Oliver 1750 wet stacking

[Sheriff]

I am no mechanic but my Oliver keeps me learning. I had the cylinder head on my 1750 overhauled and while I was putting it back together, installed new injectors. It runs great, no more blue smoke and seems to start better (will have to wait for cold weather to know for sure). But, now it is wet stacking. I checked the fuel pump timing and it is right on the money. Four degrees before TDC. I also pulled the exhaust manifold and all 6 cylinders seem to have about the same amount of fuel/soot...so I don't THINK it is one or two of the injectors.

By the way, this will always be a light-duty tractor so there will be little heavy duty pulling or PTO work.

Reading these posts, it isn't clear to me if "working it hard for a few hours" might cure the problem (seat the valves maybe?) or just be a temporary fix until the fuel/soot mixture needs to be burned off again?

I see one comment indicating running it at PTO RPM for a couple of hours might be a substitute for "working it hard". Opinions on that?

Finally, is there a way to turn down the fuel pump (reduce the horsepower) to solve wet stacking in a tractor that will be light-duty most of the time?

Thank you for reading my post.

 

[buzzinduzzin]

IF everything is up to par then wet stacking is a result of not enough load and or rpm on engine . Bringing the rpm up should stop the wet stacking even if you are not loading engine very heavy. turning down fuel delivery won't help because injection pump will only deliver the amount of fuel required to maintain selected rpm . Even new injectors need to be checked before installing . Last but not least : I had a 2255 Oliver with a 3208 Cat that was wet stacking , I called the local Fabik guy & he said " heat it up ". So a 28' disc at about 5" cut stopped the wet stack !!

 

[Dieseltech]

Turning the pump max fuel setting down WON’T help. Wet stacking is a common problem with LIGHT load Diesel engines. I’d make sure you have a good working thermostat, 195 degrees would not hurt.

 

[Adam from WI]

Any supposed fix will likely be temporary. Cool ambient temperatures and lots of idling and light loads will exacerbate the issue. All the old diesels used here do the same thing unless you work the snot out of them. They're just not designed with hobby farming in mind. If it's that bothersome, trade for one with spark plugs.

 

[rustred]

you need to keep the temp. right up and even cover the rad in winter. wet stacking is also a sign of low compression. do not idle under 900-1000 rpm! and if its not a work tractor then keep the rad covered . some tractor models wet stack more than others. ihc is not known for wet stacking. while the detroits that is a normal thing. is that a perkins or wakasha engine.

 

[used red MN]

As far as working it hard to illeviate this problem this will not happen. Light load and low rpm’s will probably always make it go back to this. New piston rings can “seat in” valves are “seated” when the “grinding” or resurfacing is completed. In fact right after being ground is when they are at their highest “seating seal” Then when put in service they constantly lose there sealing effectiveness. Might quiz the guy that did the head work, ask him if he check/set the valve installed height to be at the proper spec. If the valves were ground and the valve height is “sucked up” in the head to far, this will drop the compression which can lead to hard starting problems and encourage wet stacking.

 

[showcrop]

Take up pulling competition.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

IF everything is up to par then wet stacking is a result of not enough load and or rpm on engine . Bringing the rpm up should stop the wet stacking even if you are not loading engine very heavy. turning down fuel delivery won't help because injection pump will only deliver the amount of fuel required to maintain selected rpm . Even new injectors need to be checked before installing . Last but not least : I had a 2255 Oliver with a 3208 Cat that was wet stacking , I called the local Fabik guy & he said " heat it up ". So a 28' disc at about 5" cut stopped the wet stack !!

Yes… new injectors DO need to be checked before installing… especially in today’s world where ostensibly reliable supply houses obtain them from third-world factories with dirt floors.

 

[Sheriff]

Thank you for the replies! Very helpful.
This tractor has a Waukesha 310.
I'll admit, I didn't check the new injectors and don't have a way to do it. Probably can find a shop around that would check them for me.
Love the tractor pull suggestion. Maybe in a few years. Ironically, this tractor pulled the sled back to the starting line in a horse pull competition for many years. That was fun and didn't have to worry about losing my hearing

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Part of finding the solution to this problem is determining if the exhaust system is really wet with fuel and not lube oil.

Engines with top keystone piston rings will often pump raw oil out the exhaust when worn out, during long idling periods. Yet, no oil can be seen burning at max output.

