Oliver 1850 IP reseal?

[mogman]

How hard is it to replace the injection pump input shaft seal on the Perkins in the 1850, does the pump need to be completely disassembled?
I am getting diesel in the oil, if running is gets some but if I leave the fuel cock on it will fill the crankcase after a week or so of sitting.
If I close the petcock after about a week it is very hard to get it started.
THANKS

 

[scootergmc]

Does it have the mechanical lift pump? If so, it's likely the fuel is leaking into the case from the mechanical pump. I'd eliminate that before moving to the injection pump. Perhaps you already did.

 

[mogman]

No but I figure if it was the lift pump there would still be fuel in the IP after closing the petcock as it would only drain down to the lift pump, it then should start even if it did immediately die from air in the lines, it never tries to start.
I do plan on changing the lift pump, this is getting very expensive.

Does it have the mechanical lift pump? If so, it's likely the fuel is leaking into the case from the mechanical pump. I'd eliminate that before moving to the injection pump. Perhaps you already did.

 

[scootergmc]

No but I figure if it was the lift pump there would still be fuel in the IP after closing the petcock as it would only drain down to the lift pump, it then should start even if it did immediately die from air in the lines, it never tries to start.
I do plan on changing the lift pump, this is getting very expensive.

I send our pumps to Dieseltech if he's willing to work on them (usually PSBs). Dunno what he would charge for a CAV but I feel his prices are very reasonable for quality service.

If you want to tackle it yourself here's what you're getting into. He has a series of CAV videos, starting with this one:

 

[mogman]

I send our pumps to Dieseltech if he's willing to work on them (usually PSBs). Dunno what he would charge for a CAV but I feel his prices are very reasonable for quality service.

If you want to tackle it yourself here's what you're getting into. He has a series of CAV videos, starting with this one:

I have seen that, and that would be a little different than the IP on this Perkins, in that video that drive "hub" that the gear bolts to has a screw in it and removing that screw allows the hub to be removed giving access to the seal, they are doing a full reseal but I wonder if the seal is accessible without disassembling the entire pump, If after rebuilding the lift pump I still have the problem and it does require disassembling the entire pump I will have to do it myself as rebuild services for IP's are crazy high, I have learned how to build the Roosamaster pumps for this reason, doubt the CAV would be a huge challenge.

 

[scootergmc]

I have seen that, and that would be a little different than the IP on this Perkins, in that video that drive "hub" that the gear bolts to has a screw in it and removing that screw allows the hub to be removed giving access to the seal, they are doing a full reseal but I wonder if the seal is accessible without disassembling the entire pump, If after rebuilding the lift pump I still have the problem and it does require disassembling the entire pump I will have to do it myself as rebuild services for IP's are crazy high, I have learned how to build the Roosamaster pumps for this reason, doubt the CAV would be a huge challenge.

Dieseltech is not crazy high. He's very fair and reasonable and the pump will be recalibrated correctly. I'd check with him.

 

[mogman]

Dieseltech is not crazy high. He's very fair and reasonable and the pump will be recalibrated correctly. I'd check with him.

Are you talking about the shop in Baytown TX? that is a VERY common name

 

[scootergmc]

Sorry, no, I'm talking about member 'Dieseltech' on this forum. He's out of Indiana I believe, works out of his home. Send him a message through the forum.

 

[mogman]

I watched the videos and on the second one he does say the seal can be replaced without dissembling the entire unit but heck that IP is easier to do than the Roosamaster so I would do the entire re-seal just to be sure.
On removing the IP, I did see one reference to removing the three nuts from the pump itself, but it looks like it would be easier to remove the pump with the steel flange under the pump as the nuts look to be much easier to access.
EDIT, after looking at it again it might not be too bad once all the other stuff is out of the way

 

[Dieseltech]

Depends if the pump is the original small hub/quill shaft drive or the later Uprate drive pump that SOME 1850s had engines repaired with, similar to the 2/85 and 2/105 engines have. The early quill drive are known for shaft/ hub damage over time and why the Uprate drive pump is the better choice of engine upgrade.

 

[Ken Grimm]

No but I figure if it was the lift pump there would still be fuel in the IP after closing the petcock as it would only drain down to the lift pump, it then should start even if it did immediately die from air in the lines, it never tries to start.
I do plan on changing the lift pump, this is getting very expensive.

Before you try and start it crack the line at the injection pump and see if you have fuel there. It could bleed back to the primer pump if the diaphram is bad in it and leaking. I new primer pump is very reasonable.

 

[mogman]

I have a kit to install in the lift pump, I will bleed the system and start it just for a minute or so, then mark the oil level and wait and see if it takes any more diesel in the pan, I have steering parts that will not be here until the first week of next month so I have some time to kill.
I also have an 1850 with a stuck engine, unfortunately for some reason someone had loosened the injector lines at the IP, so I will be pulling that IP and seeing if it is a candidate for re-sealing as I also have a seal kit coming, that way I will have one ready to install.

 

[mogman]

I pulled the lift pump, there was absolutely no diesel there, there also was no diesel at the case drain on the IP, I don't think the lift pump would have siphoned the fuel all the way to that point, still betting on an IP issue, but will try the lift pump flooded to see if the level gets higher in the crankcase after rebuilding the lift pump.

 

[scootergmc]

Do you even have fuel to the lift pump?

 

[mogman]

Do you even have fuel to the lift pump?

Oh yes, I have fuel all the way to the crankcase.

 

[scootergmc]

Then I have to stand by my original internet diagnosis. Since there's fuel to it, nothing past, and fuel filling the crankcase, your lift pump is the issue. 99% of the time that's the problem.

 

[mogman]

So I built the lift pump, the diaphragm did have a couple suspicious spots but two other things also caught my attention.
First is one of the valves (discharge) was well out of place, this explains why it was almost impossible to prime the system, that pump was no doing squat.
Second is there is a ton of slop in the leaver to axle fit, this is allowing the leaver to kick over to one side and is wearing unevenly on the contact surface.
If I weren't so lazy I would bush the lever and machine a new axle, but I will just order a new one.
Meanwhile I put the system back together, primed it up (amazing how fast with a working lift pump)
I left the petcock open and scribed a mark on the dipstick for the current level and we will check it every day for a few days...

 

[mogman]

Then I have to stand by my original internet diagnosis. Since there's fuel to it, nothing past, and fuel filling the crankcase, your lift pump is the issue. 99% of the time that's the problem.

You certainly could be right, that is why I rebuilt the lift pump. by far the easiest and cheapest thing to eliminate.
We will see in a few days..

 

[scootergmc]

So I built the lift pump, the diaphragm did have a couple suspicious spots but two other things also caught my attention.
First is one of the valves (discharge) was well out of place, this explains why it was almost impossible to prime the system, that pump was no doing squat.
Second is there is a ton of slop in the leaver to axle fit, this is allowing the leaver to kick over to one side and is wearing unevenly on the contact surface.
If I weren't so lazy I would bush the lever and machine a new axle, but I will just order a new one.
Meanwhile I put the system back together, primed it up (amazing how fast with a working lift pump)
I left the petcock open and scribed a mark on the dipstick for the current level and we will check it every day for a few days...

Good news. Now crank it, bleed it, and go to work! Good times.

 

[mogman]

Good news. Now crank it, bleed it, and go to work! Good times.

Well I have to wait on parts to fix the PS line so I will let it sit a few days with the petcock open and see if it dumps any more fuel into the crankcase before investing in changing the contaminated oil, that stuff is getting expensive.