Old barn foundation repair

[bc]

Hello guys. Have the old barn foundation that has shifted years ago. It was a poured stem wall between 1' to 2' deep that has broke and shifted years ago. Dry rot, wet rot, and termites have taken care of part of stud wall.

Whenever I get the backhoe going my plan is to pour a new stem wall along the outside below frost depth with a footing below to reinforce and rebuild the barn wall and level the barn. Or just take the old one out and put in a new one below.

Right now I want to move some hay in where the sliding door is and then temporarily put up some plywood to seal the opening for the winter. Then later put in some hinged doors when the foundation work is done.

Pics are below. Opening is 7'4" wide. First problem is trying to figure out how to lay a treated sill plate about 12' long and seal it against the irregular surface of the shifted foundation. It is high in the middle and the corners have sunk low.

I appreciate any ideas on a temporary door seal and a permanent repair. Thanks.

 

[stevieb49829]

Put a treated sill plate along level, anchor it with shims under it and tapcon's into the high spots. Then fill with expanding foam underneath, to seal it up. When you get to the point of new concrete work, pull the tapcons, and the sill plate. You may have to hammer and chisel some of the existing concrete to make a good flat run and reduce the big open spaces. steve

 

[JOCCO]

Could you use a hammer drill, small jack hammer to take the high spots down? Could you form up and put a cement cap on the old cement leveling it out? I have had to do both on old buildings.

 

[Janicholson]

I would cut the entire bottom off of the existing door just at the bottom of the lower girt. This would eliminate a patchy bottom edge. next I would rent a demo concrete saw and use a laser level to make a line across the hump in the existing concrete. Then demo saw in notches down to that line at 1 inch intervals. I would then break out the standing fingers to level the threshold as much as desired. Then build a bottom for the door from 3/4 CDX (or better) and put a glued and screwed overlapping plywood along the joint to hold the new bottom in place. That would be about 5 inches wide to lap both the existing door bottom and the new repair plywood. Jim

 

[showcrop]

I have been doing this sort of work on both my 1867 house and barn. Your situation looks a whole lot easier. I wouldn't worry much about temporary if I were going to go at the permanent next year. I would jack one long wall up by 16 inches or so. From just the two pictures it is impossible to tell exactly where to jack, but you have it easy having ground on both sides of the wall. So put together your support timbers in pairs inside and out with bearing points to place jacks, at least four, then jack it up. You will crib up to bearing points, leaving access to dig out the old foundation, and install new. With one side done you lower the wall onto the new level sill, then go over to the other side and repeat.

 

[560Dennis]

Take care of the water problem , with proper drainage alone With out it problem will return

 

[bc]

Thanks. Got to look at it some more after moving some hay in. I got some more ideas here. Basically I don't think that foundation has moved much in the 40 plus years I've been around there. Maybe it doesn't need to be replaced but pour in some support pillars. I think it can be smoothed down as suggested with the gaps filled in. Once I get a smooth surface with a grinder and a saw then I can get a decent sill plate in. Then I can cut some new studs in to length to get the wall back to level and sister them in under the floor joists for the loft. When they built it they didn't put up a first floor stud wall to put the floor on. Basically balloon framed all the way up the side with the loft floor joists nailed into the side of the studs. I'll probably go back with 2x6" studs to support the loft floor. I guess I want to move that doorway down to the end. Just needs to be wide enough to get a 6' loader bucket in there to move in a 6' round bale for feeding.

I've tried jacking the wall up before but it has settled enough it doesn't move much. Both corners are a few inches low according to the laser level. The west wall had a shed attached and it didn't settle much and is only about 1.5" out of level with the ends lower also. Haven't tried to jack up the corners cause then I'd have to deal with those walls to.

 

[Mule Meat]

Just suggesting a tool that may be some help. Concrete chainsaw. They can be handy for taking down high spots, cutting slots to place jacks, removing bad sections of foundations or walls.

May find a rental place to rent one for the saw and chains are not cheap to buy.

Highly suggest one like an ICS brand that has a water hose connector to keep down dust.

 

[caterpillar guy]

We just lay a board on edge along the floor inside the door then shut door. With the door secured the board just set there against the door pinch by the wall and pretty well seals out the snow and cold if you need to you could just cut a bit out of the edge to fit you heave in the middle to fit. I guess it depends on how sealed you want it if just to keep snow out this is the cheapest easiest way if sealing to heat then it becomes more involved.