Whether a Waukesha 310 has keystone rings, I don’t know. Just something to consider during the troubleshooting process.

 

[Sheriff]

Quick update. I had the new injectors tested. They were all good. Then I finally came up with a pencil injector adaptor to test for compression. All six cylinders were at 195 to 205. So...since it was not wet stacking before the cylinder head was overhauled, I am guessing the valves were not set correctly as Used indicated in #6 above.

Rather than all the time and $$ required to essentially start over, I think I will put up with it (at least for a while) using your input provided above (thermostat, RPM, occasional load, etc.). Would any of you suggest otherwise? Low compression and/or wet stacking will not cause damage to the motor?

Thanks again for your input.

 

[used red MN]

Low compression and/or wet stacking will not cause damage to the motor?

The engine wear will be slightly accelerated during this type of use. The wet stacking as you probably know is unburned fuel. Since it comes out of your exhaust that also tells us it must be in the cylinders. So it is thinning/diluting the lubrication (oil) film for the pistons, rings and cylinder walls thus causing accelerated wear. Since the current uses you have for it don’t load the engine heavily, this is the nature of the beast. Not sure where you live but cold starts cause additional wear to your vehicles engine. Are you going to stop driving it because of this? Doubtful!!

 

[rustred]

Quick update. I had the new injectors tested. They were all good. Then I finally came up with a pencil injector adaptor to test for compression. All six cylinders were at 195 to 205. So...since it was not wet stacking before the cylinder head was overhauled, I am guessing the valves were not set correctly as Used indicated in #6 above.

Rather than all the time and $$ required to essentially start over, I think I will put up with it (at least for a while) using your input provided above (thermostat, RPM, occasional load, etc.). Would any of you suggest otherwise? Low compression and/or wet stacking will not cause damage to the motor?

Thanks again for your input.e

Your compression guage must be way off. A diesel engine will not run on that compression. Has to be up around 350 psi and to prevent wet stacking the engine has to be up to operating temp. Keep your idling to a minimum. Cover the rad put in 195 thermostats. And if it’s running with that low of compression that’s your biggest problem.

 

[scootergmc]

When you had your head rebuilt, did they follow the later service bulletin regarding valve protrusion?

Valve clearance should be .030/.030 if I recall correctly.

 

[RCP]

Does your adapter mimic the length and diameters of the stock injectors, if it doesn't do this correctly it can give lower than actually compression pressures. Also, if the port through the adapter is restricted it can cause lower than actual compression pressures. AT 200 psi, I do not think the engine would start without a big dose of starting fluid.

 

[Sheriff]

Thanks for the replies. Tragically I didn't know enough to quiz the tech to make sure he set the valve protrusion correctly. And he no longer works at that shop, so I can't ask him.

The tractor starts good. I ran it for a while today and once it warms up, the wet stacking is severe at 2,000 RPM. It wasn't doing this before the overhaul. Made a mess all over the new paint job. Some white/gray/light blue smoke. I didn't see much blow by unless it was idling.

So the pencil injector adapter is not quite as long as the injectors by about an inch. It is close to the same diameter as the injectors, no quite as tight. I put a rubber washer on it to seal the pressure. That makes it just a bit shorter of course, so maybe that was a mistake.

This is the test kit I purchased. The pencil injector adaptor is second from the left. Anyone have a simple way to test the compression accuracy of my kit?

Thanks again.

 

[rustred]

Thanks for the replies. Tragically I didn't know enough to quiz the tech to make sure he set the valve protrusion correctly. And he no longer works at that shop, so I can't ask him.

The tractor starts good. I ran it for a while today and once it warms up, the wet stacking is severe at 2,000 RPM. It wasn't doing this before the overhaul. Made a mess all over the new paint job. Some white/gray/light blue smoke. I didn't see much blow by unless it was idling.

So the pencil injector adapter is not quite as long as the injectors by about an inch. It is close to the same diameter as the injectors, no quite as tight. I put a rubber washer on it to seal the pressure. That makes it just a bit shorter of course, so maybe that was a mistake.

This is the test kit I purchased. The pencil injector adaptor is second from the left. Anyone have a simple way to test the compression accuracy of my kit?

