Non-commercial Class A driver's license

[RCP]

For years there have discussions/arguments on which driver's license endorsements are needed in PA to use a 3/4-ton pickup and a gooseneck trailer to haul our pulling tractors. These are the rules as I copied them from the PennDOT website.

CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed have a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Example: A truck, with a GCWR of 28,000 pounds towing a vehicle or trailer with a GVWR of 11,000 pounds. The driver of the vehicle must have a Class A driver’s license to operate this vehicle.

I am not a lawyer or a police officer and there maybe exceptions to this rule, and I am sure many of us have been using a Class C license for years with no issues. But I decided to become legal. I passed the driver's test for non-commercial class A endorsement. I am now legal to haul my own equipment on my own truck and trailer. My truck has a GVWR of 10,000# and the trailer has a GVWR of 17,900#, which makes the GCWR of 27,900#. Therefore, I needed the Class A license to be legal. BTW what counts is what is on the title for the truck and trailer for GCWR, not what the rating is on the license plates on the vehicles.

For more information here is a link to the PennDOT page.

https://www.pa.gov/.../bdl/bdl-fact-sheets/fs-ncab.pdf

Keep on trucking.

 

[Scott 730]

BTW what counts is what is on the title for the truck and trailer for GCWR, not what the rating is on the license plates on the vehicles.

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AFAIK what counts is what is on the data plate or sticker on the door jamb of the truck and what is on the data plate or sticker on the trailer.

 

[RCP]

AFAIK what counts is what is on the data plate or sticker on the door jamb of the truck and what is on the data plate or sticker on the trailer.

Agreed, which should be the same as the title shows. Many people in our area, even officials that do plate and title work, believe it is the GVW assigned with the plate. I recently sold a trailer and the lady doing the title work told the buyer that he could plate the trailer as 10K not 12K as shown on the trailer nameplate and avoid the CDL requirement. I didn't correct her.

 

[showcrop]

W@hen I went to get my combination license after having a CDL with hazmat, tank, and air, for probably 40 years, I went with my SRW F-350, and 22,400 tandem dual. There were other candidates and their chauffeurs there, with various heavy trucks and trailers, and there were many declarations that you can't test for a combination CDL with a pick-up truck. When my turn came the examiner checked the data plates on my truck and trailer and off we went.

 

[RCP]

W@hen I went to get my combination license after having a CDL with hazmat, tank, and air, for probably 40 years, I went with my SRW F-350, and 22,400 tandem dual. There were other candidates and their chauffeurs there, with various heavy trucks and trailers, and there were many declarations that you can't test for a combination CDL with a pick-up truck. When my turn came the examiner checked the data plates on my truck and trailer and off we went.

In Pa, for the non-commercial Class A, you are told to bring the vehicle that you intend on using, RV, Pickup, Semi etc. I am not aware of any other stipulations.

 

[showcrop]

In Pa, for the non-commercial Class A, you are told to bring the vehicle that you intend on using, RV, Pickup, Semi etc. I am not aware of any other stipulations.

Here in NH that is one stipulation. Others are that the vehicle has to be street legal, and that it needs to be driven to the test by a driver legally licensed for the vehicle.

 

[RCP]

Here in NH that is one stipulation. Others are that the vehicle has to be street legal, and that it needs to be driven to the test by a driver legally licensed for the vehicle.

Agreed and those same stipulations apply in Pa.

 

[RCP]

I did have one disagreement with the examiner; we went down a hill that had signs that said Trucks over 21,000# 20 MPH. He failed me because I was going 35 MPH, I explained that my truck/trailer weighs 15,000# when empty and therefore I was not obligated to stay below 20 MPH only the 40 MPH general speed limit. He said I was wrong that it was based on GCWR. I researched the rules and have an email confirmation PennDOT, the rule is based on your actual weight not your GCWR. Unfortunately, there is no appeal process, so I had to take the test again. Rather than argue with the examiner (same guy), I went down the hill at 15 MPH. The driving test is tracked by an I-pad that identifies mistakes, so arguing with the examiner was not going to change anything, so I saved my breath. FWIW, many Class A vehicles weigh over 21,000# empty, so they would be restricted to 20 MPH.

 

[Ray,IN]

Agreed, which should be the same as the title shows. Many people in our area, even officials that do plate and title work, believe it is the GVW assigned with the plate. I recently sold a trailer and the lady doing the title work told the buyer that he could plate the trailer as 10K not 12K as shown on the trailer nameplate and avoid the CDL requirement. I didn't correct her.

