On to Timing I guess

[TJ64]

Late 8n Moving forward. Governor-new, carb-new, points&condenser-new...tractor starts and idles like a sewing machine. Give it some throttle, I get 900 rpm or so and then pops,farts, starts to die. Pull the throttle back and idles beautifully. I can put it in gear and move around a bit...at idle.
Looking things over I have discover more things I don't like. The distributor does NOT have the terminal for the coil wire, instead the coil wire comes up from under the distributor and connects to the points with the same screw as the condenser. I guess I should add that to my next order. Also, distributor is NOT lined up like the book says. With #1 at TDC the rotor points at the left corner of the radiator NOT the head bolt ( 90degrees off) I don't think this is a huge deal, as it IS pointing at the terminal that goes to #1 spark plug wire. I would just like to have it correct, so I'm pulling the distributor and resetting the whole shooting match. I am now wondering if the P.O. had any manuals at all? I am also thinking that maybe my issue has something to do with the flyweights. Which is the other reason I'm pulling dist.....to clean it up and see what might be wrong there...any other thoughts as to what it might be?

 

[Powered By IH]

Yes, definitely check the flyweights. Most likely rusted/seized up.

 

[used red MN]

Late 8n Moving forward. Governor-new, carb-new, points&condenser-new...tractor starts and idles like a sewing machine. Give it some throttle, I get 900 rpm or so and then pops,farts, starts to die. Pull the throttle back and idles beautifully. I can put it in gear and move around a bit...at idle.
Looking things over I have discover more things I don't like. The distributor does NOT have the terminal for the coil wire, instead the coil wire comes up from under the distributor and connects to the points with the same screw as the condenser. I guess I should add that to my next order. Also, distributor is NOT lined up like the book says. With #1 at TDC the rotor points at the left corner of the radiator NOT the head bolt ( 90degrees off) I don't think this is a huge deal, as it IS pointing at the terminal that goes to #1 spark plug wire. I would just like to have it correct, so I'm pulling the distributor and resetting the whole shooting match. I am now wondering if the P.O. had any manuals at all? I am also thinking that maybe my issue has something to do with the flyweights. Which is the other reason I'm pulling dist.....to clean it up and see what might be wrong there...any other thoughts as to what it might be?

Not sure why you didn’t keep this all in one thread. Same tractor, still not running correctly…all the same subject in my world. This way one wouldn’t have to go back to another thread to see where “you say” you have been.
In your governor thread you say
“I went to the barn and got the other NEW carb that came with it. Set both screws one turn out, installed it...Tractor started up without the choke, will idle ALL day @ 450 and sounds like a sewing machine Nice and smooth. Dont try to give it any throttle though :/ it starts to sputter at around 900RPM. Now going to look at the points I guess….”
Okay I’m not a Ford guy maybe someone will correct this if this is incorrect. Is one turn out on the main jet the “end all” setting for an 8N carb? I really think that is an “initial setting” to be adjusted when the tractor is running. What does it do when you turn it out 2 turns? 2 1/2? 3?

 

[Jim.ME]

On Marvel Schebler TSX carbs I usually turn the main (load) jet out about 1-1/2 turns and the idle mixture jet out about 1-1/4 turns as initial settings and adjust from there once running. I think the idle mixture screw on an 8N carb controls air so that turning it in enriches the idle mixture and turning it out leans the idle mixture. If that is wrong one, of the Ford guys will let us know.

 

[Powered By IH]

I think the idle mixture screw on an 8N carb controls air so that turning it in enriches the idle mixture and turning it out leans the idle mixture. If that is wrong one, of the Ford guys will let us know.

You are correct.

 

[TJ64]

Not sure why you didn’t keep this all in one thread. Same tractor, still not running correctly…all the same subject in my world. This way one wouldn’t have to go back to another thread to see where “you say” you have been.
In your governor thread you say
“I went to the barn and got the other NEW carb that came with it. Set both screws one turn out, installed it...Tractor started up without the choke, will idle ALL day @ 450 and sounds like a sewing machine Nice and smooth. Dont try to give it any throttle though :/ it starts to sputter at around 900RPM. Now going to look at the points I guess….”
Okay I’m not a Ford guy maybe someone will correct this if this is incorrect. Is one turn out on the main jet the “end all” setting for an 8N carb? I really think that is an “initial setting” to be adjusted when the tractor is running. What does it do when you turn it out 2 turns? 2 1/2? 3?

If I turn them out further it sputters and dies. Yes , those are initial settings. I apologize for the new thread...I recon I figured the governor issue should be mute since I put the new one on. It does idle, which it never did before. It appears the gov is trying to work when I moved the tractor, even goes up and down hills and seems to be working...only at idle-around 900 rpm.

