower and bearings were wore out. Things like the brass balls on bill hooks, bill hooks, hay dogs and springs, wiper return springs. I think I would take a close look at all your wear parts and make a trip to your local NH dealer to price and talk to there service guy at the same time.

 

[DHB]

The good news is that I've finally got the thing in time. Ending up having to advance the everything by six links to get everything in time which also fixed the other to do item of the needle guard timing problem that was also causing me problems. Previously I was living on the dangerous side by tying the thing open, admittedly was a dumb and expensive thing to do had something gone catastrophically wrong. I've also managed to get the thing to tie very nice tight knots.

I'm so close to getting this thing done I can't stop now....The final and last problem I have to face is a problem with twine. If you are looking from the rear of the baler towards the front, the left hand twine will slide off the bale as the first slugs of hay are being sent into the chamber and hit by the plunger. Hay dog springs are all intact and snappy. I've move the feeder tines a little bit to the left as mentioned in several posts and videos with no luck. I have noticed there seems to be a lack of hay packed against the left side of the chamber. Feeder tines are shorter / worn down and the closest local New Holland dealer only had one new feeder tine of the type required by this machine. There are two other dealers in my region that I need to check with when I can get the time.

I believe my problem is either some sort of twine tension issue, or an issue with feeder tines?

 

[showcrop]

Those aluminum cross feed tines that New Holland uses are problematic. There have been threads abourt them where guys had problems that they couldn't see because they didn't know what it was supposed to look like. The fingers will wear down short but you won't know it.

 

[flying belgian]

The good news is that I've finally got the thing in time. Ending up having to advance the everything by six links to get everything in time which also fixed the other to do item of the needle guard timing problem that was also causing me problems. Previously I was living on the dangerous side by tying the thing open, admittedly was a dumb and expensive thing to do had something gone catastrophically wrong. I've also managed to get the thing to tie very nice tight knots.

I'm so close to getting this thing done I can't stop now....The final and last problem I have to face is a problem with twine. If you are looking from the rear of the baler towards the front, the left hand twine will slide off the bale as the first slugs of hay are being sent into the chamber and hit by the plunger. Hay dog springs are all intact and snappy. I've move the feeder tines a little bit to the left as mentioned in several posts and videos with no luck. I have noticed there seems to be a lack of hay packed against the left side of the chamber. Feeder tines are shorter / worn down and the closest local New Holland dealer only had one new feeder tine of the type required by this machine. There are two other dealers in my region that I need to check with when I can get the time.

I believe my problem is either some sort of twine tension issue, or an issue with feeder tines?

Are you running it up to speed? 540 rpm?