Indiana goes by the weight max on the license plate for private individual plates. That is one of the things that are state-specific and might not be valid outside the state. I can plate my pickup for empty weight; get stopped hauling something heavy and are liable to receive a ticket.
The GCWR/GWR is not in any federal law, it's a recommendation by the vehicle mfgrs. in the states. Some Canadian provinces do have GCWR/GWR laws.

 

[RCP]

Indiana goes by the weight max on the license plate for private individual plates. That is one of the things that are state-specific and might not be valid outside the state. I can plate my pickup for empty weight; get stopped hauling something heavy and are liable to receive a ticket.
The GCWR/GWR is not in any federal law, it's a recommendation by the vehicle mfgrs. in the states. Some Canadian provinces do have GCWR/GWR laws.

I think that is the part that most people miss, each state can have different rules and regulations, everything I have stated comes from my experience in Pa. It gets really interesting when I am driving in another state with my Pa license etc, what happens then? Can they say my non-commercial Class A is not valid in their state? Or that I should have DOT numbers when they are not required in Pa when I am hauling my own stuff? To be honest I hope I never have to have that discussion in some other state.

 

[Ray,IN]

I think that is the part that most people miss, each state can have different rules and regulations, everything I have stated comes from my experience in Pa. It gets really interesting when I am driving in another state with my Pa license etc, what happens then? Can they say my non-commercial Class A is not valid in their state? Or that I should have DOT numbers when they are not required in Pa when I am hauling my own stuff? To be honest I hope I never have to have that discussion in some other state.

Drivers license and vehicle insurance is reciprocal in all 50 states and the D of C. That are the only things concerning driving in the U.S.A. that are valid in all of the U.S.A. and Canada. In fact one New England state has a law requiring all motorhomes to stop at scales, however it is not enforced per residents owning MH's.
reference: https://airsafehitches.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/TrailerTowingLaws.pdf

 

[showcrop]

I did have one disagreement with the examiner; we went down a hill that had signs that said Trucks over 21,000# 20 MPH. He failed me because I was going 35 MPH, I explained that my truck/trailer weighs 15,000# when empty and therefore I was not obligated to stay below 20 MPH only the 40 MPH general speed limit. He said I was wrong that it was based on GCWR. I researched the rules and have an email confirmation PennDOT, the rule is based on your actual weight not your GCWR. Unfortunately, there is no appeal process, so I had to take the test again. Rather than argue with the examiner (same guy), I went down the hill at 15 MPH. The driving test is tracked by an I-pad that identifies mistakes, so arguing with the examiner was not going to change anything, so I saved my breath. FWIW, many Class A vehicles weigh over 21,000# empty, so they would be restricted to 20 MPH.

inspectors will crawl under your truck on a creeper, but they are not going to climb up onto your truck to verify your degree of lading. This applies in a number of different scenarios. One I can think of is spring road bans. Enforcement officers won't climb your truck or stick your tank or call in a portable scale, they will look at your data plate.

 

[RCP]

inspectors will crawl under your truck on a creeper, but they are not going to climb up onto your truck to verify your degree of lading. This applies in a number of different scenarios. One I can think of is spring road bans. Enforcement officers won't climb your truck or stick your tank or call in a portable scale, they will look at your data plate.

I do not understand your comment

 

[psimmer]

For years there have discussions/arguments on which driver's license endorsements are needed in PA to use a 3/4-ton pickup and a gooseneck trailer to haul our pulling tractors. These are the rules as I copied them from the PennDOT website.

CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed have a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Example: A truck, with a GCWR of 28,000 pounds towing a vehicle or trailer with a GVWR of 11,000 pounds. The driver of the vehicle must have a Class A driver’s license to operate this vehicle.

I am not a lawyer or a police officer and there maybe exceptions to this rule, and I am sure many of us have been using a Class C license for years with no issues. But I decided to become legal. I passed the driver's test for non-commercial class A endorsement. I am now legal to haul my own equipment on my own truck and trailer. My truck has a GVWR of 10,000# and the trailer has a GVWR of 17,900#, which makes the GCWR of 27,900#. Therefore, I needed the Class A license to be legal. BTW what counts is what is on the title for the truck and trailer for GCWR, not what the rating is on the license plates on the vehicles.

For more information here is a link to the PennDOT page.

https://www.pa.gov/.../bdl/bdl-fact-sheets/fs-ncab.pdf

Keep on trucking.