 

[used red MN]

If I turn them out further it sputters and dies.

There is an idle mixture needle valve and a main jet or “load” needle valve. In the linked diagram number 13 is the idle needle and number 20 is the main jet needle. CNHI Ford 8N carb diagram The idle needle only comes into play when the throttle plate is closed when the tractor is idling. At 900 it may be questionable if the throttle plate is closed enough for a good idle adjustment. The idle stop screw is not numbered for some reason but it has spring 26 around, it is on the moving throttle lever. You should be able to adjust that to slow the idle. If you have to push the lever towards the stop with the throttle lever as slow as it will go then there is something wrong with your linkage/governor adjustment. If that is a problem you’ll have to refer to your manual or have a Ford guy help you, maybe it was explained in your other thread. The idle needle is only adjusted (in/out) for the smoothest idle then it can be left alone. The main jet 20 is the one I was talking about that should be opened more. It should have no effect on your idle unless the throttle plate is to far open as I said above. Maybe a full turn out was overkill, I am used to IH carbs that need to have their main needle opened up more. All this info I am giving you is general carb info that applies to most brands. So what happens when you open the main jet to 1 1/4 turns? Increase it by a couple more 1/4 turn intervals? Will it rev up then?

 

[TJ64]

My brother brought over a timing light today and we confirmed that my skills with a 12v test light are still sharp. fired up and idled, timing light says exactly 4 degrees btc @ 400rpm. He said to him it sounds like the distributor isn't advancing as it should. I find that hard to believe after taking it all apart and cleaning it up smooth as a babies butt yesterday. When I put it together and spun the shaft the weights moved like they should. Everything is back together according to the book. The only odd part is that the linkage , now I know it is supposed to be 23 3/8" and I assume that means 23 5/8" when connected. ( figuring along the lines of the other one is 7" or 7 1/4" when connected, and added 1/4" for connection). That linkage is now 24 3/16" to get it all the way to the stop on the quadrant and at the end of the throw for idle @425rpm. Should I shorten it back up and see if I can fight it down to 400-450 rpm?

There is an idle mixture needle valve and a main jet or “load” needle valve. In the linked diagram number 13 is the idle needle and number 20 is the main jet needle. CNHI Ford 8N carb diagram The idle needle only comes into play when the throttle plate is closed when the tractor is idling. At 900 it may be questionable if the throttle plate is closed enough for a good idle adjustment. The idle stop screw is not numbered for some reason but it has spring 26 around, it is on the moving throttle lever. You should be able to adjust that to slow the idle. If you have to push the lever towards the stop with the throttle lever as slow as it will go then there is something wrong with your linkage/governor adjustment. If that is a problem you’ll have to refer to your manual or have a Ford guy help you, maybe it was explained in your other thread. The idle needle is only adjusted (in/out) for the smoothest idle then it can be left alone. The main jet 20 is the one I was talking about that should be opened more. It should have no effect on your idle unless the throttle plate is to far open as I said above. Maybe a full turn out was overkill, I am used to IH carbs that need to have their main needle opened up more. All this info I am giving you is general carb info that applies to most brands. So what happens when you open the main jet to 1 1/4 turns? Increase it by a couple more 1/4 turn intervals? Will it rev up then?

no, it wont. I even unhooked the gov rod and tried running the carb by hand.

 

[Jim.ME]

You should be able to see the distributor advance working if you watch the timing marks with the timing light as the engine speed is being increased.

 

[TJ64]

You should be able to see the distributor advance working if you watch the timing marks with the timing light as the engine speed is being increased.

yessir! I guess I'm gonna have to come off some money and buy another timing light. I don't get along with my brother well enough to keep borrowing his 1986 model! lol. I gave mine away in 1995 when I swore off gas engines and went all in diesel. I had that Kal-Equip timing light since 1979, should have kept it. Not because it was a great light, but because my mother built it, she worked on the soldering line for that model. Thank you for the suggestion. I may also have to replace the cam gear, I didn't think it was messed up that bad from what I saw. (the big one, not sure, but I believe the dist runs off the smaller gear on the cam?

 

[TJ64]

SHE LIVES! Duner Wi, thank you! I couldn't understand why replace a brand new condenser.....but I did and that is the END o f this chapter! put in another NEW condenser and it fired right up accelerated smooth and the governor worked flawlessly pulling the backblade full of gravel Uphill! I do have a leak at the governor/housing mating surface that I need to fix. I will do that and move on to.....new PTO (1 3/8") It leaks tranny fluid out that seal. (it doesn't leak if I leave the cover on) A HUGE thank-you to all who have contributed!