 

[DanielW]

I'm sure I'll catch heck for this as this isn't the 'proper' methodology. But what about bracing the wall so you can cut off the bottom 12" or so off the whole wall, put a new sill plate on the wall 6" higher up, then pour a new concrete sill 6" high by, say, 12" wide right over the existing concrete. If the concrete hasn't moved much as you say in your last post, it'll probably be just fine for the rest of that barn's life, and keep the wall elevated off the ground and sealed up. Then just pour a ramp on a slight incline on the outside to get in and on a slight decline on the inside, feathering into the existing slab on the inside. Far easier than hacking apart that old foundation, and at least that way your existing 1' deep sill wall will remain continuous.

As soon as you cut out that old foundation to pour a new sill/footing, you're disturbing new soil and have to worry about compaction of the sub-base, etc. Plus a heck of a lot of cutting and jackhammering. If the existing sill wall is 1' deep as you say, I wouldn't worry about it not being below frost depth as long as you control the water issue (which you're going to have to do anyway). Lots of slab-on-grade barns, buildings, and cabins are doing just fine even up here with our colder Canadian winters where frost-heave is always a big concern. As long as it's well drained, pouring a sufficiently wide, 6" high extension on top of that existing slab will still outlive the rest of the barn and ensure the whole wall is decently elevated off the ground. And the 6" high concrete step wall will stop any moisture/snow getting in better than any PT sill plate.

 

[bc]

Had a couple nights of above freezing temperatures so I got phase one done which was level 7 feet of foundation on the south side next to the southeast corner where it was low. Formed up on the inside set with a 3 way laser level using 3 bags of low slump quikcrete and a floating board on the outside. 4th bag was mixed wetter with a higher slump to finish off the last inch on the top.

The foundation there and on the east kinda rolled out and dropped down. Had to get the southeast corner up to the same grade as the middle part one the east where the sliding door is as shown in the photos in the previous post. Had to add concrete on the inside because the old foundation and wall rolled outward.

Plan for this weekend when we have a night above freezing is to do the same for two thirds of the east wall. Where the gap in the foundation is also a low spot so it will get a 4" drain pipe and some rebar reinforcement.

The 3 way laser with plumb Bob works well for getting a straight line foundation and brings the wall back into a straight line and plumb up and down.

Once I get a new sill plate in, then I can jack up the wall to the right height and cut new studs to fit.

 

[used red MN]

Looking good I would say!

 

[caterpillar guy]

I'd use some 6x6 or 8x8 for the verticals. they will be less wiggly than 2x nailed together for a vertical. Also will hold the top timber better. 25x tends to bow when weight is added to the top ends. Timbers don't the reason for the 6 or 8 x .

 

[showcrop]

It looks like the lower part of your mix may be tto dry for it to hold up well. When placing 'crete over old like that you want to wet the old down well just prior to placing your new, so that it doesn't pull moisture out of the new

 

[Duner Wi]

Thanks for the update.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Hello guys. Have the old barn foundation that has shifted years ago. It was a poured stem wall between 1' to 2' deep that has broke and shifted years ago. Dry rot, wet rot, and termites have taken care of part of stud wall.

Whenever I get the backhoe going my plan is to pour a new stem wall along the outside below frost depth with a footing below to reinforce and rebuild the barn wall and level the barn. Or just take the old one out and put in a new one below.

Right now I want to move some hay in where the sliding door is and then temporarily put up some plywood to seal the opening for the winter. Then later put in some hinged doors when the foundation work is done.

Pics are below. Opening is 7'4" wide. First problem is trying to figure out how to lay a treated sill plate about 12' long and seal it against the irregular surface of the shifted foundation. It is high in the middle and the corners have sunk low.

I appreciate any ideas on a temporary door seal and a permanent repair. Thanks.

View attachment 91902=full]91903[/ATTACH]

About 10 years ago my friend bought this barn built in 1911. The east side of this barn was falling down.The foundation was crap and the wood was eaten by power post Beatles. We jacked up the 70 ft long east side. Braced it. We did away with the failing foundation. Dug holes for new 4x4 support posts. I brought a load of sand and gravel in my dump trailer. I put my cement mixer in the trailer. We

Filled the holes with concrete. The 4x4 were hanging with 6 inches of clearance for the concrete to get under the posts. We saved the barn from setting any more.I would use a backhoe and remove your foundation Your problem may be water related. No rain gutters on your barn. The wet ground gave away and now you end up with a failing foundation and decaying wood.