I have had a CDL A with tanker endorsement since the inception. I worked for the State of Michigan as a Wildland Firefighter, and we were required to obtain them once they became law. As a Emergency Responder we technically didn't need them, but using the same transport unit for another use it did. Since I retired, I have been working for an orchard and haul cherries, apples, etc. Last November when I went in for my CDL Medical Card, the Doc or PA giving the test detected a heart murmur which I have had. My Primary Doc and Cardiologist are both aware of it. Between that, and my White Coat BP issue, she wouldn't issue the card. Wanted me to have an Echocardiogram and also a letter from Cardiologist saying I could obtain the card. Interestingly, just prior to going in for the physical, I became aware of a CDL F endorsement which allows a CDL driver to haul ag products within a 150 mile radius without a medical card. The next day I went to the Secretary of State to find out about it. Sure enough, I was able to drop down to the CDL F without a required Medical Card Physical every year. And was told I have two years to go back to the regular CDL A if I obtain a Medical Card. Doubt if that will happen. The only thing I have hauled for years is ag related products. Now, this CDL F thing really doesn't make much sense to me, but I will take it. If I use the same truck and haul fruit I am fine, if I were to load it with toilet paper or something I would be in violation without the required medical card. I don't know if this a Federal thing or a State of Michigan thing, but it works for me.

 

[Welding man]

We have a CDL exemption for Agriculture in my state. You can haul any farm equipment, farm product, fertilizer, cattle, etc. 150 miles to or from the farm. No medical card, no test, and no cost. Good for 5 years and up to 80,000 GVW.

 

[showcrop]

I have had a CDL A with tanker endorsement since the inception. I worked for the State of Michigan as a Wildland Firefighter, and we were required to obtain them once they became law. As a Emergency Responder we technically didn't need them, but using the same transport unit for another use it did. Since I retired, I have been working for an orchard and haul cherries, apples, etc. Last November when I went in for my CDL Medical Card, the Doc or PA giving the test detected a heart murmur which I have had. My Primary Doc and Cardiologist are both aware of it. Between that, and my White Coat BP issue, she wouldn't issue the card. Wanted me to have an Echocardiogram and also a letter from Cardiologist saying I could obtain the card. Interestingly, just prior to going in for the physical, I became aware of a CDL F endorsement which allows a CDL driver to haul ag products within a 150 mile radius without a medical card. The next day I went to the Secretary of State to find out about it. Sure enough, I was able to drop down to the CDL F without a required Medical Card Physical every year. And was told I have two years to go back to the regular CDL A if I obtain a Medical Card. Doubt if that will happen. The only thing I have hauled for years is ag related products. Now, this CDL F thing really doesn't make much sense to me, but I will take it. If I use the same truck and haul fruit I am fine, if I were to load it with toilet paper or something I would be in violation without the required medical card. I don't know if this a Federal thing or a State of Michigan thing, but it works for me.

NH has a similar law. There is a 150 mile radius restriction.

 

[RCP]

NH has a similar law. There is a 150 mile radius restriction.

Since the states are not consistent, it drives a lot of confusion on what is legal and what is not. Pa has exemptions for hauling produce and farm equipment, provided the truck and trailer are owned by the driver/farmer. I don't know how that works when the vehicle and contents are owned by a corporate farm and the driver works for the corporate farm. Most of the farms in our area have been set up as corporations and the family works for the corporation. Although I do not know of anyone hauling farm stuff that has been stopped.

In my case my tractor is obviously a pulling tractor and not for farming, plus I do travel out of state, so I opted to get my Class A license.

Farm Vehicles

Farm Vehicles

www.pa.gov

 

[Welding man]

My argument probably would not hold up in a court of law, but I have never been stopped, as the DOT does not work on week ends unless there has been an accident. I take my tractors to tractor pulls. A tractor is farm machinery. Our law says, transportation to or from the farm. If I am going it is from the farm, if I am returning to the farm. My tractors can pull a disc or a hay wagon or a pulling sled. Is it against the law for a farmer to have a hobby? We have some guys that haul their tractors with antique road tractors. B Model Macks etc. with antique plates and no CDL. are they legal? It all depends on who you ask and who stops you.

 

[m16ty]

Here is another twist, if you ever make a dime at winning a tractor pull technically you are commercial. That is the federal law. That opens up a whole can of worms, luckily I haven’t heard of them going after tractor pullers yet.

The Feds got after people hauling race cars a few years ago. It really put a bind on NASCAR because their drivers now have to follow hours-of-service regs and it was hard for them to make the race schedule with just 1 driver.

 

[m16ty]

W@hen I went to get my combination license after having a CDL with hazmat, tank, and air, for probably 40 years, I went with my SRW F-350, and 22,400 tandem dual. There were other candidates and their chauffeurs there, with various heavy trucks and trailers, and there were many declarations that you can't test for a combination CDL with a pick-up truck. When my turn came the examiner checked the data plates on my truck and trailer and off we went.

Maybe so, but you had an air brake restriction and likely an auto trans restriction (unless your truck was a manual).