Thanks again.

better try a different gauge on the that tester. i still do not believe a diesel would even start at that psi. are you cranking the engine with all injectors out and a good battery ??? its not a one at a time deal. and if you did the head that is your first problem. now its re-ring time, how much oil is this engine using.? my 1755, same engine, is going through a gallon a day and its starts reasonably well. its tear down time for it this winter. and it does not wet stack. you have a compression problem for sure.

 

[300jk]

I am no mechanic but my Oliver keeps me learning. I had the cylinder head on my 1750 overhauled and while I was putting it back together, installed new injectors. It runs great, no more blue smoke and seems to start better (will have to wait for cold weather to know for sure). But, now it is wet stacking. I checked the fuel pump timing and it is right on the money. Four degrees before TDC. I also pulled the exhaust manifold and all 6 cylinders seem to have about the same amount of fuel/soot...so I don't THINK it is one or two of the injectors.

By the way, this will always be a light-duty tractor so there will be little heavy duty pulling or PTO work.

Reading these posts, it isn't clear to me if "working it hard for a few hours" might cure the problem (seat the valves maybe?) or just be a temporary fix until the fuel/soot mixture needs to be burned off again?

I see one comment indicating running it at PTO RPM for a couple of hours might be a substitute for "working it hard". Opinions on that?

Finally, is there a way to turn down the fuel pump (reduce the horsepower) to solve wet stacking in a tractor that will be light-duty most of the time?

Thank you for reading my post.

I am no mechanic but my Oliver keeps me learning. I had the cylinder head on my 1750 overhauled and while I was putting it back together, installed new injectors. It runs great, no more blue smoke and seems to start better (will have to wait for cold weather to know for sure). But, now it is wet stacking. I checked the fuel pump timing and it is right on the money. Four degrees before TDC. I also pulled the exhaust manifold and all 6 cylinders seem to have about the same amount of fuel/soot...so I don't THINK it is one or two of the injectors.

By the way, this will always be a light-duty tractor so there will be little heavy duty pulling or PTO work.

Reading these posts, it isn't clear to me if "working it hard for a few hours" might cure the problem (seat the valves maybe?) or just be a temporary fix until the fuel/soot mixture needs to be burned off again?

I see one comment indicating running it at PTO RPM for a couple of hours might be a substitute for "working it hard". Opinions on that?

Finally, is there a way to turn down the fuel pump (reduce the horsepower) to solve wet stacking in a tractor that will be light-duty most of the time?

Thank you for reading my post.

We have a 1750 that is turbocharged, has oil cooler, has been overhauled, and has the updates. We have never had a wet stacking issue. Tractor does no tillage or heavy work. The hardest it works is making 6x5 round bales. Only thing it does is run a 479 New Holland haybine and the baler. Doesn’t use a drop of oil between changes. Maybe 1000 hours on overhaul. Probably more I would have to check the book. I may get poo pooed for saying this. I never run that tractor at pto speed for haying. Tractor and equipment seem to work just fine around 2000-2200 rpm. Pto is 2400. Any raking or light work is done around 1600 rpm. Just gear up and throttle back. Sure hope you figure out your issue. They are a good tractor.

 

[rustred]

you got it! gear up throttle back, why run an engine at max rpm with no load ,.. i do the same. quite easy to figure out his problem , low compression wont burn diesel fuel. it takes heat.

 

[super99]

I am no mechanic but my Oliver keeps me learning. I had the cylinder head on my 1750 overhauled and while I was putting it back together, installed new injectors. It runs great, no more blue smoke and seems to start better (will have to wait for cold weather to know for sure). But, now it is wet stacking. I checked the fuel pump timing and it is right on the money. Four degrees before TDC. I also pulled the exhaust manifold and all 6 cylinders seem to have about the same amount of fuel/soot...so I don't THINK it is one or two of the injectors.

By the way, this will always be a light-duty tractor so there will be little heavy duty pulling or PTO work.

Reading these posts, it isn't clear to me if "working it hard for a few hours" might cure the problem (seat the valves maybe?) or just be a temporary fix until the fuel/soot mixture needs to be burned off again?

I see one comment indicating running it at PTO RPM for a couple of hours might be a substitute for "working it hard". Opinions on that?

Finally, is there a way to turn down the fuel pump (reduce the horsepower) to solve wet stacking in a tractor that will be light-duty most of the time?

Thank you for reading my post.

Why did you have the head reworked, what was the problem? Did you do it yourself or have it done? What did the cylinders look like, did you try to move the pistons sideways to see how they fit in the bores?