 

[showcrop]

About 10 years ago my friend bought this barn built in 1911. The east side of this barn was falling down.The foundation was crap and the wood was eaten by power post Beatles. We jacked up the 70 ft long east side. Braced it. We did away with the failing foundation. Dug holes for new 4x4 support posts. I brought a load of sand and gravel in my dump trailer. I put my cement mixer in the trailer. We View attachment 96859View attachment 96860View attachment 96862View attachment 96863Filled the holes with concrete. The 4x4 were hanging with 6 inches of clearance for the concrete to get under the posts. We saved the barn from setting any more.I would use a backhoe and remove your foundation Your problem may be water related. No rain gutters on your barn. The wet ground gave away and now you end up with a failing foundation and decaying wood.

Even though I have gutters on 1/3 of the eaves of my 150 year old house, I would not have them If I had a choice. My modern 2000 sq ft shop building has no need for gutters due to proper site design.

 

[bc]

About 10 years ago my friend bought this barn built in 1911. The east side of this barn was falling down.The foundation was crap and the wood was eaten by power post Beatles. We jacked up the 70 ft long east side. Braced it. We did away with the failing foundation. Dug holes for new 4x4 support posts. I brought a load of sand and gravel in my dump trailer. I put my cement mixer in the trailer. We View attachment 96859View attachment 96860View attachment 96862View attachment 96863Filled the holes with concrete. The 4x4 were hanging with 6 inches of clearance for the concrete to get under the posts. We saved the barn from setting any more.I would use a backhoe and remove your foundation Your problem may be water related. No rain gutters on your barn. The wet ground gave away and now you end up with a failing foundation and decaying wood.

I'm not sure I would have tried that but a pole barn is doable with a post hole digger.

I put in some drain tile on the other side for the drainage. I have old gutters from the house to put on. The broken foundation hasn't moved in the almost 50 years I have been around it.

That barn was built with studs that were milled at a standard 1 and 5/8" thick and 3 and 5/8" wide so that puts it from 1906 to the 1960s. I think it was built around 1946 and was built where a prior barn was with a loose rock foundation of Dakota sandstone. But I can't rule out that the foundation was built up to 40 years prior to that.

 

[cleddy]

Since we are on the subject of concrete repair and not total replacement I have a question about repairing a old very old cistern concrete top. It about 20 feet deep and old style where the top is 20-24" dia and the bottom is 60-72" dia. The Cistern seems to be in good shape but the concrete top has cracked and settled 2-3" on two corners from apparently heavy rain and maybe overflow from the cistern over the years. It should be totally replaced but not sure of the stability of the surrounding ground & Cost. I am thinking of making a angle iron frame with rebar for a permanent form and pouring a thin layer (2-4") over the whole top and sides. I want a solid steel base to anchor a full size-decorative windmill and collect roof water and pump it for garden watering?? Would this work and hold up for my life span and I am 71 years old now???

 

[bc]

Since we are on the subject of concrete repair and not total replacement I have a question about repairing a old very old cistern concrete top. It about 20 feet deep and old style where the top is 20-24" dia and the bottom is 60-72" dia. The Cistern seems to be in good shape but the concrete top has cracked and settled 2-3" on two corners from apparently heavy rain and maybe overflow from the cistern over the years. It should be totally replaced but not sure of the stability of the surrounding ground & Cost. I am thinking of making a angle iron frame with rebar for a permanent form and pouring a thin layer (2-4") over the whole top and sides. I want a solid steel base to anchor a full size-decorative windmill and collect roof water and pump it for garden watering?? Would this work and hold up for my life span and I am 71 years old now???

I think that would be doable. Maybe use 4 6" or 8" post holes 3' deep with rebar to anchor the windmill. Wet the top of the cistern first and lay in a circle or two of rebar with 4 to 6 cross ties. After it is all set up, you could drill 4 to 6 holes through the top about the halfway point and run bolts through too help hold the top together. Use some type of backer plate on the inside as needed to support the inside. Will see what others think.